Poll: Should I take down Catholic items for family Thanksgiving?

[Ms_Manners]

I am a little troubled at what seems to me to be an apparent equating of religious objects to religious faith.

Not equating, but it is a way of expressing a belief. In a way it would be similar as not saying I was Catholic if asked or staying quiet while they discuss how horrible Catholics are, just to appease someone who disapproves of it.

You know, I wonder if removing the objects would even shut them up, if they would start their attacks if they saw nothing.
Usually that type will find a way to start an argument, and the very absence of those objects would do just as well, especially with the MIL’s previous comment about an idol.

 

[Ms_Manners]

To me the difference is many people find killing animals to be offensive. Taking the life of a living thing can be upsetting to many people. Even people who don’t have strong feelings about hunting can find it upsetting to have dead creatures staring at them.

That’s the thing I didn’t want to get into, to avoid going off topic.

 

[JRKH]

To me the difference is many people find killing animals to be offensive. Taking the life of a living thing can be upsetting to many people. Even people who don’t have strong feelings about hunting can find it upsetting to have dead creatures staring at them.

If anyone finds the practice and innocuous signs of a major religion offensive, the problem lies within them.

Well- that is the thing…what one finds to be “innocuous” another finds "upsetting…

I would say that in both cases the “problem lies within them” since it is really their personal beliefs and/or emotions that are in play here.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Not equating, but it is a way of expressing a belief. In a way it would be similar as not saying I was Catholic if asked or staying quiet while they discuss how horrible Catholics are, just to appease someone who disapproves of it.

Point taken…

You know, I wonder if removing the objects would even shut them up, if they would start their attacks if they saw nothing.
Usually that type will find a way to start an argument, and the very absence of those objects would do just as well, especially with the MIL’s previous comment about an idol.

Yes - and these are the things that we do not know about the situation.

The best we can hope to do is to offer some differing insights and “talking points” so that the OP and her husband can make the best decision for their particular situation.

Peace
James

 

[johnnyc176]

One more thing that comes to my mind is the message you send by removing the Catholic items from your home - if they make enough of a scene, you will cave on any principle.

Very good point. And it might lead them to believe they are making headway into her leaving the Catholic Faith and in the future they will keep trying whether the items are being displayed or hidden.

 

[Iheartcoffee]

Leave it all out. You wouldn’t walk into their home and demand they switch out Crosses for Crucifixes. It would be horribly rude for a guest in a home to make unkind comments about the decor, especially religious decor, even if they are family members.

If they say something, I would remind them that you have no desire to redecorate their home and they should be so kind as to let your home be what it is.

I would stock up on a few Lighthouse CDs at your parish that cover things like Mary, the Bible, etc. and have them available. Don’t put them out on display, just leave them in a guest room drawer with a Catholic Bible and a little note that items in the drawer are free for the taking. Make it look like you have this in your guest room at all times, not just for them. Chances are they will either ignore it or take some out of spite, but the funny thing is they will probably listen to them on the way home as something of a recon mission just because they want to know how to argue against them when they see you again! However, being Lighthouse CDs, that will mean they get to spend an hour in the car with people like Dr. Scott Hahn, so it will be good for THEM!

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I did not vote in the poll, but I think that it would be a reasonable accommodation to remove any overtly Catholic items from the guest room, as others have suggested. I don’t see any reason to remove items from the rest of the house. I also agree with those who have suggested it really should be the husband who explains the situation to his parents, instead of the OP being cast as the “bad guy” in this situation.

 

[TxGodfollower]

there’s a prayer table at the end of the hall (a candle, a crucifix, and a little bowl of holy water),

Was thinking a bit more about what you posted, Emerald, and the only thing I could possibly think about maybe changing was the prayer table. Depends on what the ‘end of the hall’ is. Is it right outside the guest room? or as they leave the guest room and turn the corner would it be right in front of them? In those kinds of instances it would be a tad insensitive, so you might want to move it to a different location.

 

[EasterJoy]

My in-laws are coming in from another state and staying with us for 4 days. They are devout Lutherans and openly anti-Catholic. Behind my back they tried to have an intervention for my husband last year when he told them he had joined RCIA. Last time they were here my mother-in-law told me to my face that a small crucifix in my van was an idol. I didn’t have any Catholic stuff out in the house the last time they were here as my husband used to be against it before his conversion so I respected that.

I am debating whether or not to take down our Catholic stuff before they get here. I know they will make snide comments and ask questions all the while not listening to my answers but waiting for me to finish explaining so they can tell me how and why I am wrong. My great-grandmother’s picture of St. Therese is hanging in the living room, there’s a prayer table at the end of the hall (a candle, a crucifix, and a little bowl of holy water), a couple other crucifixes in different rooms, a Sacred Heart of Jesus picture on the windowsill in the kitchen, a framed picture of my daughter’s First Communion, St. Joseph missals strewn around, National Catholic Register on the coffee table. It’s so weird typing this out, I never considered our home over-the-top Catholic but the more Iook around and see our house through their eyes it’s like whoa.

Part of me just wants to put it all away and not have to explain things and risk the belittlement. The other part of me worries I will hurt Jesus’ feelings because this would sort of be like denying my faith. Has anyone else faced this dilemma and what did you do? Any encouraging words or advice would be appreciated.

Lutherans have crucifixes in some of their churches. Your MIL was looking to pick a fight. Remember the caution Our Lord gave about tossing pearls before swine. It is not a betrayal of the faith to put away things that you have a reason to believe will be a near occasion of sin for others.

Ask your husband which he prefers, and do that.

 

[KCT]

Religious objects are the least of your worries. Why are these conversations even allowed in your home?

Do not reply. Change the subject. One way or another, make clear you are not going to engage in such discussions.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I’ve given this some thought because my in-laws are Lutheran and I was reminded of something that happened here once.

My daughter has a small picture of St. Therese as a little child displayed in her bedroom. My MIL asked my daughter who the girl was. To my MIL, the photo just looked like an old-fashioned picture of some sweet child who may have been a relative. (The picture fit right into our home decorating as we display similar old photos of relatives.) When my MIL asked, my daughter then told her about St. Therese. It was a lovely witness about how the saints aren’t little mini-deities to Catholics but more like older relatives in the faith.

Statues and formal paintings of the saints may look like idols to some protestants, but most Protestant have photos. An old photograph of a very cute little St. Therese displayed by my child witnessed to her Protestant grandmother how Catholics really regard the saints.

 

[Allegra]

If you want to know what I’d do, I would leave my home the way it is and if a confrontation occurs, calmly state that I’m not willing to discuss it with them, and stick to that boundary. If they refused to stop, I would not extend an invitation to them again.

However, this is a call that you have to make. I don’t see this as a moral issue. If you want to do this to avoid confrontation in your home with immature people, that’s perfectly fine too. If you want to use this as an opportunity to draw a boundary, that that’s good too.

 

[Todd977]

If your in-laws think that they themselves would be committing a sin by staying in a room that contains a crucifix or religious statue, then the right thing for you to do would be to remove the items. This would be in accord with St Paul’s advice in Romans 14:13-23 and 1 Corinthians 8, where he says he would rather forego eating meat altogether than allow his eating meat to be the downfall of a fellow Christian. On the other hand, if your in-laws do not think that they themselves would be committing a sin by staying in a room that contains a crucifix or religious statue, then the right thing for you to do would be to leave the items in place. If they object to the items being there, remind them that you have such items in your house to honor Lord and, in accord with St Paul’s advice in Romans 14:1-12, your in-laws ought not to judge you on the matter.

 

[aTraditionalist]

I understand keeping the peace but this is absurd. If any guest of mine could not respect my house, I’d show them the door. I have an obligation to my family to run a Catholic household. If I watered down or compromised the Faith, in the spirit of faux respect, what example would I be setting? I couldn’t expect my kids to suffer tough times for the faith nor could I respectfully stand on the shoulders of martyrs. Especially if it was only snide comments and remarks. They are aware of where they are visiting. I’d vote that you have a grown up conversation about real respect and boundaries. If they can’t get with the program, then give them a list of reasonably priced hotels.

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[Estevao]

My Grand father dealt with a protestant son like this, he said:

“Son, you will not use our family get togethers as a soap box for your hatred towards our love for the mother of God and our brothers and sisters in heaven. If you want to be allowed to come to this house, you will keep your comments against the mother of God and the saints in heaven to yourself. Also, art is not condemned in the first commandment any more than holding a photo. If you can’t love God enough to respect Mary and the people in heaven, you are no longer welcome here.”

From then on, he NEVER talked against Mary and the saints in family get togethers, even though that’s what he always does at his baptist church

Don’t do it OP. You most certainly must keep up the crucifix, that is the bronze snake of Moses that prefigured what our Lord said people would look upon to be healed. These kinds of folks would probably call Solomon’s temple idolatrous: bronze snake, images of cherubim, etc.

 

[EasterJoy]

I understand keeping the peace but this is absurd. If any guest of mine could not respect my house, I’d show them the door. I have an obligation to my family to run a Catholic household. If I watered down or compromised the Faith, in the spirit of faux respect, what example would I be setting? I couldn’t expect my kids to suffer tough times for the faith nor could I respectfully stand on the shoulders of martyrs. Especially if it was only snide comments and remarks. They are aware of where they are visiting. I’d vote that you have a grown up conversation about real respect and boundaries. If they can’t get with the program, then give them a list of reasonably priced hotels.

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In-laws, whether the father/mother kind or the brother/sister kind are not run-of-the-mill guests. How you choose to get along with them will color every funeral, every wedding, and every holiday that you and they both attend.

There would be a limit to how much I’d turn my home around for visitors, but I would not give ammunition to a single family member looking to sow strife. Going the extra mile to deny those pretexts is often more than worth the effort.

Take the husband (son’s) cue on this. Do what he wants to do. If he wants to confront his parents, let him. If he doesn’t, then don’t. If he wants to actively avoid it, then do that.

 

[EmeraldOak]

I was busy all weekend house cleaning and grocery shopping. Sat down with a cup of coffee this morning to see if anyone had written with advice and wow, thank you everybody. You have given me new ways to see things. DH is going to read this thread when he gets home from work.

What are your husbands thoughts?

He says taking things down would cause less friction when they get here but he also said he worries how it will look to our children if we start taking things down.

I think you should get a huge portrait of the Pope and hang it right in the middle of your living room.

Until I read this I had forgotten I have a framed 8x10 of Pope Francis out in our glassroom where we homeschool! It is next to pictures of President Obama, our parish priest, the Supreme Court, the Capitol building, etc. We pray for our leaders in the morning. I also have a little Vatican flag next to an American flag.

I wonder what their pastor would say…seems highly suspicious.
Mainstream Christian religions show a fair amount of respect for others.
Do they attend their church?

They do attend their church every Sunday. They have what my MIL has called “an order of service book” which sounds like our missal. I do not understand what their hang-up is. As people on here have stated we have more in common than they would want to admit. You know how non-Catholics say we worship Mary? Well when I first met them I thought they worshipped Martin Luther. They talk about him, read books about him, read his writings. I wonder if Luther’s anti-Catholicism transferred onto them and it is all they know.

What was his reaction to this?

His reaction to their intervention was “oh boy, here it comes”. He was not shocked but it still hurt him. We have been married for 14 years and his conversion is not something that he went into lightly. He had given it much thought. He said they said a lot of inaccurate things about the church, that he just sat there and listened and didn’t say a word, waited until they were done and said is that all you want to say? Anything else? When they were finished saying what they had to say he says he turned to his Dad and started talking about the town in Wisconsin where they’re from. He says his Dad caught the hint and followed the new conversation and his step-mom walked away. I wasn’t there but he says it was tense. I am counting my blessings that they didn’t dissuade him. He was welcomed into the church at Easter Vigil this year. He got his First Communion at the Vigil about a week before our daughter made hers. We’ve been able to attend Mass together as a family now and it feels glorious.

Usually that type will find a way to start an argument, and the very absence of those objects would do just as well, especially with the MIL’s previous comment about an idol.

Yes, unfortunately this is true. My MIL does not treat me as a peer but almost in a child-like way, condescending and giving unwanted advice and opinions a lot of the time. I haven’t figured out yet how to get respect from her.

If you have questions about a particular item I will be happy to tell you about it but there will be no debate.

I like the ground rules idea, it should include that if anyone wants to question any practice of faith they should email after they get home. This is a time of our Thanksgiving gathering not a time of differences and debate. Discuss this with your spouse and agree on these rules well in advance.

A lot of people in this thread talked about setting boundaries which is something DH and I have failed to do with them the last 14 years. That is a big part of this that we need to figure out.

I have made sure the room they will be staying in is a Catholic-free zone. That was really good advice. I also picked up the Seton magazines and NCR newspapers laying around as I tidied up. I’m not sure what I’m going to do beyond that yet. Thank you everyone for giving me much to think about.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

You could make the only TV Chanel that’s available EWTN.

 

[EasterJoy]

You could make the only TV Chanel that’s available EWTN.

Football, rather. There will be plenty of references to Hail Marys there on Thanksgiving Day.

 

[pianistclare]

Invite one of your parish priests to dinner. Or a seminarian. If the topic comes up they will hear truth from someone they might perceive as learned.
Actually, no, never mind. No one should be subjected to this kind of abuse.
I will pray for you and your family.
I hope you have a truly blessed Thanksgiving & Christmas.