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melensdad
Guest
johnlal:
Good thing you admit to not thinking. Clearly you do not KNOW what the criminals are using as weapons and you clearly get all your information from totally biased sources!
Poll taken that most people disagree with Catholic bishops denying Communion to politicians who support abortion.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
melensdad;2373655:
And that’s why the rest of us have a right and an obligation to be well armed.
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johnlal
Guest
johnlal;2373686:
There’s no reasoning with gun guys.
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melensdad
Guest
Explain why? You are the one who is not using factual information.There’s no reasoning with gun guys.
Use facts and prove me (or Vern) wrong. I’m man enough to admit if I am wrong. So far you have provided nothing that is not just a sensationalized story, incorrect terms usage that misidentifies all sorts of weapons, and then cited as proof the “gun guys” website which is clearly an anti-gun propaganda website under the guise of a gun owner site, and you followed that up with sites that also use Brady Campaign information (which has been proven time and time again to be false).
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vern_humphrey
Guest
To the British anti-gun posters, let me point out that the spark that started the American Revolution was an attempt by the British to disarm the colonists.
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johnlal
Guest
You asked for proof to back up my assertion that lax gun laws in the country are putting assault rifles in the hands of gangs and terrorists. I cited three articles.
- One was from the Palm Beach Post which stated that “Cheap, available assault rifles, which closely resemble the Kalashnikov AK-47s brandished by Iraqi insurgents and African rebels alike, have become the weapons of choice for gang members and other violent criminals in Palm Beach County”.
- An article from “Gun Guys” which reported that “The ten suspects were indicted in Miami, Fla., then arrested in Bogota, Colombia, after allegedly trying to smuggle 50 of the .50 caliber rifles and two helicopters to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia (FARC), a group that reportedly controls much of Colombia and is listed by the U.S. State Department as a terrorist organization.”
- A third article explaining that US has been arming Al Queda and other terrorist organizations.
You also accuse the sources of bias, rather than addressing the statements of fact contained in the reports. Are you suggesting that terrorists did not buy rifles in the US? That the story is just made up, and no such indictments exist?
You also use James Brady’s name as if the mere mention would kill any argument. I think Mr. Brady’s actual experience as a victim of gun violence makes him uniquely qualified to advocate on the subject.
I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time. I should have known that arguing with gun guys is like shouting at a brick wall.
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mary_bobo
Guest
Yes, indeed. Souter was appointed by GB41. He was recommended by John Sununu, no liberal he. Souter has been a great disappointment as was O’Connor.
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melensdad
Guest
And for our American anti-gun posters, let us not forget these words that led us to overthrow the British oppression:
*But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
- Based on our own pre-overthrow documents, we have the OBLIGATION to throw off our own government if it becomes oppressive.
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mary_bobo
Guest
You have thrown out lots of accusations here with absolutely no evidence offered. And you terminology regarding firearms is uneducated pap.
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melensdad
Guest
So guns that look like assault weapons are now bad? You just made the point I was making earlier. Go look at the photo of the little girl shooting the rifle on the prior page. That gun can be made to look like an AK-47 very easily. But it is FUNCTIONALLY a very different gun. Thanks for the help on clearing this up!
Note they FAILED to smuggle anything. The laws we already have WORKED.
And the moon is made of swiss cheese. Last time I checked Al Queda used Russian made AK-47s and the US used M-16s. We don’t even make the guns Al Queda uses how can we supply them? Oh, through illegal black-ops channels. Let me go get my tin foil hat, I hear helicopters overhead now!
And the FACT that more violence is STOPPED with by legal gun owners than is committed by criminals holds no weight with you? Or the FACT that many times each day people defend themselves with guns does not somehow offset the tragedy that Jim Brady? For every 1 person like Mr Brady who is shot and injured 2+ people are saved. Seems like we want to protect the right to bear arms not give it up.
Regarding lax gun laws versus strict laws, it seems odd you would bring up something else that proves my point. States that allow people to carry guns have lower crime rates than those that restrict it. States with strict gun laws (Illinois) have far more crime than states with lax gun laws (Indiana) even when they are geographically neighbors.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
melensdad;2373694:
They use facts. And they know what they’re talking about. And they don’t accept anti-gun propaganda as gospel. That’s cheating!!There’s no reasoning with gun guys.
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melensdad
Guest
Well here is one of the unbiased reports you cited, an article from Josh Sugarmann, one of the most biased of the anti-gunners and member of several anti-gun organizations. Here is an exerpt from a magazine that poses a wild hypothetical.There’s no reasoning with gun guys.
article cited by johnlal said:
In the article above, which was sourced by johnlel as evidence, it should be noted that a simple .308, .30-06, 7mmRem, or any of SEVERAL DOZEN other COMMON HUNTING calibers will easily shoot though the side of an airliner’s fuselage. Further, they will shoot through the wall of your home. Further they will shoot through your car door. However, how often does it happen? It seem like we are taking EXTREME HYPOTHETICAL cases and BLOWING THEM WAY OUT OF PROPORTION, then we are using those HYPOTHETICAL cases to scare the ignorant into believing there is a real threat.
Yup, if this is what the Anti-Gun folks are stooping too, then we really better start to line the windows with tin-foil and wear our tin-foil hats. BTW, what works better at keeping Big Brother from reading our minds “Aluminum” foil or “Tin” foil?
By the way, what makes his life experience more valuable than someone who has successfully defended their life with the use of a gun? I personally know 3 people who have defended their lives with guns. One was a young lady who shot an attacker (he went to jail bleeding). One was a man who defended himself against 2 attackers and never had to fire his weapon. The third was a man who shot a dog that was about to maul his infant girl while his wife pushed it down the road in a baby stroller. Are their experiences worth less than Jim Brady’s? Are you saying their lives are worth less? I know all three of these people personally and I believe they made the right choices (as did the law enforcement agencies).
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Clearly, we’ll have to outlaw English muffins. And the people who make them.
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johnlal
Guest
Wow. I thought a Catholic message board would be somewhat civil.
Evidence?
**Untrue. General Teguba was recently interviewed about his investigation. He was prevented from investigating the CIA, or anyone higher up in the chain of command. **
*EVIDENCE: General Says Prison Inquiry Led to His Forced Retirement
nytimes.com/2007/06/17/washington/17ghraib.html?ref=world
*
**There are reports and evidence of murder at Abu Ghraib, and coverups of those murders. **
*EVIDENCE: “They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. The next day the medics came in and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake I.V. in his arm [to suggest he died under medical care] and took him away. This OGA (other governmental agency) [prisoner] was never processed and therefore never had a number.”
– Ivan Frederick
baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.diary01may01,0,6510246.story?coll=bal-iraq-utility
imdb.com/title/tt0912585/quotes*
There are also reports and evidence of rape, against men and also against children. I can’t believe you are trying to rationalize this
EVIDENCE:
A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison must be released. “blatantly sadistic.”
…Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.
…“The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling.”
editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842
**As Governor of Texas, GW Bush sent a huge number of people to their deaths… **
*EVIDENCE: GW Bush sent 232 criminals to their death while Governor of Texas.
tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm
*
**Bush mocked Carla Faye Tucker when interviewed about her pleas for clemency. In a mocking voice he aped “I don’t want to die”. This is the guy who’s going to save us from the culture of death? **
*EVIDENCE: Karla Tucker and George W. Bush
Before Tucker was executed, there were pleas for clemency from Waly Bacre Ndiaye, the United Nations commissioner on summary and arbitrary executions, the World Council of Churches, Pope John Paul II, and Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, among other world figures. Despite these pleas, Bush signed her death warrant. In 1999, during the 2000 Republican Presidential primary race, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson interviewed Bush for Talk Magazine (September 1999, p. 106). Excerpt from this interview is quoted below:
In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. “Did you meet with any of them?” I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. “No, I didn’t meet with any of them”, he snaps, as though I’ve just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. “I didn’t meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, ‘What would you say to Governor Bush?’” “What was her answer?” I wonder. “‘Please,’” Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, “‘don’t kill me.’” I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.
*
The church teaches that "Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment…"
EVIDENCE: Taken from the Catechism. Look it up!
**The autopsy after Ms. Shaivo’s death confirmed that treatment was only postponing the inevitable, and that there was no hope for any recovery. **
*EVIDENCE: abstractappeal.com/schiavo/autopsyreport.pdf
*
**We can all remember “Doctor” Bill Frist’s video diagnosis. **
EVIDENCE: Viewing Videotape, Frist Disputes Fla. Doctors’ Diagnosis of Schiavo
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48119-2005Mar18.html
**Many of the Republicans who rushed to Washington to protect Shaivo had ended their own parents’ lives mercifully. **
*EVIDENCE: (AP) House Speaker Tom DeLay, who has helped lead a congressional effort to keep a brain-damaged Florida woman alive, joined family members nearly 17 years ago in allowing doctors not to take extraordinary measures to extend his father’s life, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday. *
cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/27/politics/main683332.shtml
Please. Before you resort to calling me a liar, LOOK IT UP! Don’t you have google?
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melensdad
Guest
Vern, I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that story is true. Clearly anyone who eats English muffins knows they are too dry to eat plain and there would have to have at least butter, and possibly butter and jam added to it. But nowhere in the article did it mention anything about strawberry jam “splatter” on the adjacent passengers. Besides, everyone knows that a hot cherry popover is far more lethal with its gooey hot filling and with the “assault” triangular shape that cuts through the wind better than round muffins.Clearly, we’ll have to outlaw English muffins. And the people who make them.
By the way, I think it is misguided to ban English muffins and those who make them. The culprits here are the aliens who launch them from outer space. I think that if we go after those folks then we’d have safer airliners.
But wait, if we did that, it would be sort of like going after CRIMINALS instead of the tools they use. What would Josh Sugarmann and his Brady Campaign friends think about that? Certainly they would not want to hold people responsible for their own actions . . . would they?
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johnlal
Guest
Nothing here but clever semantics and name-calling. I’m moving on.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
I am not calling you a liar, but this is the second time you incorrectly characterized Ms. Schiavo’s medical treatment of food and water as burdensome. You left out the next paragraph which characterizes Ms. Schiavo’s condition perfectly:
Please pray on this.
It is not right to support the state murdering people by withholding food and water, which is what they cruelly did to Ms. Schiavo. That is the evidence. That is the fact.
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melensdad
Guest
Actually you seem to completely ignore the facts.
Did you care to respond to these:
Prior post by melensdad in response to johnlal:
Would you like to explain the ballistics of the 50 caliber round and how it could “tear a 5” hole" through the fuselage of the hypothetical airliner because I’m still trying to figure out that grossly exaggerated error? More likely it would punch a very clean hole smaller than the diameter of your index finger through the fuselage of the parked airliner . . . slightly larger than a hole that a common hunting rifle would create, and smaller than the hole from a shotgun slug.
Perhaps you could explain how Jim Brady is more ‘worthy’ than the folks who use guns to protect themselves?
Or maybe you can explain the Palm Beach Post article a little better to me so I can understand how guns that “look” like assault weapons are somehow evil? Have you been to the toy section at Wal Mart and looked at the toy guns there? Many of those “look” like AK-47s and M-16s but they squirt water or make “bang” noises. Still based on the criteria of “looking like an AK-47” they should be banned. And what about the question I posed when I posted the photo of my daughter, the gun she is shooting could also be made to look like an AK-47 by changing out the stock (they sell replacements for under $100) and adding some other available cosmetic parts . . . none of which actually turn the gun into an assault weapon but combined make it “look” like one.
And you went on to claim “lax” gun laws are a problem but failed to address the issues of Indiana versus Illinois, which are geographically and culturally similar but dramatically different in crime rates. Indiana has, by the Brady Campaign ideals, very “lax” gun laws. Illinois has, by those same ideals, very strict gun laws. Chicago, ILL even borders Whiting, IN and you can walk across the street and be in the opposing city but Whiting has a very low violent crime rate while just across the street in Chicago the crime rate is substantially higher. Explain please?
There are many other gross exaggerations/false claims you made that you did not back up.
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johnlal
Guest
That is true. You said I was throwing around accusations. I only presumed you meant false accusations. Otherwise why would you fault me for accusations that were true?
Terri Schiavo was not a functioning human being. Her brain was severely atrophied. She was not aware of things that were going on around her. She wasn’t only getting food and water. She was also getting trained care in a nursing facility by health care professionals. This went on for 15 years. This may not have been burdensome to the people who were paying the bills (it probably was), but it was certainly extraordinary, disproportionate to the expected outcome , overzealous treatment, etc. given that she was in a vegetative state.
People choose every day to stop unnecessary medical treatment for their families. It’s a hard decision to make. Usually, people are afforded respect and privacy in making their decision. However, during election years, anything goes.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That’s why I say go after the muffins and the people who make them – not after the aliens. If we deal with the aliens, we’ll have no more assault muffins fired at us, and hence nothing to scare people with. We couldn’t raise money and we’d have to get real jobs!!Vern, I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that story is true. Clearly anyone who eats English muffins knows they are too dry to eat plain and there would have to have at least butter, and possibly butter and jam added to it. But nowhere in the article did it mention anything about strawberry jam “splatter” on the adjacent passengers. Besides, everyone knows that a hot cherry popover is far more lethal with its gooey hot filling and with the “assault” triangular shape that cuts through the wind better than round muffins.
By the way, I think it is misguided to ban English muffins and those who make them. The culprits here are the aliens who launch them from outer space. I think that if we go after those folks then we’d have safer airliners.
But wait, if we did that, it would be sort of like going after CRIMINALS instead of the tools they use. What would Josh Sugarmann and his Brady Campaign friends think about that? Certainly they would not want to hold people responsible for their own actions . . . would they?
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