Poll: where do you stand as a traditionalist?

[Fuerza]

“Like” is a difficult word.

I reverence the EF, but I would always prefer to go to the OF…until the day the EF is offered audibly in the vernacular with a degree more simplicity, in which case I would probably prefer the EF.

For the record, I picked #4.

Now to address your above comment, I partially agree with you. With regard to the language, I would have no problem with the EF being done mostly in the vernacular. As a matter of fact, the translation already listed in the missal is beautiful. I would however like to see some Latin retained, even if just for certain sung prayers like the Gloria, Agnus Dei, and Sanctus. Ideally I think the Eucharistic prayer should also be in Latin in order to demonstrate its mystery and significance, but it is possible to convey that in the vernacular as well.

With regard to saying everything audibly, I would definitely prefer it, but I can also understand the other point of view.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

For the record, I picked #4.

Now to address your above comment, I partially agree with you. With regard to the language, I would have no problem with the EF being done mostly in the vernacular. As a matter of fact, the translation already listed in the missal is beautiful. I would however like to see some Latin retained, even if just for certain sung prayers like the Gloria, Agnus Dei, and Sanctus. Ideally I think the Eucharistic prayer should also be in Latin in order to demonstrate its mystery and significance, but it is possible to convey that in the vernacular as well.

With regard to saying everything audibly, I would definitely prefer it, but I can also understand the other point of view.

When I was an altar boy, we did one “high Mass” per month, the 10 am Mass on the first Sunday of each month, but it was in English.

 

[I_Believe]

Perhaps turning to the words of those who have given their lives to HMC, and have voices we must respect, will help us decide where we stand.

** Alluding to the composition of the New Mass, Father Duggan states: "It is enough to compare the text of this Missal (the Missal of 1570) with the Novus Ordo of 1969 to see that there has been a revolutionary change (November AD2000).

Fr Duggan’s contention that the liturgical change is revolutionary is corroborated by Father Joseph Gelineau SJ whose credentials for commenting on the New Mass could scarcely be more authoritative. Fr Gelineau was one of the most influential of Archbishop Bugnini’s Consilium which was charged with composing the New Mass after Vatican II. He was described by the Archbishop as one of “the great masters of the international liturgical world” (The Reform of the Liturgy, page 221). Archbishop Bugnini, it will be recalled, was the principal architect of the Novus Ordo.

In his book Demain la Liturgie (The Liturgy Tomorrow), Fr Gelineau observes: “Let those, who, like myself have known and sung a Latin Gregorian High Mass remember it if they can. Let them compare it with the Mass that we now have. Not only the words, the melodies, and some of the gestures are different. To tell the truth it is a different liturgy of the Mass. This needs to be said without ambiguity: the Roman Rite as we knew it no longer exists (Le Rite Romain tel que nous l’avons connu n’existe plus). It has been destroyed (il est détruit)” (pages 9-10).

Monsignor Klaus Gamber agrees with Fr Gelineau that the Roman Rite has been destroyed. Monsignor writes: “[A]t this critical juncture the traditional Roman Rite, more than one thousand years old, has been destroyed” (The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, page 99).

Father Kenneth Baker SJ, who is editor of the Homiletic & Pastoral Review, concurs with Fr Duggan that the liturgical changes have been revolutionary. Lamenting the numerous changes imposed on the people which they scarcely had time to digest, Fr Baker wrote: “We have been overwhelmed with changes in the Church at all levels but it is the liturgical revolution which touches all of us intimately and immediately” (February 1979).

Cardinal Ratzinger claims that our ecclesial malaise is attributable, at least in part, to the condition of the Liturgy. He writes: “I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the Liturgy” (Milestones, page 148). **

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Notice the phrase “revolutionary changes”. In 1962, Pope John XXIII wrote in his Veterum Sapientia, On the Promotion of the Study of Latin, …

** 1. Bishops and superiors-general of religious orders shall take pains to ensure that in their seminaries and in their schools where adolescents are trained for the priesthood, all shall studiously observe the Apostolic See’s decision in this matter and obey these Our prescriptions most carefully.

1. In the exercise of their paternal care they shall be on their guard lest anyone under their jurisdiction, eager for revolutionary changes,** writes against the use of Latin in the teaching of the higher sacred studies or in the Liturgy, or through prejudice makes light of the Holy See’s will in this regard or interprets it falsely.

John XXIII not only did not want these changes, nor did he want them debated.

 

[brigid12]

I put #5 but only because I can go to an NO that is reverent, well done and often done in Latin. If I couldn’t I’d have put #4. Besides, there is only 1 TLM in this huge diocese (and very inconvenient and expensive - gas) so the opportunity for me to be a “TLM only” isn’t really there. It’s closer and easier for me to go to a Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic church.

 

[Linnyo]

What do you have against Eastern Catholic Masses?

I don’t think you get Eastern Catholic here and I guess, I am really ignorant of what Eastern Catholic is??

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I don’t think you get Eastern Catholic here and I guess, I am really ignorant of what Eastern Catholic is??

I think she was sorta joking… not all Catholics are “Roman Catholics.” It annoys Eastern Catholics to hear the Pope constantly referred to as “The head of the Roman Catholic Church.” I guess it comes down to semantics and what one means by “Roman Catholic.” Some Catholics belong to Eastern Churches that don’t use the Roman Rite (the Mass we know.) They have all different ways of celebrating the Mass, in various languages, some of them looking exactly like the Orthodox Church.