Polygamy is not sin

[cena]

Actually that is not correct. Non consummation has nothing to do with the validity of a marriage.

A valid marriage can be non consummated. Such a marriage can be dissolved but not annulled.
A valid marriage which is consummated cannot be dissolved or annulled.

Anulment is a declaration that the marriage was never valid and grounds for annulment apply to matters prior to the marriage.

Sorry, my mistake. Thanks for the correction

 

[AgnosticBoy]

They are still married because the vow involves staying with that person “until death due us part” not “when I stop loving you”

My point is that just because polygamy lacks the " conjugal love" that’s defined by the Catholic Church does not mean that it is an invalid form of marriage. I presume you would then agree that even a loveless marriage would still count as marriage like if a couple decides to separate compared to polygamy where there’s still love.

How it impractical? Obviously they can not be unified every single second of every day. So if a husband goes on a trip without the wife are they no longer married? I’m sorry I probably misinterpreted what you said about separated spouses so can you clarify?

Conjugal love according to the Catholic Catechism:

1643 Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter - appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility.

Looking at this objectively as opposed to some fairy tale love story, you will not find that every aspect of your spouse appealing, esp. as age increases. Feelings can hype things up beyond how they really are but once that passes then you’ll see things a little differently. It is also physically impossible to give yourself totally to a spouse since 1/3 of your life will involve you sleeping, another big part may involve you working and with all thus energy is spent on things other than your spouse.

Spiritually, its not theologically sound to say that there is any union of heart or soul. You dont have shared thoughts/feelings/dreams with a spouse unless the spouse tells you. When a husband dies his soul does not depart with his wife’s soul.

So this totality demanded of conjugal love is not absolute and in some cases it’s more of an aggrandized ideal, in my view.

 

[cena]

My point is that just because polygamy lacks the " conjugal love" that’s defined by the Catholic Church does not mean that it is an invalid form of marriage. I presume you would then agree tvat even a loveless marriage would still count as marriage like if a couple decides to separate compared to polygamy where there’s still love.

Conjugal love according to the Catholic Catechism:

Looking at this objectively as opposed to some fairy tale love story, you will not find that every aspect of your spouse appealing, esp. as age increases. Feelings can hype things up beyond how they really are but once that passes then you’ll see thungs a little differently. It is also physically impossible to give yourself totally to a spouse since 1/3 of your life will involve you sleeping, another big part may involve you working and with all thus energy is spent on things other than your spouse.

Spiritually, its not theologically sound to say that there is any union of heart or soul. You dont have shared thoughts/feelings/dreams with a spouse unless the spouse tells you. When a husband dies his soul does not depart with his wife’s soul.

So this totality demanded of conjugal love is not absolute and in some cases it’s more of an aggrandized ideal, in my view.

Thanks for clearing up your point.
If your attention is divided between several spouses there is no unity. It is divided.
2387 The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However polygamy is not in accord with the moral law." [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive."180 The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.

You can not give yourself completely to different people at the same time

When a husband dies the marriage is over. "Til death do us part’ It is a lifelong vow for one of the spouses.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Thanks for clearing up your point.
If your attention is divided between several spouses there is no unity. It is divided.
2387 The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However polygamy is not in accord with the moral law." [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive."180 The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.

You can not give yourself completely to different people at the same time

When a husband dies the marriage is over. "Til death do us part’ It is a lifelong vow for one of the spouses.

I agree that polygamy conflicts with undivided love based on how the Catholic Church defines conjugal love. But I also maintain my position that it is not a necessary condition for marriage since even separated spouses are still considered married in God’s eyes. In some cases, conjugal love is also not achievable nor sustainable based on the reasons i brought up in post #78.

This might require another thread but here’s a thought…some polygamists in consensual relationships are not even looking for undivided ‘romantic’ love. The extra companionship and support (financial, child care, emotional, etc) that can come from having an extra spouse to turn to can make up and perhaps even outweigh any decrease in romantic love, assuming all spouses work good together. This is what ive gathered from looking at some modern day adult consensual polygamous relationships.

 

[cena]

I agree that polygamy conflicts with undivided love based on how the Catholic Church defines love. But I also maintain my position that it is not a necessary condition for marriage since even separated spouses are still considered married in God’s eyes. In some cases, conjugal love is also not achievable nor sustainable based on the reasons i brought up in post #78.

This might require another thread but here’s a thought…some polygamists in consensual relationships are not even looking for undivided ‘romantic’ love. The extra companionship and support (financial, child care, emotional, etc) that can come from having an extra spouse to turn to can make up and perhaps even outweigh any decrease in romantic love, assuming all spouses work good together. This is what ive gathered from looking at some modern day adult consensual polygamous relationships.

So why isn’t adultery okay? If a husband wants extra companion can’t he just have a mistress around instead of marrying more people?
Couldn’t there be more children too? Having more adults could mean more children not just more adults to take care of children.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

So why isn’t adultery okay? If a husband wants extra companion can’t he just have a mistress around instead of marrying more people?

Ive already presented my case for why polygamy is not adultery or any other sin. I also took time to respond to many objections to my view throughout this thread (from page 1 to page 5 or 6 of this thread).

For your second question I’d say that having mistresses would be fornication. A married man wanting an additional wife should only be for the same reasons that he wanted his first wife, that is, he wants a committed relationship with someone he loves.

Couldn’t there be more children too? Having more adults could mean more children not just more adults to take care of children.

Not necessarily any more than your average monogamous couple. I know some Mormon polygamists tend to have 3, 4, maybe 15+ wives and 20 or 30 some kids but that isnt necessary for polygamy. A married couple may only choose to add 1 more wife and want 1 or 2 kids from each wife.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

My last post before this one will be my last response here for a while. I need to take a time out to study other things. Thanks for all the good discussions so far!

 

[cena]

Ive already presented my case for why polygamy is not adultery or any other sin. I also took time to respond to many objections to my view throughout this thread (from page 1 to page 5 or 6 of this thread).

For your second question I’d say that having mistresses would be fornication. A married man wanting an additional wife should only be for the same reasons that he wanted his first wife, that is, he wants a committed relationship with someone he loves.

Not necessarily any more than your average monogamous couple. I know some Mormon polygamists tend to have 3, 4, maybe 15+ wives and 20 or 30 some kids but that isnt necessary for polygamy. A married couple may only choose to add 1 more wife and want 1 or 2 kids from each wife.

If you are married any relations you have with other people is adultery. Or if you are single and have relations with someone who is married that is adultery. Both people have to be single (not married) for it to be fornication.