J
Jo_s_Dad
Guest
Now your just being downright disrespectful. You can argue the doctrine, there’s certainly nothing wrong with that, but referring to Joseph Smith as “Joe” is blatently offensive and disrespectful.
- Status
J
JRR
Guest
Joseph Smith the first prophet of LDS Church received this revelation concerning many wifes. See Doctrine and Covenants Section 132.
61, And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second , and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
Brigham Young warned " If any of you will deny the plurality of wives and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned."
Brigham Young, July 14, 1855, JOD vol 3, 266
Ten years later Wilford Woodruff (Prophet) received a supportive revelation that depicted polygamy as absolutely essential to mormon godhood. This communication from God went so far as to damn anyone who would hinder Mormons from obeying plural marriage.
Wilford Woodruff, in Soctt G. Kennery, ed., Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 1833-1898 (Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1983-85) under January 26, 1880, vol 7, pages 546, 615-617.
John Taylor (Prophet 1880) stated polygamy was a "divine institution… handed down direct from God. The United States cannot abolish it. No nation on the earth can prevent it, nor all the nations on earth combined. I defy the United States. I will obey God."
John Taylor, Salt Lake Tribune, January 6, 1880 Quoted in Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake Ciity: Signature Books, 1989; paperback edition) 112-113
So clearly, Joseph Smith’s revelation on plural marriage was seen as irrevocable, having been instituted in this dispensation of time for the Saints as part of God’s restoration of all things prior to Jesus second coming.
Brigham Young, "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy."
Brigham Young , August 19, 1866, in JOD, vol. 11, 269.
61, And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second , and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
Brigham Young warned " If any of you will deny the plurality of wives and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned."
Brigham Young, July 14, 1855, JOD vol 3, 266
Ten years later Wilford Woodruff (Prophet) received a supportive revelation that depicted polygamy as absolutely essential to mormon godhood. This communication from God went so far as to damn anyone who would hinder Mormons from obeying plural marriage.
Wilford Woodruff, in Soctt G. Kennery, ed., Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 1833-1898 (Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1983-85) under January 26, 1880, vol 7, pages 546, 615-617.
John Taylor (Prophet 1880) stated polygamy was a "divine institution… handed down direct from God. The United States cannot abolish it. No nation on the earth can prevent it, nor all the nations on earth combined. I defy the United States. I will obey God."
John Taylor, Salt Lake Tribune, January 6, 1880 Quoted in Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake Ciity: Signature Books, 1989; paperback edition) 112-113
So clearly, Joseph Smith’s revelation on plural marriage was seen as irrevocable, having been instituted in this dispensation of time for the Saints as part of God’s restoration of all things prior to Jesus second coming.
Brigham Young, "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy."
Brigham Young , August 19, 1866, in JOD, vol. 11, 269.
M
Malachi4U
Guest
???
Websters-Merriam defines Christian in part this way: “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”. Who’s definition do you use? See: m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Christian By this definition Mormons are just as Christian as Baptists or any other Protestants are.
Mormons believe in Jesus Christ and obey the Bible too just like other Protestants. They believe in Jesus Christ so they must be saved too since they believe in Jesus and thats all that is needed?
So now the twist, I’m on your side of the issue.
I define a Christian as one who has been baptized into Jesus Christ through a proper baptizm. You can also find this definition in Scripture too. Belief in Jesus is good but even infants can be Christian with baptism.
Next, the Mormons believe in countless gods. Jesus was fathered by a man who became a god on some other planet, got his own planet - earth - took Mary and ‘knew’ her to make her pregnant, Jesus was born a man and after a good life became a god himself.
What do Mormons believe about the Holy Spirit? Who knows who cares?
Mormons do not believe in the Trinity.
Hum? Is earth a Celestial kingdom?
If it is OK for every Protestant with a pen to ink out his own version of the Bible like King James or those at Zandervon Press why can’t Joe Smith ink out his version? A double standard among Protestants? If every Protestant can believe and self-interpret Scripture why not the Mormons too? Another double standard?
So much more to write but got to go.
J
JRR
Guest
The Book of Mormon gives clear guidance to the LDS concerning polygamy. This guidance is in direct conflict to the teaching of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, and John Taylor and any mormon in a polygamy relation or any mormon you teaches polygamy now or that it will occur in the afterlife.
" And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi…began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines" (Jacob 1:15 )
“Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was aboninable before me, saith the Lord…{T}here shall not any man among you have save itbe one wife, and concubines he shall have none” (Jacob 2;24-27)
:Behold, the Lamanites…are more righteous than you, for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father-that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms commited among them" ( Jacob 3:5)
In the Book of Mormon it states God is unchanging.
"For I know that God is not a parital God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
(Moroni 8:18)
*Did God change his teaching and allow polygamy to occur ? *
" And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi…began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines" (Jacob 1:15 )
“Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was aboninable before me, saith the Lord…{T}here shall not any man among you have save itbe one wife, and concubines he shall have none” (Jacob 2;24-27)
:Behold, the Lamanites…are more righteous than you, for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father-that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms commited among them" ( Jacob 3:5)
In the Book of Mormon it states God is unchanging.
"For I know that God is not a parital God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
(Moroni 8:18)
*Did God change his teaching and allow polygamy to occur ? *
P
puzzleannie
Guest
†ChristPaladin†:
Mormons are not Christian, in fact specifically deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity. there are several Mormon sects besides the main one headquartered in Salt Lake City, whose leadership had a “revelation” to abandon polygamy so that Utah could enter the union. Some of these renegade sects practice polygamy, which is against the law in all 50 states, as well as being against God’s law and the law of the Catholic Church, with interprets and teaches God’s law on earth.
J
Jerusha
Guest
He was called “Joe”, he called himself “Joe”, he was an extremely human being, and just a bit insane. He was not Jesus.
J
Jo_s_Dad
Guest
He never claimed to be Jesus, and no Mormon would ever consider him such.
He was called “Joe”? Really? How long did you know him? and how long have you been LDS?
I will say this, you got one thing right, he was indeed a very human being.
C
catsrus
Guest
Seldom is it brought up, and never by mormons, that they all believed in polgamy and practiced it until they wanted recognition of Utah as a state. The government refused until they stopped their “unusual” practice of multiple wives. (notice, never multiple husbands) So after a “revelation”, or whatever they call it, the practice was dropped and, Wha-la!, Utah became a state.
The question now seems to be; who are the real mormon apostates? The “main stream” in Salt Lake City or the polygamists in Colorado city and Hilldale?
The question now seems to be; who are the real mormon apostates? The “main stream” in Salt Lake City or the polygamists in Colorado city and Hilldale?
J
Jerusha
Guest
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petra
Guest
Mormons do consider themselves Christian.
They actually do not believe Jesus is God. He is simply the first born of the Father’s spirit children—our eldest spirit brother. (Mormons believe we were all first created spiritually in heaven before being given a material body through birth.) Jesus’ special place in history and religion is simply that he was chosen by the Father to be the Savior. Lucifer, the second eldest spirit child, wanted to be Savior, but the Father chose Jesus. Lucifer got mad, so the Father banished him from heaven. According to their account, Jesus and Lucifer are created beings just as we are.
So your description that they believe in 3 gods instead of the Trinity is not quite accurate. In fact, Mormons have pointed out to me that the Trinity is the worship of 3 gods and is polytheistic. They claim to worship only 1 God, the Father. However, the doctrine of eternal progression actually reveals that they believe in the existence of countless gods, as a Mormon in good standing who has been married in the temple has the opportunity to become a god with his wife, produce their own spirit children, populate their own planet, and thus, be Heavenly Father to that world.
P
petra
Guest
Jo's_Dad:
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)
From the same sermon, Smith also lied about his multiple wives,
“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.”
However, it is well documented that he had many, many wives. Mormon historian, Andrew Jensen, documented 27 wives. (Historical Record, pp.233, 234) Mormon author John J. Stewart indicates Smith had far more than that. Stanley S. Ivins, an authority on Mormon polygamy, published a list of 84 women with whom Smith was married.
Joseph Smith actually claimed to be better than Jesus. Addressing dissenters in Nauvoo in 1844, he said,
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)
From the same sermon, Smith also lied about his multiple wives,
“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.”
However, it is well documented that he had many, many wives. Mormon historian, Andrew Jensen, documented 27 wives. (Historical Record, pp.233, 234) Mormon author John J. Stewart indicates Smith had far more than that. Stanley S. Ivins, an authority on Mormon polygamy, published a list of 84 women with whom Smith was married.
T
trailblazer
Guest
Boy has this thread moved in one direction!
Thinking about numerous wives –
ONE IS PLENTY!
any more and someone whould need to commit me!
http://www.smilieland.com/graphics3/men32.gif
God bless!
Bob
Thinking about numerous wives –
ONE IS PLENTY!
any more and someone whould need to commit me!
http://www.smilieland.com/graphics3/men32.gif
God bless!
Bob
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
It is true that at one time Mormons practiced Polygamy, but it is often overplayed, misunderstood and sensationalized by detractors. The facts are that during a period of early Church history, the law of plural marriage was practiced by a small portion of church members. Before anyone overreacts to that admission it would be well to remember two points:
(1) Plural marriage has been practiced throughout the ages for short periods of time when directed by the Lord for his purposes, as in the cases of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others.
(2) Joseph Smith Jr. by his sacred calling, held the keys and the authority, as a part of the promised restoration of all things, to excercise this principle when so directed by the Lord. Joseph Smith said, “I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on earth at a time on whom the power and its keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.”
So, why did some early Mormons practice plural marriage? Simply because they were commanded to do so by God through His prophet.
In Mormon doctrine, plural marriage is not an essential principle of the gospel, nor is it preferable to monogamy. The Lord, however, may choose to command, forbid, or tolerate this practice among his people as he deems it necessary or appropriate. Indeed, he has done all three!
Far from being a whoredom or a sordid practice, polygamy was governed by strict limits, order, and mutualy agreement when entering ito and, if necessary, terminating the practice. Those who entered into polygamy were pure in heart and strictly virtuous. Those who perverted or abused the system recieved imediate and heavy condemnation.
Concerning Western culture’s general abhorrence to plural marriage, Professor Stephen E. Robinson of Brigham Young University wrote:
The roots of this abhorrence can hardly be described as biblical, for the Old Testament explicitly sanctions polygamy, and the New Testament does not forbid it. The practice could not have been abhorrent to Jesus and the first-century Jewish Christians, for their culture was not Western and plural marriage was sanctioned in the law of Moses, the holiness of which was endorsed by both Jesus and Paul.
Even the early Christians saw that polygamy was a custom not out of harmony with the church. Saint Augustine, the great philosopher and Catholic convert who became the Bishop of Hippo, responded to the church’s condemnation of polygamy: “Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; it is a crime now because it is no longer the custom…the only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the laws forbid it.” The same was true of the early LDS Church. In 1890 President Wilford Woodruff, then the prophet of the Church, issued the Manifesto, as directed by the Lord, commanding the practice of plural marriage to cease because antipolygamy legislation threatened to confiscate Church property, including Holy Temples. Today , because God forbids the practice, all who engage in plural marriage are guilty of great wickedness and are subject to excommunication from the Church.
BJ
(1) Plural marriage has been practiced throughout the ages for short periods of time when directed by the Lord for his purposes, as in the cases of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others.
(2) Joseph Smith Jr. by his sacred calling, held the keys and the authority, as a part of the promised restoration of all things, to excercise this principle when so directed by the Lord. Joseph Smith said, “I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on earth at a time on whom the power and its keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.”
So, why did some early Mormons practice plural marriage? Simply because they were commanded to do so by God through His prophet.
In Mormon doctrine, plural marriage is not an essential principle of the gospel, nor is it preferable to monogamy. The Lord, however, may choose to command, forbid, or tolerate this practice among his people as he deems it necessary or appropriate. Indeed, he has done all three!
Far from being a whoredom or a sordid practice, polygamy was governed by strict limits, order, and mutualy agreement when entering ito and, if necessary, terminating the practice. Those who entered into polygamy were pure in heart and strictly virtuous. Those who perverted or abused the system recieved imediate and heavy condemnation.
Concerning Western culture’s general abhorrence to plural marriage, Professor Stephen E. Robinson of Brigham Young University wrote:
The roots of this abhorrence can hardly be described as biblical, for the Old Testament explicitly sanctions polygamy, and the New Testament does not forbid it. The practice could not have been abhorrent to Jesus and the first-century Jewish Christians, for their culture was not Western and plural marriage was sanctioned in the law of Moses, the holiness of which was endorsed by both Jesus and Paul.
Even the early Christians saw that polygamy was a custom not out of harmony with the church. Saint Augustine, the great philosopher and Catholic convert who became the Bishop of Hippo, responded to the church’s condemnation of polygamy: “Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; it is a crime now because it is no longer the custom…the only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the laws forbid it.” The same was true of the early LDS Church. In 1890 President Wilford Woodruff, then the prophet of the Church, issued the Manifesto, as directed by the Lord, commanding the practice of plural marriage to cease because antipolygamy legislation threatened to confiscate Church property, including Holy Temples. Today , because God forbids the practice, all who engage in plural marriage are guilty of great wickedness and are subject to excommunication from the Church.
BJ
T
TeriGator
Guest
I’m sure there will be Mormons here who will argue this point with me. But it is fact that the church taught, at least up to 1990, that while polygamy cannot be an “earthly precept” right now because of widespread hostility to the notion, it is still an “eternal or heavenly precept.” In the celestial kindgom, men who achieve the ultimate prize of godhood may, and probably will be, sealed to many wives, in order to populate their new world with spirit children. It was well understood among Mormons, at least in Utah, that polygamy may indeed return at some point in time to earthly practice.
Of course, this was one of those “meat of the gospel” things that was not taught to potential converts, because they had yet to receive the “milk of the gospel.”
Of course, this was one of those “meat of the gospel” things that was not taught to potential converts, because they had yet to receive the “milk of the gospel.”
B
boppysbud
Guest
Actually mormons are niether polytheists or monotheists.
While they do belive in the existence of many, many Gods. (The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, never Spirit to a mormon are all seperate Gods to them, and then their are the millions of “WORTHY” temple married mormons who have been “exhalted” into more Gods, They are really henotheists.
They beleive that no matter how many Gods there are, they only worship one God, “heavenly Father, the only God with whom they have to do”. Which to mormons means they are not polytheists.
To mormons it matters not how many Gods you beleive in, but how many Gods you actually worship.
So of course Mormons are not really Christians, unless you take your definition of “Christian” from a secular dictionary or redefine Christian enough to remove all real meaning from the word.
While they do belive in the existence of many, many Gods. (The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, never Spirit to a mormon are all seperate Gods to them, and then their are the millions of “WORTHY” temple married mormons who have been “exhalted” into more Gods, They are really henotheists.
They beleive that no matter how many Gods there are, they only worship one God, “heavenly Father, the only God with whom they have to do”. Which to mormons means they are not polytheists.
To mormons it matters not how many Gods you beleive in, but how many Gods you actually worship.
So of course Mormons are not really Christians, unless you take your definition of “Christian” from a secular dictionary or redefine Christian enough to remove all real meaning from the word.
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
Latter-day Saints believe in one supreme God. He is God the Father. Associated with the Father are his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. These three constitute the Godhead, the governing council of the universe. The personages in the Trinity are distinct personalities, but they are as one because they are united in all things of faith and action. In Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie wrote:
Though each God in the Godhead is a personage separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are “one God” meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fulness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgement, mercy, and faith. Accordingly they all think, act, speak, and are alike in all things; and yet they are three separated and distinct entities. Each occupies space and is and can be in but one place at one time, but each has power and influence that is everywhere present. The oneness of the Gods is the same unity that should exist among the saints.( NT John 17) (BM 3 Nephi 28:10-11)
Joseph Smith said in a sermon on the subject of plurality of Gods:
“The doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine…There are Gods many and Lords many…But to us there is but one God …that is pertaining to us…and we are to be in subjection to that one.”
Simply a difference in believing that God is constantly putting on different hats pretending to be 3 different beings, or is really 3 different personages. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We believe they are three.
Before the Nicean Council the Catholic Church also believed there could be 3, but the Council decided once and for all there was only one God wearing 3 hats and playing all the parts of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I find it a lot easier to believe that God is not a confusing God, but very logical and believable. He is who He says He is, and Jesus Christ is His Son, the Holy Spirit is the mediator between our Father in Heaven and us. They are three, and LDS worship all three as One. BJ
Though each God in the Godhead is a personage separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are “one God” meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fulness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgement, mercy, and faith. Accordingly they all think, act, speak, and are alike in all things; and yet they are three separated and distinct entities. Each occupies space and is and can be in but one place at one time, but each has power and influence that is everywhere present. The oneness of the Gods is the same unity that should exist among the saints.( NT John 17) (BM 3 Nephi 28:10-11)
Joseph Smith said in a sermon on the subject of plurality of Gods:
“The doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine…There are Gods many and Lords many…But to us there is but one God …that is pertaining to us…and we are to be in subjection to that one.”
Simply a difference in believing that God is constantly putting on different hats pretending to be 3 different beings, or is really 3 different personages. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We believe they are three.
Before the Nicean Council the Catholic Church also believed there could be 3, but the Council decided once and for all there was only one God wearing 3 hats and playing all the parts of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I find it a lot easier to believe that God is not a confusing God, but very logical and believable. He is who He says He is, and Jesus Christ is His Son, the Holy Spirit is the mediator between our Father in Heaven and us. They are three, and LDS worship all three as One.
BJ
M
mlchance
Guest
BJ Colbert:
BJ Colbert:
– Mark L. Chance.
A nice summary of Mormon doctrine demonstrating quite clearly that said doctrine is contrary to authentic Christian doctrine. Kudos.
BJ Colbert:
The Catholic Church never taught that there were three separate gods, nor did any Church council ever declare that there is only “one God wearing 3 hats and playing all the parts of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
– Mark L. Chance.
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Smith as plagiarist
Smith plagiarised the book either: from the manuscript of another book relating to early American inhabitants which was stolen and altered, from the actual plates themselves, having inserted material not in the original, or from an unpublished novel about early American inhabitants which Smith read and from which he used ideas to compose the book. The unpublished novel was written by one Solomon Spaulding. However, Spaulding’s romantic novel has almost nothing in common to the Book of Mormon, with the exception of the story revolving around a group of seafaring Romans who sail to the New World around 2 millenia ago.
A substantial segment of the Book of Mormon, comprising 2 Nephi chapters 7, 8, and 12 through 24, match nearly word-for-word the chapters 50, 51-52:1-2, and 2 through 14 (respectively) of the Book of Isaiah as contained in the King James Translation of the Old Testament, which was published in 1611. This suggests the Joseph Smith may have simply plagiarized these sections from the Bible when authoring the Book of Mormon.
See Linguistics and the Book of Mormon for additional information and analysis on authorship.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon#Smith_as_plagiarist
**LDS - ** "Here are the Lamanites [native Americans]… Their wickedness was not so great as those [Jews] who slew the Son of God. …Is their curse as great as that of those in Palestine? No, it is light, in comparison. They began to thirst for each other’s blood, and massacred each other, from generation to generation, until they SUNK INTO WICKEDNESS, and EVIL principles the most DEGRADING, and have become LOATHSOME and VILE. Still THE CURSE WILL BE REMOVED from them before it will be removed from the children of Judah; and THEY WILL BECOME A “WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME PEOPLE.” LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143, 1854, emphasis added.
Reference: exmormon.org/blacks1.htm
Mormon’s racist Theology:
Reference: christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm
Smith plagiarised the book either: from the manuscript of another book relating to early American inhabitants which was stolen and altered, from the actual plates themselves, having inserted material not in the original, or from an unpublished novel about early American inhabitants which Smith read and from which he used ideas to compose the book. The unpublished novel was written by one Solomon Spaulding. However, Spaulding’s romantic novel has almost nothing in common to the Book of Mormon, with the exception of the story revolving around a group of seafaring Romans who sail to the New World around 2 millenia ago.
A substantial segment of the Book of Mormon, comprising 2 Nephi chapters 7, 8, and 12 through 24, match nearly word-for-word the chapters 50, 51-52:1-2, and 2 through 14 (respectively) of the Book of Isaiah as contained in the King James Translation of the Old Testament, which was published in 1611. This suggests the Joseph Smith may have simply plagiarized these sections from the Bible when authoring the Book of Mormon.
See Linguistics and the Book of Mormon for additional information and analysis on authorship.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon#Smith_as_plagiarist
**LDS - ** "Here are the Lamanites [native Americans]… Their wickedness was not so great as those [Jews] who slew the Son of God. …Is their curse as great as that of those in Palestine? No, it is light, in comparison. They began to thirst for each other’s blood, and massacred each other, from generation to generation, until they SUNK INTO WICKEDNESS, and EVIL principles the most DEGRADING, and have become LOATHSOME and VILE. Still THE CURSE WILL BE REMOVED from them before it will be removed from the children of Judah; and THEY WILL BECOME A “WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME PEOPLE.” LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143, 1854, emphasis added.
Reference: exmormon.org/blacks1.htm
Mormon’s racist Theology:
Code:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)**cannot escape their racist past.** For nearly **150 years,** the Mormon Church had taught that ***ALL blacks were cursed.*** Hence, a black Mormon male could not hold the highly regarded LDS Priesthood[1](http://www.christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm#1,) because of his dark skin. And since he could not hold this Priesthood, he could not enter the Mormon Temple. This doctrine in no way, shape, or form can be substantiated in Scripture. Only in LDS scriptures does this racist doctrine exist.
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
Since you brought up the subject that LDS believe all persons will become as God is I thought I would answer that partially with your own scripture from your own book called"Handbook for Today’s Catholics".
In his First Letter, Saint John says:“Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” 13:12 (164) It goes on to say that you as Catholics should strive always to be like God and follow His commandments to become like Him.
LDS, on the basis of biblical teaching and inspired modern-day revelation, constantly seek personal righteousness and progression. This improvement not only involves establishing the kingdom of God on the earth, but it is a pattern for eternity.
From our KJV bible it says in Romans 8:16-17 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so then we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” Paul is teaching a vital truth that we are children of God and that we can, through our choices which often bring the above-mentioned suffering, and through the grace of Christ, be heirs of the kingdom of God(see D&C 86;9)—even on the same level, as joint heirs, with Jesus Christ. That is what Mormons believe.
CS Lewis…a protestant theologian and Cambridge University professor wrote…
“The command Be ye Perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible)that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him—for we can prevent Him, if we choose—He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly…His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful;but that is what we are in for . Nothing less. He meant what He said.”
Our state after death is not an either/or proposition. Each individual is accorded a degree of glory, or a reward, that is commensurate with his or her faith in Jesus Christ and willingness to follow the commandments of God; thus, each of God’s children receives that which he or she is willing to receive. Some, because of their worthiness, will inherit “all that the Father hath”. When you have all that the Father has, then you are as the Father is.
The doctrine of eternal progression, as it has been revealed by the Lord through his appointed prophets, tells us that the work of the Lord goes on beyond this life. Our capacity to learn and grow and be productive after this life will be enhanced according to our earthly preparation. Family relationships will be eternal; husband and wives can be married, or sealed together forever. Children can be sealed to parents in an unending relationship. No loved on need be lost or parted from us for eternity! This glorious message is what Paul referred to when he said:“O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” NT, 1 Cor.15:55
To me the scriptures, yours included, tell us it is possible to become like our Father and although, most will not attain that perfection, it is possible, or He would not have commanded that we be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
BJ
In his First Letter, Saint John says:“Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” 13:12 (164) It goes on to say that you as Catholics should strive always to be like God and follow His commandments to become like Him.
LDS, on the basis of biblical teaching and inspired modern-day revelation, constantly seek personal righteousness and progression. This improvement not only involves establishing the kingdom of God on the earth, but it is a pattern for eternity.
From our KJV bible it says in Romans 8:16-17 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so then we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” Paul is teaching a vital truth that we are children of God and that we can, through our choices which often bring the above-mentioned suffering, and through the grace of Christ, be heirs of the kingdom of God(see D&C 86;9)—even on the same level, as joint heirs, with Jesus Christ. That is what Mormons believe.
CS Lewis…a protestant theologian and Cambridge University professor wrote…
“The command Be ye Perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible)that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him—for we can prevent Him, if we choose—He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly…His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful;but that is what we are in for . Nothing less. He meant what He said.”
Our state after death is not an either/or proposition. Each individual is accorded a degree of glory, or a reward, that is commensurate with his or her faith in Jesus Christ and willingness to follow the commandments of God; thus, each of God’s children receives that which he or she is willing to receive. Some, because of their worthiness, will inherit “all that the Father hath”. When you have all that the Father has, then you are as the Father is.
The doctrine of eternal progression, as it has been revealed by the Lord through his appointed prophets, tells us that the work of the Lord goes on beyond this life. Our capacity to learn and grow and be productive after this life will be enhanced according to our earthly preparation. Family relationships will be eternal; husband and wives can be married, or sealed together forever. Children can be sealed to parents in an unending relationship. No loved on need be lost or parted from us for eternity! This glorious message is what Paul referred to when he said:“O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” NT, 1 Cor.15:55
To me the scriptures, yours included, tell us it is possible to become like our Father and although, most will not attain that perfection, it is possible, or He would not have commanded that we be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
BJ
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
Semper Fi said:
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