Polygyny

[deb1]

Well what if a person’s penance was to give a certain amount in charity or fast a day or something, and on Sunday they hadn’t done it yet–they couldn’t take communion, right?

I don’t know for certain but I have refused to take communion because I feel that I need to go to confession. I’ve seen other people do the same thing. No one looks down on you for that because we have all been there and made mistakes. I’d rather someone refuse communion until they go to confession then take the host unworthily. I admire such a person.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Thanks for your answers. I’m still curious why confession, absolution, and penance are necessary, and sincere repentance is not enough?

 

[JimG]

Thanks for your answers. I’m still curious why confession, absolution, and penance are necessary, and sincere repentance is not enough?

Actually, as a Catholic, I believe that sincere repentence does forgive sin. Technically it is called “perfect contrition,” because it is repentance for sin because it offends God and not merely because we fear his punishment. But confession is necessary because it is the method given to us by Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. He told his Apostles, the first bishops–“whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ahhh…

as a Muslim, I believe that only God can forgive sins. But repentence, sincere repents requires a few things. First, feeling real regret for the sin, asking forgiveness from God, hating the sin and trying to avoid it from then on, and in some cases make up for it, like if you stole something to pay for it or return it.

 

[BeeSweet]

Ahhh…

as a Muslim, I believe that only God can forgive sins. But repentence, sincere repents requires a few things. First, feeling real regret for the sin, asking forgiveness from God, hating the sin and trying to avoid it from then on, and in some cases make up for it, like if you stole something to pay for it or return it.

That’s exactly how we feel about it. In addition though, Jesus left us the priesthood as a spiritual guide. The priest acts in the place of Jesus hearing our sins and giving us forgiveness. Jesus is God, He is the Word of God Incarnate. So when we approach the confessional, we approach God, the priest is only a tool.

To digress a bit further, the penance you describe about having to return or pay for something you’ve stolen, that sort of penance would in effect break the seal of the confessional. Confessions are between the penitent and God only, the priest can not prescribe a penance that would force the penitent to reveal his sin to anyone else. That’s not to say that the penitent can’t return, or pay for the stolen item, that would be up to him or her. A priest would most likely tell a penitent to donate to charity equal to what they have stolen, and certainly pray for the people from whom he or she has stolen.

There are many reasons why a person may not go up to accept Holy Eucharist, sin is just one reason. It would be sinful of us to judge why a person is not participating, so there should never be any fear of others looking down on you or gossiping about you. Some people have to make special arrangements because of an allergy, some folks may have already received, some may not be Catholic, there are many reasons. As Christians we are taught never to look down on others or gossip anyway, that’s just simply unloving.

 

[rinnie]

Ahhh…

as a Muslim, I believe that only God can forgive sins. But repentence, sincere repents requires a few things. First, feeling real regret for the sin, asking forgiveness from God, hating the sin and trying to avoid it from then on, and in some cases make up for it, like if you stole something to pay for it or return it.

We also beleive that only God can forgive sin Sister Amy but when we confess to a priest God works through him to forgive us our sins. Its like God uses a priest as a middle man. And no matter what you tell a priest he can not tell anyone. Thats why we can tell a priest anything. the reason its a good cleansing is because you can get something off your chest. You know how sometimes no matter how you pray you just need to tell someone. Thats what confessions like.

 

[steveandersen]

While the OT is full of stories of polygamy
Many of those stories don’t end well

Isaac and Ishmael
Joseph and his brothers

A legacy of jealousy and inheritance disputes

Thanks for your answers. I’m still curious why confession, absolution, and penance are necessary, and sincere repentance is not enough?

Humans are capable of a lot of self-deception
We can convince ourselves of almost anything

That is why we need a third person

 

[mark_a]

(By the way, I do actually support polygyny in Islam, although many Muslim women do not.)

Hello Sister Amy,

I am unfamiliar with cultures other than Catholic and otherwise American.

I have often wondered why polygamy is attractive to some women.

Could you give us your view?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m still not seeing why the priest is a necessary part of the equation, if God is forgiving the sin. If a person simply asks forgiveness of God, would God not forgive him?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Hello Sister Amy,

I am unfamiliar with cultures other than Catholic and otherwise American.

I have often wondered why polygamy is attractive to some women.

Could you give us your view?

Hello. I’d be happy to give you my view. Part of the reason I would choose polygamy for myself is that I want to pursue high-level academic studies, work, and travel (short-term) for my work. I’m also probably going to be living far away from my family, and have to travel back to see them, possibly alone if my husband is unable to travel with me because of his work–and it’s expensive, too. I respect that my husband would be lonely without me and that it would cause unnecessary tension if I am busy all that time instead of taking care of him. With a husband who spends every other night in another home, I would be free for my own studies and more personal time, things that are important to me.

For me, I don’t see that my value as a person comes from my husband, and that if I am not the only wife than I am somehow less of a woman. How can that be, if God has created me…?

If I happened to be a woman who were divorced or widowed, with children, I think I would definitely seek polygamy so that I would be able to have plenty of time with my children while also having a father figure in their life with me.

I don’t see why a man cannot commit himself to me and someone else at the same time–and also I trust that in Islam, the man is responsible for certain things. Love might not always be there–it’s not always there in a monogamous marriage–but the responsibility is always there, and I think trust is more important.

 

[deb1]

Hello. I’d be happy to give you my view. Part of the reason I would choose polygamy for myself is that I want to pursue high-level academic studies, work, and travel (short-term) for my work.

Lately, I’ve heard several career women exclaim that they would like a wife. They don’t mean this in the sexual sense but more because if one person remains home, it makes life a bit easier.

I’m also probably going to be living far away from my family, and have to travel back to see them, possibly alone if my husband is unable to travel with me because of his work–and it’s expensive, too.

The way I view marriage is that both the husband and wife should put the Marriage first, submitting one to another, looking out for each other’s needs first. So, neither a man or woman should take a career that they don’t both agree on the sacrifices involved.

Marriage, according to Catholic/Christian beliefs, is holy and represents God’ s union with the Church. In our Old Testament we have several analogies in which God describes his relationship with the Jewish people as a marriage and this is done in the New Testament as well. WHen ever God’s people worship idols God likens this betrayal to adultery. (I hope that made sense)

I respect that my husband would be lonely without me and that it would cause unnecessary tension if I am busy all that time instead of taking care of him. With a husband who spends every other night in another home, I would be free for my own studies and more personal time, things that are important to me.

Ideally, each spouse makes sacrifices for one another. One person shouldn’t feel over burdened to always tend to the needs of another. They both should be trying to make one another happy.

My hubby is in the military and has had to leave for long periods before. This is difficult but both of us have learned to cope. I think that difficult periods can bring spouses closer.

For me, I don’t see that my value as a person comes from my husband, and that if I am not the only wife than I am somehow less of a woman. How can that be, if God has created me…?

No, having or not having a husband doesn’t change your worth before God. I don’t think that you can do anything to make you less a woman.

If I happened to be a woman who were divorced or widowed, with children, I think I would definitely seek polygamy so that I would be able to have plenty of time with my children while also having a father figure in their life with me.

On the surface this does make sense. I grew up without my biological dad and endured several men coming in and out of my life. At the same time, statistically kids are more likely abused by stepparents, or live in boy/girlfriends.(I know several wonderful step parents, by the way) So, I am not certain that in actuality, pologamy would be better for these kids.

I don’t see why a man cannot commit himself to me and someone else at the same time–and also I trust that in Islam, the man is responsible for certain things. Love might not always be there–it’s not always there in a monogamous marriage–but the responsibility is always there, and I think trust is more important.

The man could probably commit himself to both women but he couldn’t be as fully commited as the Catholic Church envisions. My husband is my best friend and I love him very deeply. I don’t know if that would happen if I had to share him with another woman.

The debate might be mute anyway. If-as I think will eventually happen-our goverment allows same sex marriage, there will be no reason not to allow polygamy.

In Islam, isn’t a requirement of polygamy that the man be able to support all his wives? I ask because I know in some cults in Utah, there are families practicing polygamy and I’ve heard that many of them live off welfare.

 

[BeeSweet]

Hello. I’d be happy to give you my view. Part of the reason I would choose polygamy for myself is that I want to pursue high-level academic studies, work, and travel (short-term) for my work. I’m also probably going to be living far away from my family, and have to travel back to see them, possibly alone if my husband is unable to travel with me because of his work–and it’s expensive, too. I respect that my husband would be lonely without me and that it would cause unnecessary tension if I am busy all that time instead of taking care of him. With a husband who spends every other night in another home, I would be free for my own studies and more personal time, things that are important to me.

For me, I don’t see that my value as a person comes from my husband, and that if I am not the only wife than I am somehow less of a woman. How can that be, if God has created me…?

If I happened to be a woman who were divorced or widowed, with children, I think I would definitely seek polygamy so that I would be able to have plenty of time with my children while also having a father figure in their life with me.

I don’t see why a man cannot commit himself to me and someone else at the same time–and also I trust that in Islam, the man is responsible for certain things. Love might not always be there–it’s not always there in a monogamous marriage–but the responsibility is always there, and I think trust is more important.

Our tradition teaches this is the wrong attitude to approach marriage. You say you don’t see why a man cannot commit himself to you and another woman at the same time, but you yourself say the arrangement is preferable for you so you can commit yourself elsewhere to your own pursuits and not have to worry about your husband’s needs when it’s inconvenient for you to do so. I don’t intend to judge your personal motivations, I only use them as an example to illustrate the Catholic view. In marriage we give our whole selves to each other, not just that part of ourself which is convenient.

Marriage was instituted by God in the beginning between one man and one woman. Adam was not given Eve, Amy, Beth and Linda, he was only given Eve. This is how God instituted it in the beginning, and man through his hardheartedness decided what God gave him was not good enough, and he should try to improve on things. As usual, things went awry when man tried to improve on God’s perfection, and eventually man learned God’s way is best. Not easy, but best.

But in our tradition, marriage is also about children. So a marriage based on complete self giving love is meant as a model for our children to emulate. It’s a model for our children to emulate not only in their own marriage, but in how they live their lives.

Would you be as candid with your future spouse about your expectations of marriage and polygamy as you are here? What you describe as ideal sounds more like a business contract than a loving relationship between two people. Please don’t take offense to that remark, none is intended, that’s just the impression I get from your description.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m not really disputing that monogamy is the norm, or that there is anything wrong with it. I’m also not saying that polygamy is better than monogamy, but I think that some people would prefer polygamy. (I know I certainly don’t look at it the way that some other religions do… the people who practice it out in Utah and whereever, offshoots of LDS Church.)

But I do think it is an option for some people.

In Islam, a man is responsible for his wife and children (and any other wives, and children). He bears the full brunt of financial responsibility. He has to be able to support his wives equally if he takes more than one. That means if one has a 3-br 2bath household, then the other one gets a 3-br 2bath house. He has to spend equal time with each.

I do think marriage involves sacrifices, and I agree with the poster above who said that spouses should recognize that. But I recognize that I want to do certain things that could cause a strain on my husband, and I do enjoy a certain amount of autonomy more than a lot of women I think. I wouldn’t expect any less of a commitment from my husband, ultimately just less time with him.

 

[Sister_Amy]

But in our tradition, marriage is also about children. So a marriage based on complete self giving love is meant as a model for our children to emulate. It’s a model for our children to emulate not only in their own marriage, but in how they live their lives.

Would you be as candid with your future spouse about your expectations of marriage and polygamy as you are here? What you describe as ideal sounds more like a business contract than a loving relationship between two people. Please don’t take offense to that remark, none is intended, that’s just the impression I get from your description.

I am actually engaged, and I have been very candid with him about my expectations. We were very ‘candid’ about our expectations in marriage before we even fell in love, before we got engaged, and found a match because of our overall agreement.

In Islam, marriage is a kind of contract–both sides having a responsibility to fulfill. Both spouses have rights over the other.

I am sure that my fiance will be a great father, teaching his sons to respect women, and respecting his daughters to give them confidence in the world.

I don’t think that he loves me any less because of polygamy, nor do I love him any less for it.

 

[BeeSweet]

I am actually engaged, and I have been very candid with him about my expectations. We were very ‘candid’ about our expectations in marriage before we even fell in love, before we got engaged, and found a match because of our overall agreement.

In Islam, marriage is a kind of contract–both sides having a responsibility to fulfill. Both spouses have rights over the other.

I am sure that my fiance will be a great father, teaching his sons to respect women, and respecting his daughters to give them confidence in the world.

I don’t think that he loves me any less because of polygamy, nor do I love him any less for it.

You discussed marriage before you were in love with each other?

 

[BeeSweet]

What does Islam teach about divorce?

 

[Sister_Amy]

You discussed marriage before you were in love with each other?

Of course! We discussed marriage first. We were both looking for someone to marry and that’s the only reason we started talking in the first place is that we were looking to get married.

And we agreed on much, especially our outlook on the world with regard to Islam, and our understanding of Islam and so on, and on even basic details like child discipline.

Muslims do not date, do not interact with the opposite sex outside of family members hardly at all–there isn’t social activity between men and women and a man and woman are not supposed to be alone, ever, unless they are related. They come together to find a spouse and then get married.

 

[Sister_Amy]

What does Islam teach about divorce?

It’s allowed but only as a last resort. There are some things that the couple is supposed to do first to try to resolve the problems, but if it doesn’t work the man can divorce his wife. They have up to 3 months of a separation waiting period, after which it’s final. They can take each other back in that time. A woman can divorce her husband, either asking him to divorce her, or if he refuses that then she can go to the authority who will mediate and possibly impose the divorce on the husband. The waiting period in that case is only 1 month according to some scholars.

If a man divorces his wife, she keeps the dowry (part of the purpose of a dowry) he paid to her at marriage. If she divorces him, she has to give it back. The man retains the full financial responsibility for the children, but not for the wife.

 

[mark_a]

Hello. I’d be happy to give you my view. Part of the reason I would choose polygamy for myself is that I want to pursue high-level academic studies, work, and travel (short-term) for my work. I’m also probably going to be living far away from my family, and have to travel back to see them, possibly alone if my husband is unable to travel with me because of his work–and it’s expensive, too. I respect that my husband would be lonely without me and that it would cause unnecessary tension if I am busy all that time instead of taking care of him. With a husband who spends every other night in another home, I would be free for my own studies and more personal time, things that are important to me.

For me, I don’t see that my value as a person comes from my husband, and that if I am not the only wife than I am somehow less of a woman. How can that be, if God has created me…?

If I happened to be a woman who were divorced or widowed, with children, I think I would definitely seek polygamy so that I would be able to have plenty of time with my children while also having a father figure in their life with me.

I don’t see why a man cannot commit himself to me and someone else at the same time–and also I trust that in Islam, the man is responsible for certain things. Love might not always be there–it’s not always there in a monogamous marriage–but the responsibility is always there, and I think trust is more important.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

[BeeSweet]

Of course! We discussed marriage first. We were both looking for someone to marry and that’s the only reason we started talking in the first place is that we were looking to get married.

And we agreed on much, especially our outlook on the world with regard to Islam, and our understanding of Islam and so on, and on even basic details like child discipline.

Muslims do not date, do not interact with the opposite sex outside of family members hardly at all–there isn’t social activity between men and women and a man and woman are not supposed to be alone, ever, unless they are related. They come together to find a spouse and then get married.

What about work? Men and women do not interact with each other at work?