Polytheism

[FireFromHeaven]

An atheist argued that the ancient Israelite were polytheistic and became monotheistic after exposure to Zoroastrianism. Here is his full argument.
Actually Judaism as we have it today is entirely different from what 1250 BCE when their chief God was El and their tribal God was Yawwu. The earliest writings of these people are those from Ugarit which was the main center of the Canaanites before they were practically wiped out by the “Sea People”. These people practiced Polytheism until their encounter with the Persians Zoroastrianism when they were allowed to go to Palestine and erect the old Canaanite temple again. At this time they practiced monolatry, the worship of one among several Gods. After the encounter with the Greeks they had to create a new history in order to qualify for certain rights and since their history had been lost at the time of the Sea People they fabricated a new history from memory and as augmented by material from Alexandria. They were still practicing Monolatry at the time of the DSS until at least Masada of 135 CE.

here’s a link I found summarizing the ideas. patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/04/wait-thats-in-the-bible-israelite-polytheism-or-monotheism/

Can someone point me to resources refuting this idea?

 

[billcu1]

An atheist argued that the ancient Israelite were polytheistic and became monotheistic after exposure to Zoroastrianism. Here is his full argument.
Actually Judaism as we have it today is entirely different from what 1250 BCE when their chief God was El and their tribal God was Yawwu. The earliest writings of these people are those from Ugarit which was the main center of the Canaanites before they were practically wiped out by the “Sea People”. These people practiced Polytheism until their encounter with the Persians Zoroastrianism when they were allowed to go to Palestine and erect the old Canaanite temple again. At this time they practiced monolatry, the worship of one among several Gods. After the encounter with the Greeks they had to create a new history in order to qualify for certain rights and since their history had been lost at the time of the Sea People they fabricated a new history from memory and as augmented by material from Alexandria. They were still practicing Monolatry at the time of the DSS until at least Masada of 135 CE.

here’s a link I found summarizing the ideas. patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/04/wait-thats-in-the-bible-israelite-polytheism-or-monotheism/

Can someone point me to resources refuting this idea?

Why would you want to refute history? No Abraham wasn’t a monotheist. In your definition of the word. There’s never really been any polytheists in the sense that they believe in ont GOD the first cause as we do. The gods…well that’s a different subject. Their more like a race. And did he say he was an atheist or are you saying it. Doesn’t sound atheist to me. Sounds like you need to ask a few more questions.

Bill

 

[FireFromHeaven]

He said he was an atheist. But he claims that the Bible supports polytheism? Wouldn’t that go against Catholicism?

 

[CatholicWhovian]

He said he was an atheist. But he claims that the Bible supports polytheism? Wouldn’t that go against Catholicism?

How can the Bible support polytheism if the Israelites destroyed so many idols throughout Scripture? It’s like saying God is anti-Semetic while the Israelites are His chosen people. The statement contradicts itself.

 

[billcu1]

How can the Bible support polytheism if the Israelites destroyed so many idols throughout Scripture? It’s like saying God is anti-Semetic while the Israelites are His chosen people. The statement contradicts itself.

Idols? What is an idol? Do you know God’s ways? His ways are not our ways. An idol is anything that stands between you and God. Are the Israelites God’s people? It depends on who you ask. In the old testament yes. In Christianity some say yes some say he turned away. I’m only trying to get you to think. God said he would appear to those who seek. Not to those who stand in temples and cry Lord Lord. Everything has been changed over the ancient peoples history. David’s God was worshiped after the kingdom began. Was that Abraham’s God El ? No. But they all knew there was one “first cause”. In that sense there’s never been polytheists. It’s a term created as propaganda. And they had it in the times of the Judges, the prophets, the kings. And so on. God tells his people what they need to know how and when they need to know it. Like a parent and child. A parent will say no to fire and not let the child turn on the stove. But does that mean as an adult Stoves are evil and can’t be used? Jesus said to Peter ( the left hand) about John (the right hand) “What is it to you if I would have him live until I return? Follow me.”
Peter was inquiring outside of what he was to know. There are many things the church hasn’t been told and aren’t supposed to know.

HTH some anyway
God Bless+

 

[billcu1]

He said he was an atheist. But he claims that the Bible supports polytheism? Wouldn’t that go against Catholicism?

I don’t think the Bible was meant or translated over the various times of church and Hebrew and ancient history to favor polytheism. If you look back over it millennia names has been misunderstood and rewritten to mean various things. Does that mean God can’t use it to communicate to us then? I would not jump to conclusions. God appears to who he wants to as he wants too. One should not limit God. It’s best to just follow. DId God appear to Mohammed? Jesus would probably tell you “Don’t worry about such things. Follow me.” I would say I don’t see why not. Yes I believe he did. But it’s so different from Catholicism. God has his ways. He sees fit to do as he feels. God appears to whom he chooses as he chooses. We are different people at different times and God is well aware of that.

That’s kind of off what we were speaking about. He said he is an atheist. I would probably have laughed at him and asked him to explain himself. Thomism has some pretty good ways at “proving God”.

Bill

 

[Seraphim73]

It’s probably true that the ancient Israelites were polytheistic. I’m not sure what point this person is trying to make. Why would you need to refute that?

 

[billcu1]

He said he was an atheist. But he claims that the Bible supports polytheism? Wouldn’t that go against Catholicism?

The “Idols” were the historical truth of history. Destroyed to hide the truth. In the last days knowledge will abound. David had his God and wanted NO competition.

Bill

 

[billcu1]

An atheist argued that the ancient Israelite were polytheistic and became monotheistic after exposure to Zoroastrianism. Here is his full argument.
Actually Judaism as we have it today is entirely different from what 1250 BCE when their chief God was El and their tribal God was Yawwu. The earliest writings of these people are those from Ugarit which was the main center of the Canaanites before they were practically wiped out by the “Sea People”. These people practiced Polytheism until their encounter with the Persians Zoroastrianism when they were allowed to go to Palestine and erect the old Canaanite temple again. At this time they practiced monolatry, the worship of one among several Gods. After the encounter with the Greeks they had to create a new history in order to qualify for certain rights and since their history had been lost at the time of the Sea People they fabricated a new history from memory and as augmented by material from Alexandria. They were still practicing Monolatry at the time of the DSS until at least Masada of 135 CE.

here’s a link I found summarizing the ideas. patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/04/wait-thats-in-the-bible-israelite-polytheism-or-monotheism/

Can someone point me to resources refuting this idea?

I’m sorry that you wanted info to refute this claim. I’m just not sure that your person you were talking to is in reality totally wrong. The ancients are still quite mysterious
God Bless+

 

[FireFromHeaven]

He’s elaborated on his point a bit more. He’s saying that the Israelite religion was just Canaanite polytheism that became monotheistic due to contact with Zoroastrianism. He also is claiming that all the previous Babylon Ian captivity stories were cobbled together to fulfill a Selucid requirement for religious recognition or something like that. Here’s his full post.

In summary ; what we know as Judaism is a reworking of the ancient Canaanite legends and beliefs. A major reworking was done after the Canaanite/Israeli returned from Babylon after the encounter and adaptation of some Zoroastrian aspects. During the Seleucid period of history they required to provide evidence of being an ancient tribe/culture so they employed material from Alexandria to further augment their history. For obvious reasons they had lost their old legends after they were sacked by the Sea People about 1250 BCE. Since the DSS material indicate the revisions were not complete as late as Masada 135 CE it is quite safe to say that Judaism as we have it today was not completed by the Israeli.

 

[billcu1]

He’s elaborated on his point a bit more. He’s saying that the Israelite religion was just Canaanite polytheism that became monotheistic due to contact with Zoroastrianism. He also is claiming that all the previous Babylon Ian captivity stories were cobbled together to fulfill a Selucid requirement for religious recognition or something like that. Here’s his full post.

In summary ; what we know as Judaism is a reworking of the ancient Canaanite legends and beliefs. A major reworking was done after the Canaanite/Israeli returned from Babylon after the encounter and adaptation of some Zoroastrian aspects. During the Seleucid period of history they required to provide evidence of being an ancient tribe/culture so they employed material from Alexandria to further augment their history. For obvious reasons they had lost their old legends after they were sacked by the Sea People about 1250 BCE. Since the DSS material indicate the revisions were not complete as late as Masada 135 CE it is quite safe to say that Judaism as we have it today was not completed by the Israeli.

In the babylonian captivity the beliefs changed. And in Egypt they mixed with Egyptian religion. Remember all these people come from the same loins. Adam from the beginning. So nobody has really been polytheistic as far as not knowing there is one GOD. The “first cause” as we call it. There’s a difference in the people and the kings. For example the Israelites kings have been kept all down through the years. The crown prince of Israel that would be on the throne if the kings were reestablished, well his name is John. He was a US Marine. This is between me and you. You have seen the linage of Kings from Adam to Jesus. I have seen from Jesus through all the European lines down to the present John. Hope that makes sense.

So I don’t understand why he’s an atheist. Does he not believe in a first cause? That is pure act? I don’t mean the gods. They are our “galactic lineage” but everything comes down to ONE. You might tell him that all these people in the beginning started from the same place believing the same thing. Adam and his “God”. Now the Genesis story has changed a lot over the millennia.

Bill

 

[Seraphim73]

He’s elaborated on his point a bit more. He’s saying that the Israelite religion was just Canaanite polytheism that became monotheistic due to contact with Zoroastrianism. He also is claiming that all the previous Babylon Ian captivity stories were cobbled together to fulfill a Selucid requirement for religious recognition or something like that. Here’s his full post.

In summary ; what we know as Judaism is a reworking of the ancient Canaanite legends and beliefs. A major reworking was done after the Canaanite/Israeli returned from Babylon after the encounter and adaptation of some Zoroastrian aspects. During the Seleucid period of history they required to provide evidence of being an ancient tribe/culture so they employed material from Alexandria to further augment their history. For obvious reasons they had lost their old legends after they were sacked by the Sea People about 1250 BCE. Since the DSS material indicate the revisions were not complete as late as Masada 135 CE it is quite safe to say that Judaism as we have it today was not completed by the Israeli.

What is the point of what this individual is saying. It is probably true that they were polytheistic. I’m just not understanding why they are arguing it.

 

[ericc]

He’s elaborated on his point a bit more. He’s saying that the Israelite religion was just Canaanite polytheism that became monotheistic due to contact with Zoroastrianism. He also is claiming that all the previous Babylon Ian captivity stories were cobbled together to fulfill a Selucid requirement for religious recognition or something like that. Here’s his full post.

In summary ; what we know as Judaism is a reworking of the ancient Canaanite legends and beliefs. A major reworking was done after the Canaanite/Israeli returned from Babylon after the encounter and adaptation of some Zoroastrian aspects. During the Seleucid period of history they required to provide evidence of being an ancient tribe/culture so they employed material from Alexandria to further augment their history. For obvious reasons they had lost their old legends after they were sacked by the Sea People about 1250 BCE. Since the DSS material indicate the revisions were not complete as late as Masada 135 CE it is quite safe to say that Judaism as we have it today was not completed by the Israeli.

And the evidence to support all these assertions? Under Moses charge, they were monotheistic, believing in the God of Abraham. And Moses 5 books started Judaism. If the atheist is to be believed, then he has to provide evidence for the chronological development of Judaism from Zoroastrianism. Conjectures abound on the web.