Poor education in the catholic faith and non-catholics

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uglygal

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Whenever a question is raised about Catholicism by a non-catholic, I find a counter question invariably arises in the subsequent conversation – “are you sure you received a proper education in the catholic faith?”

This is my question - Is poor catechesis really so common in the catholic faith? And if so, is not anti-catholicism, to a degree, a child of your own making?

I would also like to hear from catholics as to why such comments are made to non-catholics, and i would like to hear from non-catholics - can you honestly say you did not receive a poor education and/or how do/did you feel when such a comment is directed at you?

Thankyou 🙂
 
It has been my experience that the vast majority of the adherents of any religion are largely ignorant of its tenets. I often talk to church-going Evangelicals at work who are sure that the bible is all they need, but they have never read it and have no clue as to what it says. So Catholics are not unique in this regard.

Those Evangelicals are always amazed that I, a Catholic, do read and study the bible daily. They are taught that Catholics do not read the bible or believe in the bible.

Go figure,
Paul
 
Whenever a question is raised about Catholicism by a non-catholic, I find a counter question invariably arises in the subsequent conversation – “are you sure you received a proper education in the catholic faith?”

This is my question - Is poor catechesis really so common in the catholic faith? And if so, is not anti-catholicism, to a degree, a child of your own making?

I would also like to hear from catholics as to why such comments are made to non-catholics, and i would like to hear from non-catholics - can you honestly say you did not receive a poor education and/or how do/did you feel when such a comment is directed at you?

Thankyou 🙂
As a catholic, I find it funny when one catholic points to a non-catholic or an ex-catholic and claims they are ignorant of the church or poorly “catechised”. It is almost as though they are saying that the exC or n-C are stupid, as if the “truth” of the church is mathematically apparent and they (ex or non-catholics) weren’t educated in basic arithmetic.

Like St. Peter (the first pope) said: “I see that God shows no partiality. Rather, in every nation whoever is in awe of God and acts in an upright way is acceptable to God”.

This is the catholic’s cue to start in on such unprovable concepts such as “fullness of faith” etc…
 
question, isnt this sorta like a person stating that a person who was saved, really wasnt saved in the first place?

I wonder if it all has something to do with lack of responsibility.

Then again wasnt it said that the seeds fall and grow differentely?

🤷
 
Poor education is not limited to the Catholic Church. All over America, the schools are failing the people, but I won’t get into that.

See, part of the problem is that for a period of time in America, the schools of religion were more about teaching pop psychology and hippy stuff than the actual faith. Poorly formed Catholics are not Catholic for long. For the last few years (10 or so I would say) there has been a revival of teaching. It doesn;t help that Americans have no grasp of philosophy and that kids are not taght how to think or reason, only memorise. But, with regards to the non-Catholic issue, that is different. I live in an area where Catholics are less than 6% of the population. I will tell you this: the preachers in this part of the country have no issue making up stuff about what we beleive. Now you can go into any bookstore and buy the catechism and EWTN is in town, but they hold to what they were told by others who did not learn it either. I was even told by a FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE PREACHER that he knew better what the Catholics believed than I did BECAUSE he could not read it!! I asked him how he knew what was in the Bible, and I thought he was going to hit me.
 
Like St. Peter (the first pope) said: “I see that God shows no partiality. Rather, in every nation whoever is in awe of God and acts in an upright way is acceptable to God”.

This is the catholic’s cue to start in on such unprovable concepts such as “fullness of faith” etc…
What a splendid quote … I need to memorize this. Thank you very much for it!
 
I am of the opinion that poor religious teaching by the Church is a form of spiritual abuse. It is very damaging for a person spiritually to be taught poorly, rightfully reject such teaching and then have it dismissed as “oh well, you weren’t educated properly, here let us try again”. It is like being asked to expose yourself to being raped again.

If instructing the ignorant is a form of charity/mercy according to catholic faith, then what is poor instruction that sows much destruction. Is that “instructor” guilty of mortal sin?
 
<<It has been my experience that the vast majority of the adherents of any religion are largely ignorant of its tenets. I often talk to church-going Evangelicals at work who are sure that the bible is all they need, but they have never read it and have no clue as to what it says. So Catholics are not unique in this regard.

Those Evangelicals are always amazed that I, a Catholic, do read and study the bible daily. They are taught that Catholics do not read the bible or believe in the bible.>>

You made a VERY good point, PaulDupre.
 
<>

And so on.

Uglygal, you are making a good point. However, all the courses and catechetics in the world won’t work if people are simply not listening and paying attention or make any effort at all to learn.
 
I have had the"are you sure you weren’t poorly catechetised" line offered to me many times. In the beginning, my reaction was " How would I know?", because if all you’ve been taught is the wrong way, how can one recognize the right?

But over time, and with study on my own, I see that there were many holes in my Catholic education. Not a lot of misinformation, but quite a bit of lack of information.

I see this blamed on all manner of things, including that for a number of years maybe even decades the Catholic seminaries themselves were promoting all sorts of nonCatholic nonsense. I have no way of knowing if that is true.

I do know that my class studied the Catechism prior to confirmation, and honestly that is when my biggest doubts arose, when I saw the actual teachings hammered out in black and white. And further study had led me farther, not closer to coming back into the faith.

If what the church claims is true, that they are the one true church, with the Real Presence and the fullness of truth…I think they will indeed be held accountable for bandying with it. If they cannot, or do not even hold control over what is taught in the seminaries…then I question, if a priest is incorrectly catechetised (and seminary is no short and simple process), are his holy orders valid?

And if indeed people, at confirmation, are pledging to be soldiers for Christ and even die for the faith…can that be valid if they have not been taught the truth of the faith?

I have often asked…“Will the Real Catholic Church” please stand up. Just what does constitute the Catholic Church, because when issues arise, I hear excuses like, “well, of course people make mistakes”, “oh, that was when there was faulty catechism”, “Oh, imprimatur and nil obstat doesn’t mean that what the book teaches are the real teachings of the church” and even “THAT catechism was the one written to appeal to Protestants…don’t listen to that one.”

OK…!

Makes the real teachings that are true and infallible a little hard to track down, and apparently the bottom line is “TRUST NO ONE”.

So, how do I feel when I hear “you probably were poorly catechetised.”

I feel frustrated, confused, cheated, angry.

How do I know if any of what I’ve read, heard, etc is this Fullness of Truth?

Is “Catholicism for Dummies” which I have often seen recommended, the answer?

I’ve spent a lot of time and energy studying Catholicism…but am still told I know nothing.

I have come to the conclusion that that is the fall back response given to anyone who left the faith, it puts all the responsibility on them, keeps one from having to take anything they say seriously, and having to engage in honest discussion with them over issues and experiences.
 
<>

And so on.

Uglygal, you are making a good point. However, all the courses and catechetics in the world won’t work if people are simply not listening and paying attention or make any effort at all to learn.

Yes your right of course 🙂 If someone is unwilling to learn or listen or intentionally mis-interprets everything to suit their own perceptions, than the fault absolutely does not lie with the instructor but the intentional ignorance of the student.

My question was forwarded in the context of non-catholics who genuinely learned and were given poor (heretical?) instruction. 🙂
 
Whenever a question is raised about Catholicism by a non-catholic, I find a counter question invariably arises in the subsequent conversation – “are you sure you received a proper education in the catholic faith?”

This is my question - Is poor catechesis really so common in the catholic faith? And if so, is not anti-catholicism, to a degree, a child of your own making?

I would also like to hear from catholics as to why such comments are made to non-catholics, and i would like to hear from non-catholics - can you honestly say you did not receive a poor education and/or how do/did you feel when such a comment is directed at you?

Thankyou 🙂
We have lost two generations - TWO - through faulty teaching about our Faith. And yes, poor catechesis is common. Why? Because most of the teachers don’t know it themselves and embrace practically every fad that comes into the religious education department.

Here is a good example: how many catechetical teachers have actually taught that the abbreviation for A.D. is “After Death”? How stupid is THAT? Yet, it is widespread across the board.

How many catechetical teachers have taught that WE are the Eucharist? Or that the Eucharist is NOT the True Presence of Christ for us - body, blood, soul, and divinity? (Actually, not taught against it per se, but definitely ignored in the course of instruction). How many catechetical teachers have taught that Mary’s Immaculate Conception meant that she too had a Virgin Birth? How many catechetical teachers have taught recently that the Church has disbanded its authentic teaching on Purgatory? How many catechetical teachers have taught that missing Mass on Sunday or holyday are NOT mortal sins, and neither is sex before marriage?

You think I am kidding on all this? Personal experience has shown me otherwise. We are in deep trouble in this country.
 
We have lost two generations - TWO - through faulty teaching about our Faith. And yes, poor catechesis is common. Why? Because most of the teachers don’t know it themselves and embrace practically every fad that comes into the religious education department.

Here is a good example: how many catechetical teachers have actually taught that the abbreviation for A.D. is “After Death”? How stupid is THAT? Yet, it is widespread across the board.

How many catechetical teachers have taught that WE are the Eucharist? Or that the Eucharist is NOT the True Presence of Christ for us - body, blood, soul, and divinity? (Actually, not taught against it per se, but definitely ignored in the course of instruction). How many catechetical teachers have taught that Mary’s Immaculate Conception meant that she too had a Virgin Birth? How many catechetical teachers have taught recently that the Church has disbanded its authentic teaching on Purgatory? How many catechetical teachers have taught that missing Mass on Sunday or holyday are NOT mortal sins, and neither is sex before marriage?

You think I am kidding on all this? Personal experience has shown me otherwise. We are in deep trouble in this country.
I know that you are not kidding. I once had a teacher tell me that if they stood up there with a snickers bar and a coke with the same idea and premise that it would make no difference to the outcome.
 
Gal,

This is a very good question and please note how diligently it has been avoided.

Rather than answering it the usual response has been, “But everyone is doing it!”

I’ve found that on every issue that makes them uncomfortable and that has no easy answer, from priestly sex abuse to the way Pius XII dealt with the Nazi’s, this is normally the apologetic of choice.
 
I am starting to get this very question in other posts I am seeking information in.
I knew it would come up sooner or later 😛

I have been asked, no actually, I have been **told **I do not know / have not been taught about the catholic faith properly, yet I was born a catholic and raised as one, completed my entire education in catholic schools, was a practicing Catholic for 24 years, went to Mass at least once every single week, for six years partook in 40 hour Eucharistic adoration hours and virtually possess a library of books, chaplets, prayer books, rosary beads, bibles, prayer cards and statues of the virgin Mary, Jesus, St Joseph, St Jude etc, partook in parish life, discerned with religious communities about becoming a nun … the list goes on

Therefore I still ask, perhaps for my sake, what went wrong? Is this so common? I know I am not the only one.

If two generations have been lost - is that not tentamount to a spiritual genocide?
Or if even one soul has been lost by such means, assuming the church is truth as it claims - is that not spiritual murder?


I much appreciate the answers/opinions people provide me with.

In God’s Truth 🙂
 
If two generations have been lost - is that not tentamount to a spiritual genocide?
Or if even one soul has been lost by such means, assuming the church is truth as it claims - is that not spiritual murder?


I much appreciate the answers/opinions people provide me with.

In God’s Truth 🙂

it’s not spiritual genocide; it’s more the result of stupidity and recklessness created by those falling for a false “spirit” of Vatican II. Not only did so many want to throw open the windows of the Church, they wanted to get rid of the windows all together. We are still suffering the effects of it although the pontificate of John Paul II has done a tremendous job on getting the people back on the right track.
 
Whenever a question is raised about Catholicism by a non-catholic, I find a counter question invariably arises in the subsequent conversation – “are you sure you received a proper education in the catholic faith?”

This is my question - Is poor catechesis really so common in the catholic faith? And if so, is not anti-catholicism, to a degree, a child of your own making?

I would also like to hear from catholics as to why such comments are made to non-catholics, and i would like to hear from non-catholics - can you honestly say you did not receive a poor education and/or how do/did you feel when such a comment is directed at you?

Thankyou 🙂
I think a “proper education in the Catholic faith” is lacking without someone to provide a strong witness to Christ’s sacrificial love. Not much of the Catholic education I received as a kid has stayed with me. What I can’t shake however, is the Prayer of St. Francis, or Mother Theresa’s offer to take unwanted, unborn American babies, or the generosity of my devout Catholic friends who, though they are raising eight children of their own, always manage to make room at their table for anyone dropping in around meal time.

The witness of these and other exemplary Catholics inspired me to dig deeper into the teachings of my faith.

Consider also the posters on CAF. Anyone who is able to state Church teaching impeccably while lacking respect for other posters will probably not cut much ice. On the other hand, solid Catholic teaching, presented charitably (by someone who really strives to live the Gospel message) plants seeds.

An infinite number of rosaries and prayer cards in your house pale in comparison to a shared, living faith. We Catholics should know better.
 
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