Poor formation of granddaughter in R.C.I.A

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I hope I’m posting this in the correct topic group.
I am upset! My granddaughter is to be baptized, confirmed and receive 1st Eucharist at the Vigil in a bit more than 2 weeks. She is 22 years old and has chosen to be a Catholic with an open and inquiring mind.
This morning she asks me if I think she should buy a Catechism to read because she knows nothing about it. The choice of a Saint name has not been discussed with her. She STILL does not understand Purgatory since all she knows is from a book I gave her. Her sponsor is apparently not much help to her. She asked me to come visit on Sunday after Mass so that she can “go over a few things”.
Why isn’t there an agenda of subjects and discussions, approved by Rome, for ALL R.C.I.A. groups?
Pray for us this Sunday as I attempt, in my own ignorance, to help her to understand and accept all the Church teachings I am able to impart in one afternoon. I myself am the only Catholic in the entire family and came into The Church myself only in 8/02.
The Church she’s been attending is on the other side of the valley where her boyfriend goes so I know nothing about it.
Any thoughts about this sad situation?
 
I followed the advice of a friend and decided to teach myself. am only following the RCIA because it is mandatory to join the Church.

All I hear in it’s classes is watered down double speak, there is NOTHING of substance in it and people who are honest and curious about the faith are left in limbo. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the RCIA program, starting with the instructors.
 
I am in RCIA. We get some patronizing dumbed-down leaflets from an outfit called Liguori Publications. My advice to everyone in RCIA: Put up with it if you have to. But read the Catechism for yourself. You’ll learn far more than you will from RCIA.
 
RCIa is presented by the Lectionary model; it uses the readings of the next week as the means of introducing people to the Church. It is designed to be a year - round program (and often is not), and the assumption is often made that a person will be ready to join the Church after participating.

However, if they are not attending a year - round program, and especially if they have not attended during the summer, they are going to be missing some things. For example, most of the readings which reflect on the Eucharist are during the summer, a time that many programs are not operating.

There have been some discussions as to whether the program needs to be changed. This often divides down political sides, rather than necessarily illuminating the issue. For example, those of a more progressive persuasion want to keep it as it is, as they are often uncomfortable talking about doctrines. The more conservative group often seems to want to teach doctrine, and dismiss the RCIA process altogether.

Both sides miss a lot of points. What we probably need is a program which continues the faith building aspects of the RCIA process, and adds more doctrinal formation.

Some RCIA programs do a lot better job of teaching the contents of the faith than others; this has some to do with the leaders of the program and how they structure catechesis. and some groups of candidates and catechumens assist the process better by asking questions.

One can know the Catholic Faith as well as the best trained theologians, but have no faith. One can also have great faith, without a hugh body of knowledge. The question becomes how much knowledge is necessary for an adult to commit to the Faith? That is not always easily answered. We also need to keep in mind that learning doesn’t stop at Confirmation, or acceptance into the Church; it is a lifelong process.

It is also helpful to keep in mind that there are many good and faithful Catholics who don’t know their faith as well as they could or should. They are, however, good and faithful Catholics.

If your granddaughter does not really feel that she is ready to join the Church, then she should wait and continue to learn. If she feels that she is ready to join after prayerful consideration, then she should join, and continue to learn.

Well done, the lectionary process will teach people the major points of the faith; but I would be careful of condemning the process too quickly, as she has some responsibility to ask questions as she goes through the process.

Be careful, too, of insitisting that she is not ready if she doesn’t know every lasst bit of the faith. She needs to know the essentials. And if she doesn’t, then she should continue her journey of studying, reflecting, praying, and the process of joining the Church.

Undserstand also, that there should be no fear if she does not join on Holy Sturday night, but elects to continue her studies. Should tyhe worst happen and she die before being baptized but while in RCIA, the Church would give her a funeral, as she is among the Elect. It is referred to as Baptism of Desire.
 
Wow, that is such a disappointing story. I’m going to be baptized etc on Easter Vigil as well, and I feel so prepared, I’m stumping my cradle Catholic hubby on stuff.

the CCC was handed out to us (along with a Bible) at our First Class! We’ve referred to it often. We’ve received about 4 other booklets on various topics through the year as well. We are lucky though, and have a Deacon teaching our class, he is so thorough, I think he could go on talking on these subjects for another hour beyond our class time.

If your RCIA class is that lacking, I would honestly meet with the priest of your parish and discuss this. He may not be fully aware of how unprepared the catecumen are at this point.
 
Thank you all so much for your comments, concerns and suggestions.

I seem to know too many “cradle” Catholics that don’t know the doctrines and dogmas of The Faith and I so wish that the neophites were catechized well so that they never find themselves in that hole of ignorance.

I’m going to the nearest Catholic bookstore Thursday and buy my grandaughter some books, starting with a Catechism!
 
Also, please send a letter to your bishop urging him to institute a program for both RCIA and religious education classes. There are too many differences between parishes and there should be a standard.
 
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catsrus:
I hope I’m posting this in the correct topic group.
I am upset! My granddaughter is to be baptized, confirmed and receive 1st Eucharist at the Vigil in a bit more than 2 weeks. She is 22 years old and has chosen to be a Catholic with an open and inquiring mind.
This morning she asks me if I think she should buy a Catechism to read because she knows nothing about it. The choice of a Saint name has not been discussed with her. She STILL does not understand Purgatory since all she knows is from a book I gave her. Her sponsor is apparently not much help to her. She asked me to come visit on Sunday after Mass so that she can “go over a few things”.
Why isn’t there an agenda of subjects and discussions, approved by Rome, for ALL R.C.I.A. groups?
Pray for us this Sunday as I attempt, in my own ignorance, to help her to understand and accept all the Church teachings I am able to impart in one afternoon. I myself am the only Catholic in the entire family and came into The Church myself only in 8/02.
The Church she’s been attending is on the other side of the valley where her boyfriend goes so I know nothing about it.
Any thoughts about this sad situation?
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There are many poor RCIA processes out there and many very good ones. Buy her a catechism (hardback) as a gift. Speak with her and suggest that she designate you as her Godparent for Baptism. The Godparent is usually the same person as the Sponsor. However Canon Law and the RCIA Rite itself allows the Catechumen to designate a different person if they so choose as Godparent. It is totally up to her, who her Godparent is. You may have to have your parish send a letter to the other parish stating that you are a member in good standing and meet the qualifications of Godparent. A parent may not be the Godparent of their own child but a grandparent can.

Also remember that the Easter Vigil is not an end to RCIA as much as it is a beginning of a Catholic lifetime.
 
Even in conservative and orthodox RCIA programs, it often seems to be the case that the candidates and catechumens are not as knowledgeable of the doctrines of the Faith as one would expect after 9 to 12 months of instruction.

To me, doctrine is the meat and potatoes of our Faith. If we know the liturgy, go through the readings on a (usually) “experiential” level, not an exegetical level, it is way too easy to end up not knowing the essentials of the Faith. There has to be a way to get good solid doctrinal formation into the RCIA. Do we need a ‘no catechumen left behind’ program with monthly tests?
 
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catsrus:
Any thoughts about this sad situation?
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How much class time has your daughter had? Say RCIA started in October and is every Sunday, with a few of them off for Christmas. Say each class is 45 minutes long once you omit procedural stuff, etc. So, how much time is that? 15 or 16 hours of instruction. Given that they must go over really basic stuff to be sure there is a base of knowledge, I’m not surprised that the knowledge gained is not too sophisticated by the end. It simply isn’t enough time. Catholicism is bigger than that.

How to fix it? I don’t know. It would help if the catechumens and the candidates were not lumped together in one class. But most parishes do that, I assume for lack of helpers.
 
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catsrus:
Thank you all so much for your comments, concerns and suggestions.

I seem to know too many “cradle” Catholics that don’t know the doctrines and dogmas of The Faith and I so wish that the neophites were catechized well so that they never find themselves in that hole of ignorance.

I’m going to the nearest Catholic bookstore Thursday and buy my grandaughter some books, starting with a Catechism!
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In the meantime, you could encourage her to look at the catechism online. I know www.salvationhistory.com has it and it has a search, so she/or you can search out a particular topic.

My RCIA class also handed out a Catechism and Bible and both were used along with leaflets that covered the Sacraments etc. Still, the Church is so deep that a person must research some on their own and give it lots of thought. I wished that we had more instruction about the Order of Mass, so that I could’ve felt more comfortable sooner. Just little things like where to find the creed in case I was nervous and couldn’t remember it or learning Hosanna. All those things add up and can make a person feel out of place and then they really miss putting focus on the main part of the Mass.

I hope you get the chance to inspire you to dig into the Catechism and she can search out all kinds of info. using the internet, but warn her about anti-catholic sites. Maybe suggest this one to her??
 
Wow. This probably isn’t the right place to do this, but, regardless…

I came into the Church 3 years ago this Easter. Went through RCIA in it:
–Sacrement of Reconsilliation downplayed (didn’t go to confession until months after the first time I received the Eucharist)
–I Didn’t learn that Mass was obligatory
–I Didn’t learn the Rosary
–I Went on a tour of our church (I do not attend this church anymore) and was explained as to why there is no crucifix in this particular Catholic church (Jesus is in Heaven).
–Didn’t learn the wafer & wine was the Body & Blood of Jesus (though, I may have been absent that day…but, doubtful).

In short, I really didn’t learn anything that I didn’t already know, or, the things that I did learn, weren’t too crucial to the Catholic faith. All I can say is be prepared for your granddaughter’s questions. Oh! Yeah, my sponsor was somebody through that church (I don’t have many Catholics in my family to whom I really talk…just location & life & such) and, I think he went through RCIA years ago & obviously didn’t object to how things were being done…
 
There is just no substitute for real Catholic teaching. This is one reason that I so strongly recommend the Catholic Home Study Service courses. They are FREE, Orthodox, and concise, and without pressure the person can learn at their own pace. They are so good that they make you hungry for the next one. amm.org/chss/chss.htm

Pax vobiscum,
 
Dear Cats,

I would pull her out post-haste. See if you can find a holy and loyal priest who accepts everything the Church teaches…everything, and has no problem with her disciplines either.

The Ligouri stuff is about as bad as anything from St. Anthony Messenger Press (most notably their “Catholic Updates”). They can be fine at times, but more often than not they are watered down to mish-mash and hodge-podge. They basically are still mired in the “religion is whatever you want to make of it” and “I’m okay-you’re okay” “your turth is your truth, and my truth is my truth”.

I know, I have sponsored a fellow once, and the program was terrible (using much of the aforementioned materials).

Here is an interesting article by Fr. Richard John Neuhaus on RCIA:

rc.net/metuchen/rcia/firstthings.html

Another here by Mark Shea:

siena.org/library/ssjun00/gauntlet.htm
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The Godparent is usually the same person as the Sponsor. .
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the sponsor is someone who represents the parish community who accompanies catechumen during the period leading up to Lent, acting as a sort of mentor in how to live out the demands of Christian living, helping incorporate them into the life of the parish. The sponsor’s role ends with lent, and the godparent takes over. There is probably no reason they could not be the same person (if otherwise qualified, and they should be if they are acting as a sponsor) but they are not envisioned as the same person or the same role.
If the person is already baptized and is a candidate for confirmation, they have a sponsor, who could be the same person who was with them during their formation, but does not have to be.
The suggestion that you offer to be the sponsor and make a gift of a Catechism and a good bible is an excellent one.

also bear in mind Easter is not “graduation” from study and growth in the faith, any more than confirmation is. It is the beginning of adult knowledge, learning and spiritual growth. The RCIA candidate or catechumen is not required to know every detail of Catholic doctrine in order to “graduate” or pass the test. They are required to know the elements of the Nicene Creed, their meaning and implication, because these are the foundation of the baptismal promises they make or renew at Easter.
 
We have a great RCIA program run at my parish, with dedicated and educated team leaders. I was a candidate last year and on the team this year.

As the director tells everyone throughout the process, “we have a limited time to teach a mountain of material, and each one of you has to take on the responsibility of self reading and asking questions of your sponsors or any team member.”

I am sorry your granddaughter in a part of a weak program, and yes, ALL RCIA programs should be consistant throughout the church, but that is not happening. Until there is uniformity within the program, each person entering the church must take it upon him/her self to study and ask questions.

The CCC is a complete book of the church, but very hard to understand sometimes and can be overwhelming to a new convert, at least it was for me.

Have you thought of being a Sponsor in next years program? Any candidate would benefit greatly from your knowledge and love of the faith.
 
also, how was your daughter’s attendance during her classes? I just had the unpleasant duty of informing those who had poor attendance, and by their own testimony have done none of the reading or study at home that they will not be receiving the sacraments at Easter. they also failed to attend the scrutinies and other rites of Lent. I asked them to come in for interviews with me and the deacon to try and assess their commitment to the process and their desire for the sacraments. We have two times a week to make-up missed sessions, but they have not availed themselves of this opportunity, nor of the retreat planned for them.

Home study and follow-up of the class is what we use the handouts from Liguori “Journey of Faith” for, as back up and home-study guide, not primary teaching source.
 
I see that not much has changed since I went through RCIA in 1983. It was almost like they were afraid of teaching us anything truly Catholic because it might run us off. The priest even said we didn’t have to go to Confession if we didn’t want to and they wouldn’t even teach us how to confess. We were also told that artificial contraception was OK as long as our conscience said it was OK.

I highly recommend to anyone going through RCIA to buy and read a Baltimore catechism. You might be ridiculed for it among the teachers of RCIA but that book contains the truth of what the church teaches.
 
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Pug:
How much class time has your daughter had? Say RCIA started in October and is every Sunday, with a few of them off for Christmas. Say each class is 45 minutes long once you omit procedural stuff, etc. So, how much time is that? 15 or 16 hours of instruction. Given that they must go over really basic stuff to be sure there is a base of knowledge, I’m not surprised that the knowledge gained is not too sophisticated by the end. It simply isn’t enough time. Catholicism is bigger than that.
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Ours started in August. They are once a week for 2 1/2 hours each. We had two weeks off at Christmas, that’s it. We were also given ‘recommended’ reading to do on our own.Our Deacon also made sure we all had his phone number in case we had any questions between classes. I’m pretty frustrated when I read about other classes that just don’t feel like they’re receiving proper instruction. But I would definately not take it quietly - make some noise, let’s get these parishes to shape up!
 
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