Poor formation of granddaughter in R.C.I.A

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krazykatlady:
I see that not much has changed since I went through RCIA in 1983. It was almost like they were afraid of teaching us anything truly Catholic because it might run us off. The priest even said we didn’t have to go to Confession if we didn’t want to and they wouldn’t even teach us how to confess. We were also told that artificial contraception was OK as long as our conscience said it was OK.
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YIKES!!! These are scary stories. We’re all required to go to confession prior to Easter (except those non baptized). Our Priest came in one night and gave quiet a lengthy talk, and NFP was a major theme!

~Very Thankful I’m in an orthodox parish/diocese. !!!
 
Hello, catsrus.

Teach her yourself. If you don’t feel that she is getting a proper foundation, don’t just buy her a copy of the Catechism. Take the time to sit down with her and teach her. Remember RCIA is the beginning of her journey. Make it your responsibility to help her along the path the rest of the way.

Tim
 
Hmmm, I’m a little surprised at some of the comments here. I can’t speak to the specific content of anyone’s RCIA curriculum, but it general it seems to be a lot more rigorous than what what a lot of non-Catholic churches require. And I would humbly submit that the “meat & potatoes” of our faith are the sacraments, most particularly the Eucharist. Surely one needs to know a bit of doctrine to appreciate these. But we baptize infants, and we give reconciliation and communion and sometimes confirmation to 7-yr-olds, and we trust that there is some ongoing formation and learning of doctrine after that. Remember the life of faith is not a race - I don’t think it’s the goal to make sure that at a person going through RCIA at age 40 knows as much doctrine as someone who has been raised Catholic and has been practicing for 40 years. That’s just not going to happen. The “I” in “RCIA” stands for “Initiation”. It’s a start, a beginning. It’s not meant to be like getting a PhD.

Now of course there shouldn’t be anything contrary to the faith taught in RCIA. If that happens, you should go to the pastor or bishop immediately. But if the intellectual content isn’t quite up to your standards, i.e. if it’s “dumbed down” a little, just remember that God didn’t bless everyone with the same razor-sharp intellect and brilliant mind that he gave to you. You don’t generally teach someone about chemistry by going straight to quantum mechanics, even if that would reflect the most technically correct understanding of the subject. Even some great saints like St. John Vianney were never great students or quick learners. If someone going through RCIA happens to be smarter than the average bear, than by all means, seek out more advanced material. But if you expect everyone to digest the entire Catechism plus the Summa Theologica plus the combined writings of Karl Keating and Jimmy Akin, all in one year, you’re going to lose a lot of your folks in RCIA.
 
Do we need a ‘no catechumen left behind’ program with monthly tests?
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Why, yes, I think we do!
When I went through R.C.I.A., it was my main focus and I did a lot of background work. My grandaughter is attending classes out of town to receive her teaching certification, student teaching, working part time as well as driving 40 miles to R.C.I.A. Her schedule is packed so I’m just thrilled she added R.C.I.A. to it. I will nail her down on issues she does not understand. It’s sooooo very important to me that she be 100% committed to what she’s doing because I certainly do not want her to end up a cafeteria catholic.
Thanks you guys!!
 
Bobby Jim:
Remember the life of faith is not a race
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whoops, let me qualify this before someone quotes St. Paul on me… I’m referring to a competition to see who can acquire more knowledge of doctrine - not referring to the more general issues of salvation and striving for holiness that St. Paul is referring to when he uses the “race” metaphor.
 
:rolleyes: Well, as far as teaching the basics, let me say, that when I was initiated that one Easter Vigil, you know how the first chapter of Genisis is read? Well, after, mmmm, the 4th day, one of my fellow Catecumens leans in next to me and asks, “Geez! How many days ARE there?”

:eek: 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮

A while later, she’s like, “Oh, 7.”

I mean, THAT is basic!! People should know this by this point, I think.

I understand that we’re not all at the same intellectual point or the same part of our spiritual journey, BUT, we take R.C.I.A. because we want to be practicing Catholics and profess all what the Church teaches to be true…how can we do that if we’re not taught ANY of that?!! Like I said before, not taught about the Body & Blood, not taught about the Rosary, not taught about obligatory Mass…nor Confession. What’s even the point of becomming Catholic w/o this info?
 
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mommy:
Ours started in August. They are once a week for 2 1/2 hours each. We had two weeks off at Christmas, that’s it. We were also given ‘recommended’ reading to do on our own.Our Deacon also made sure we all had his phone number in case we had any questions between classes. I’m pretty frustrated when I read about other classes that just don’t feel like they’re receiving proper instruction. But I would definately not take it quietly - make some noise, let’s get these parishes to shape up!
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Hey, that’s great! Your program gets way more hours than ours does. I am involved in RCIA (a team member for 4 years) in my parish as my way of doing something about it. Our program is currently orthodox, but sometimes it doesn’t seem that there is enough of it. The people get out of it what they put in. If they read stuff and come and ask questions of the team afterwards, they can learn lots of info. If they take a more passive approach, they’ll learn less.

To me it would seem that the bishops are in charge of how RCIA is run. I don’t really know how to influence that.

About the lady who didn’t know about the seven days of creation…that doesn’t surprise me, but not for the reasons one might think. People who study hard can still have the odd hole in their knowledge, especially if they are learning a lot in a short time period. Maybe they just missed that one fact. It doesn’t have to be representative of a ton of ignorance.
 
Although I have not read the bishops’ survey, it does seem that there is a consensus building nationally that the RCIA program needs some tuning up. It definitely needs to run longer than from some time in September to Easter. It also needs to determine what main points need to be brought up before the candidates and catechumens are facing Easter.

There are some comments in this thread that would seem to indicate a belief that anyone joining the Church needs to have a thorough and complete knolwedge of the Church before joining. Perhaps we should keep in mind that the early Church managed to grow up many holy people who didn’t know all of the doctrines, if for no other reason than the fact that those doctrines weren’t defined until much later. There are, however, essentials that one needs to know and accept before joining. The RCIA program properly taught should cover the majority of that information; and the rest should be brought in by supplimentation.

What also needs teaching is the fact that the learning needs to continue after Mystagogia, that it is a lifetime process. For a vast number of Catholics, it stopped at Confirmation.

Many of the problems mentioned in this thread are due to poor catechesis; this is a factor of priests, DREs and other leaders being poorly formed in the faith.

Other problems are intrinsic to the process (as opposed to the program), among them the different levels of knowledge of faith and past experience of faith, or lack thereof.

The class itself also can make a difference; one class has several inquisitive members, who bring along everyone else; another class has a reluctant member, or several who are very reticent, and they can hold a class back.

People who want this program rewritten or replaced too often have a 'one size fits all" mentality, and no program is going to suffice in that regard. Others want to emphasize doctrinal content, failing to understand that without faith building, doctrinal content is only so much head-knowledge. Christ did not call us to doctrinal expertise; He simply gave us two commands: “Love God with your whole heart, and love one another as I have loved you”. Obviously, knowledge of who God is, and who we are, and what love really means, and how one does that are all important. I would think that between the Creed, and the Sacraments, and major church disciplines, that should cover the majority of it.
 
adstrinity said:
:rolleyes: Well, as far as teaching the basics, let me say, that when I was initiated that one Easter Vigil, you know how the first chapter of Genisis is read? Well, after, mmmm, the 4th day, one of my fellow Catecumens leans in next to me and asks, “Geez! How many days ARE there?”

:eek: 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮 😮

A while later, she’s like, “Oh, 7.”

I mean, THAT is basic!! People should know this by this point, I think.

I understand that we’re not all at the same intellectual point or the same part of our spiritual journey, BUT, we take R.C.I.A. because we want to be practicing Catholics and profess all what the Church teaches to be true…how can we do that if we’re not taught ANY of that?!! Like I said before, not taught about the Body & Blood, not taught about the Rosary, not taught about obligatory Mass…nor Confession. What’s even the point of becomming Catholic w/o this info?
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You are right, the Sacraments and the Creed are essentials.

The Rosary is the best loved and most widely known devotion of the Church, and while it is not essential, it is probably in the minds of many seeking to join, if for no other reason than they don’t understand it. The questions that they bring need to be answered; sometimes the difficulty is getting them to ask the questions.
 
When my daughter-in-law went through RCIA 4 years ago, I was concerned that she wouldn’t get all she needed. So we took steps to help her as much as we could (our son, her husband, was also going through the program to be confirmed)…first we bought them a copy of the Catechism. Next, my husband served as their sponsor, and went to the classes with them. This was enormously helpful, because if something didn’t seem right or clear he could speak up right then. And we used time outside of class to talk over things they were learning, as well.

I also would recommend some good Catholic books and tapes…you can’t beat Father Corapi’s video series on the Catechism and also the series on the sacraments. They are like an RCIA course in themselves! Check out the EWTN website catalog for purchase info.

I wouldn’t be too upset that she didn’t learn how to say the rosary and other devotions and RCIA–devotions are personal–give her a rosary and pray it with her so she learns how. Share some of your other favorite devotions and tell her why you love them. When she sees how much you love all you’ve learned and want to share about the Catholic faith, it will keep her desire to learn and grow alive in the future.

This is just the beginning of her journey–share it with her!
 
Adstrinity makes some good points, and I am concerned that her experience with RCIA may be the norm rather than the exception. I’ve taught just a few of the RCIA sessions; and in those cases, it seemed that the handouts and exercises I was given to use were mainly fluff and feelings. Rather than use them I took advantage of the opportunity to see if there were any questions the candidates and catechumens still had about the Catholic Church—and they had a lot. When we bring adults into the Church we do them a disservice if we do not impart the basics of the Faith. I think that our parish RCIA is generally quite orthodox and better than most, but it still seems to lack an emphasis on imparting the basics.
 
I remember my RCIA class.

One of the students asked which version of the bible she should use.

One of the instructors told her, “Whichever one you’re comfortable with. I use the King James Version because I like the Thees and the Thous.”

“What about Douay-Rheims?”, I asked.

“Dewey what?”
 
I’ve never seen a DR bible for sale in a regular bookstore or a Christian/Catholic one. The only place I have seen one is for mail order, and also in Rockford, IL in an actual book factory. This RCIA person may have never heard of one for that reason.

Alternatively they perhaps thought that it was not available for general sale. I would have assumed you couldn’t buy them anymore, excepting the trip to the book factory (and nowdays the internet connection that I have).

I wish modern bookstores were better at offering a selection of bibles for Catholics. I wonder if it is because non-Catholics buy multiple bibles for themselves and Catholics ususally (;)) don’t, so non-Catholics drive the market for them?
 
Castrus,

You wrote,"Why isn’t there an agenda of subjects and discussions, approved by Rome, for ALL R.C.I.A. groups? "

Yes, why? Why isn’t there a list of Objectives for RCIA?

In the Public Schools there are lists of objectives for each course.

I know that in Chemistry there are over 60 Objectives to be met.

O know of no reason that Rome or RCIA itself could not supply sets of Objectives for formation. If left up to uneducated mentors things are left undone.
 
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Exporter:
Castrus,

You wrote,"Why isn’t there an agenda of subjects and discussions, approved by Rome, for ALL R.C.I.A. groups? "

Yes, why? Why isn’t there a list of Objectives for RCIA?

In the Public Schools there are lists of objectives for each course.

I know that in Chemistry there are over 60 Objectives to be met.

O know of no reason that Rome or RCIA itself could not supply sets of Objectives for formation. If left up to uneducated mentors things are left undone.
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That is because the RCIA is not a catechetical program. In reality the RCIA is in fact a liturgical Rite. The objective of it is simple FAITH and the Sacraments of Initiation.

The Rite simply says that the Catechumens and Candidates must be adequately Catechized, but leaves the Catechesis (content and method) up to the Catechetical program. Now that does not mean that I believe that there should be no structure or organization for the Catechesis of adults. To the contrary. I have been harping on Adult Catechesis for more than ten years, specifically the lack there of. In addition CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT has been a key piece for me. The Bishops issued a little document titled Basic Teachings for Catholic Religious Education in 1973 that I structured the adult Catechetical programs that I had any influence over around. When they issued To Teach as Jesus Did no one ever read it. As well as *Guidelines for Doctrinally Sound Catechetical Materials *which most “Faith Formation Directors” ignored.
 
It’s a good thing your grandaughter is interested enough to learn about the faith on her own, because if the RCIA program she’s in is anything like mine, it’s more likely to mislead her than to teach her anything worthwhile.
The people in charge of RCIA at my parish seemed to bend over backwards to make the Church seem modern and open-minded . There was a lot of “everyone has to follow their own conscience” and a lot of talk about how “old, celibate men don’t understand” why birth control and abortion are neccessary, and “someday we’ll have a woman for Pope and all that will change.” :mad: :rolleyes: I’m not kidding.
I put up with it because it’s required :banghead:- but I learned about the Catholic faith by reading on my own.
 
Pug – mmmm, okay, I can now see that it may have just been a lapse of 2 + 2 = 4 with the one woman. ALSO, I think that there are DR Bibles at a Christian bookstore (Love) in Kankakee, IL. It’s multi-denom among the two western branches of Christianity.

To everybody else, especially the one who suggested that the catecumens should do more reading…okay…maybe, there were hand outs for each person waiting for us on a table before each class. One of the weeks was an “How to say the Rosary” instructional thing (can’t even remember if we got a Rosary)…like, I already had a few of those…I didn’t need that…I wanted vocal instructions on how to do it. (I’ve since prayed the Rosary with groups of people in church). Also, there was an article along the lines of “Who was the Historical Jesus?” or “The Jesus of the Four Gospels”. We also had a quiz (I still have an extra one on the door of my room) one of the very firs classes, with such questions as “If God was a profession, what would He be?” and “If God was a tool, what would He be?” and, “If God was an animal, what would He be?” with multiple choices from which to choose. I remember the day confession was explained to us, one of the members of the church/sponsors and a priest acted out a scene and the example was “Father, my friend is cheating on her husband and I promised I wouldn’t tell, what should I do?” It was concluded with the priest giving her absolution, but, they didn’t tell us that we needed confession before the first Eucharist (or, IF they did, they really didn’t emphasise it). I still don’t know where the confessional is in that church (which isn’t a big deal, anyway, because, last I knew, they practice general absolution periodically).:rolleyes: …Have I griped about my RCIA experience enough or should I continue?

(sorry, everybody:o )
 
I went through RCIA nearly six years ago. If I were you, I’d take advantage of the several months after the Easter Vigil when things are still new and exicting. She will receive inumerable graces that night. Help her to respond to them by supplementing her religious education. Give her a gift certificate to the local Catholic bookstore and a list of things she might be interested in reading. Include the Catechism and maybe a couple of books by some well known converts like Scott Hahn.
 
As Br. Rich pointed out, the structure of RCIA is primarily liturgical. If done according to proper norms, liturgy will be primary, catechesis only secondary. I am beginning to wonder, though, whether this is a good thing.

In my youth I knew a lady who became Catholic after taking once a week instructions from a priest for 4 months. At the conclusion she said, “It all makes so much sense.” Now, that wasn’t liturgy, it was just catechesis. She learned liturgy on her own. But starting out, she at least knew what she believed as a Catholic, in greater detail than any that I have seen who have gone through the RCIA process.

Most Catholics learn liturgy by osmosis. Do we really need a separate, 9 to 12 month* liturgical * program to bring new Catholics into the Church? Also, the numerous “rites” used during the RCIA tend to confuse participants as to the importance of those most essential rites known as the sacraments.

Perhaps it’s time to revise the RCIA so as to put liturgy and catechesis on at least an equal level. The way it’s currently structured makes it much too difficult to sneak any significant content into the program.
 
My husband went through RCIA 2 years ago and it was an experience similar to those already mentioned. There was little instruction on apologetics but plenty on God, how He makes us feel, and all that good feely kind of stuff. In preparation for confession, the instructor actually told us (I attended class with my husband) that few people actually commit mortal sin. I was just getting back into my faith at the same time my husband was joining the church, so at the time I didn’t know what we were missing. We were given a bible but not a cathecism. I don’t think we even discussed the catecism. My mom went through RCIA about 20 years ago and had a similar experience.
 
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