Poor God

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hamba2han said:
In Islam, it is sinful to have any kind of sympathy for the Creator because to do so would be to believe that He needs anything at all from His creations.

God cannot feel hurt because this would be a sign of weakness and God is not weak.

And so, the creations should feel no pity at all for their Creator and instead should save all of their sympathy for their fellow creations… and also for their own selves on the Day of Judgment in the event that they are seen to have failed the test of life in the eyes of their Creator.
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Well in catholicism, God made us in his likeness, he gave us emotions to feel happy, sad, angry etc etc.
So it does stand to reason, that God must endure saddness when he sees us hurting each other and destroying the wonderful things he created.
I know God is all powerful, but it doesnt make him ‘weak’ in showing that he can get sad.
Im sure God wont mind me wondering how upset he is when wondering such things.
Im not a part of Islam, so therefore I dont believe God will mind me trying to understand what he thinks and feels.
And if God doesnt need anything from us, what do you call worshipping him?? I think he loves that we worship him and I think he needs that.
Need is also another emotion also that God gave us the compacity to do, and remember, he made us in HIS likeness!
Also I love God, and of course I want him to be happy, just the way he wants me and everyone to be happy
 
truthnlight said:
Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this world.
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The New American Webster’s dictionary:
religion: n 1, a system of faith in and worship of a deity. 2, a devoutness; dedication to a holy life. 3, a doctrine or custom accepted on faith.

Are you an atheist? Even atheism is a “religion”. Religion, in other words, is an outward action of an inward belief.

James 1 27: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. (NIV)

If we profess the name of Jesus Christ, but are not religious it is just words. If you are speaking about denominations, then call it by the correct word: “denominations”.
 
dolphinlove said:
And if God doesnt need anything from us, what do you call worshipping him?? I think he loves that we worship him and I think he needs that.
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Worshiping the Creator is for the benefit of the creations, not the Creator for He has no need at all for these acts of worship towards Him.

The following hadith explains how the Creator is completely free of any kind of need.

It was relayed on the authority of Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, (may Allah be pleased with him), that the Prophet, (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), said, of what he related from his Lord, magnified and exhalted be He, Who said:

** “O My servants, I have made oppression unlawful for Me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression against one another. O My servants, all of you are liable to err except for those whom I guide on the right path, therefore seek guidance from Me so that I should direct you to the right path. O My servants, all of you are hungry (needy) except for those whom I feed, therefore seek food from Me so that I may feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked (need clothes) except for those whom I provide garments, therefore seek clothing from Me so that I should clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day and I am there to pardon your sins, therefore seek forgiveness from Me so that I should grant you pardon. O My servants, you can neither do Me any harm nor can you do Me any good. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns become as pious as the most pious heart of any one amongst you, it will not add anything to My Power or Kingdom. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns become as wicked as the most wicked heart of anyone amongst you, it will not decrease anything from My Power or Kingdom. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns gather together on a sector of land and all ask of Me and if I were to give everyone of them what they asked, that will not in any way decrease what I have anymore than a needle decreases what is in the ocean when it is put into it. O My servants, these deeds of yours which I am recording for you I shall reward you for them, so he who finds good should praise Allah and he who finds other than that should not blame anyone but himself.”**

[Muslim]
 
hamba2han said:
Worshiping the Creator is for the benefit of the creations, not the Creator for He has no need at all for these acts of worship towards Him.

The following hadith explains how the Creator is completely free of any kind of need.

It was relayed on the authority of Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, (may Allah be pleased with him), that the Prophet, (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), said, of what he related from his Lord, magnified and exhalted be He, Who said:

** “O My servants, I have made oppression unlawful for Me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression against one another. O My servants, all of you are liable to err except for those whom I guide on the right path, therefore seek guidance from Me so that I should direct you to the right path. O My servants, all of you are hungry (needy) except for those whom I feed, therefore seek food from Me so that I may feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked (need clothes) except for those whom I provide garments, therefore seek clothing from Me so that I should clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day and I am there to pardon your sins, therefore seek forgiveness from Me so that I should grant you pardon. O My servants, you can neither do Me any harm nor can you do Me any good. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns become as pious as the most pious heart of any one amongst you, it will not add anything to My Power or Kingdom. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns become as wicked as the most wicked heart of anyone amongst you, it will not decrease anything from My Power or Kingdom.** O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of Jinns gather together on a sector of land and all ask of Me and if I were to give everyone of them what they asked, that will not in any way decrease what I have anymore than a needle decreases what is in the ocean when it is put into it. O My servants, these deeds of yours which I am recording for you I shall reward you for them, so he who finds good should praise Allah and he who finds other than that should not blame anyone but himself.”

[Muslim]
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Im sorry Ham, but none of that applies to me…
I am CATHOLIC and will ALWAYS remain CATHOLIC and believe in the CATHOLIC religion and what she teaches
 
Augustine had the phrase ‘Whatever you think God is, God is always greater.’ All the world’s major religions seek a transcendant dimension to Being which philosophers call the Absolute, and Christians call God (as do Jews and Muslims). While each religion has a different concept of Being which they adore and worship, as well as paths of salvation leading to Being, all religions (including Christianity) emphasize that in its own infinite reality the Absolute is a complete mystery beyond rational comprehension. On this it is very interesting to see the agreement in the world’s philosophers from Plato to Nagarjuna to Ibn-Arabi and Eckhart to Kant and even Georg Cantor and Wittgenstein that the mystery of Being or the Godhead in itself will never be understood completely by any human. And in Christianity itself, especially in Eastern Orthodoxy, it is always emphasized God is a mystery to be approached in awe and ultimately silence.

We should see then religious pluaralism as an consequence of the fallible human attempts in various ways and cultures to grasp the same mystery Christians believe in - God.
 
hamba2han said:
In Islam, it is sinful to have any kind of sympathy for the Creator because to do so would be to believe that He needs anything at all from His creations.

God cannot feel hurt because this would be a sign of weakness and God is not weak.

And so, the creations should feel no pity at all for their Creator and instead should save all of their sympathy for their fellow creations… and also for their own selves on the Day of Judgment in the event that they are seen to have failed the test of life in the eyes of their Creator.

The good news is that it is the Creator who is the Most Merciful and it is the creations who would really need His Mercy towards them on that Day.

However, the not so good news is that the creations need to earn this Mercy according to the expectations of their Creator.
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Anything that knows love, knows pain. No way around it.

Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus, even though he knew full well the fate of his friend…why? What good is an indifferent God to me?
 
Grateful4mercy said:
Anything that knows love, knows pain. No way around it.

Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus, even though he knew full well the fate of his friend…why? What good is an indifferent God to me?
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There are certain attributes of the Creator which are also to be found, although to a much lesser degree, in the creations.

Examples of this would be the feeling of love and anger for these are not weaknesses.

On the other hand, feeling hurt and pain are most certainly signs of weaknesses and therefore it is just not possible for a Creator who does not have any weakness whatsoever to have these kind of weaknesses.

In Islam, assigning human frailties and weaknesses to God is very definitely wrong because the Creator simply cannot be weak in order for Him to be the Creator and Sustainer of all of His creations.
 
hamba2han said:
In Islam, it is sinful to have any kind of sympathy for the Creator because to do so would be to believe that He needs anything at all from His creations.

God cannot feel hurt because this would be a sign of weakness and God is not weak.

And so, the creations should feel no pity at all for their Creator and instead should save all of their sympathy for their fellow creations… and also for their own selves on the Day of Judgment in the event that they are seen to have failed the test of life in the eyes of their Creator.

The good news is that it is the Creator who is the Most Merciful and it is the creations who would really need His Mercy towards them on that Day.

However, the not so good news is that the creations need to earn this Mercy according to the expectations of their Creator.
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Oh yes, “Allah” is very merciful to the Muslims who are the only creations he loves, but extremely unmerciful to any unbelievers!
 
hamba2han said:
In Islam, assigning human frailties and weaknesses to God is very definitely wrong because the Creator simply cannot be weak in order for Him to be the Creator and Sustainer of all of His creations.
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But Islam does not recognise that Jesus Christ in the same way Catholics and Protestants do.

For Islam God is the Creator, and that is correct in the context of Islam. You should feel this way.

Christians have accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit in the Trinity. Therefore we are understanding God from a different place than Islam does.

What dophin and I are pondering on is actually a relationship to our Creator, who is also our friend, protector, saviour, redeemer and Lord, Jesus Christ.

He is never not God but He is also everything else. One day you will understand His Love for you, and when you understand Him not only as a Creator and judger of Nations but as a comforter of your soul, He is sooo much more.

and ps to a earlier comment;

Thats why we are unable to comprehend, its literally beyond our relative experience to understand the Divine. We can only try and ponder like the children, we are to Him.
 
hamba2han said:
There are certain attributes of the Creator which are also to be found, although to a much lesser degree, in the creations.

Examples of this would be the feeling of love and anger for these are not weaknesses.

On the other hand, feeling hurt and pain are most certainly signs of weaknesses and therefore it is just not possible for a Creator who does not have any weakness whatsoever to have these kind of weaknesses.

In Islam, assigning human frailties and weaknesses to God is very definitely wrong because the Creator simply cannot be weak in order for Him to be the Creator and Sustainer of all of His creations.
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You keep stating that Allah is merciful, but how can a god who is so distant from his creations and cannot understand their weaknesses or even know what it means to be weak, be merciful to them? Have you ever heard of “empathy”?

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
You keep stating that Allah is merciful, but how can a god who is so distant from his creations and cannot understand their weaknesses or even know what it means to be weak, be merciful to them?
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On the contrary, Allah is not distant from His creations at all and so He knows and understands precisely every one of their weaknesses.

It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein… (Al-Qur’an, 050.016)

Apart from being the Most Merciful, He is also the Most Just… and this means that on the Day of Judgment, those of His creations who freely chose to disbelieve, ignore and disobey His commands throughout their brief stay in this world cannot expect to receive the same level of mercy that He will heap on those of His obedient servants who have themselves chosen instead to believe, be dutiful towards Him and obey His commands during their own time that they spend in this world.

The mercy of Allah is ever present and it is His creations who must learn how to tap into that mercy and learn to live our own lives in a way that will make us deserving of that mercy. It’s like this because our Creator gave us freedom of choice, so we can try to face life either with His help or without it.
 
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