Mary_Gail_36
New member
The Creighton method is also known as “fertility awareness”
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Warrior1979
Guest
It is birth control (note: not to be confused with contraception). Even the Church refers to it as that; e.g., Humane Vitae.
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Nate13
Guest
Here is Janet Smith’s talk for anyone who is interested.
catholicipod.stblogs.com/2008/03/05/contraception-why-not-janet-smith-mp3s-audio/
It comes in two parts and really breaks down the problem. The second part gets more into the real differences between NFP and Contraception.
Also, I don’t know what needs to be done, but effort needs to be made to irrefutably prove that NFP can be just as effective as contraception. It’s ridiculous how many women, do a cursory search online about it, see some random site that says 1 in 4 become pregnant using NFP, and don’t bother to really delve in and see if the numbers are right or where they came from. If someone chooses contraception over NFP because they can’t dream of abstaining that long that is a different problem, but no one should be passing up NFP because they don’t think it is as effective.
catholicipod.stblogs.com/2008/03/05/contraception-why-not-janet-smith-mp3s-audio/
It comes in two parts and really breaks down the problem. The second part gets more into the real differences between NFP and Contraception.
Also, I don’t know what needs to be done, but effort needs to be made to irrefutably prove that NFP can be just as effective as contraception. It’s ridiculous how many women, do a cursory search online about it, see some random site that says 1 in 4 become pregnant using NFP, and don’t bother to really delve in and see if the numbers are right or where they came from. If someone chooses contraception over NFP because they can’t dream of abstaining that long that is a different problem, but no one should be passing up NFP because they don’t think it is as effective.
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Charlotte1776
Guest
I think the opposite is true too, though, that women go online and see that the most commonly cited study says it is 99.4% effective and don’t read the research behind it. In that study, they started out with 1599 women, then cut it down to 900, then cut it down to just 201 because they excluded all of the women for whom NFP would not be effective - women who have given birth within the past 6 months, breastfeeding women, women who have had an abortion, women who had taken birth control pills, women under age 19, women over age 45, ones that had long or short cycles, woman with any history of fertility problems even if they were later corrected, and women who got pregnant using NFP at the start of the study. They ended up cutting 87% of the women from the total data set, which left only a very small, highly-cherrypicked group of women. And even among those women they selected because nfp would work better for them than the average population, the over all effectiveness rate was just 91%. It was only the perfect use that was so high. Rates for the average women, who is overwhelming likely to have at least one of the issues that would make nfp less effective, are bound to be lower. Perhaps much lower.
Faithful Catholics are going to use NFP regardless of effectiveness, marketing, or how happy or miserable it makes them. There’s no need to manipulate data or lie about how hard it is or how much abstinence is required (CCL admits many of its instructors do that) because if you want to get to Heaven, you have no choice. It’s not like you can decide that ABC is easier and more effective and decide to jump ship and use it. I’d much rather seen honest talk about NFP rather than discussions on how to make it appear better than it really is.
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sanctamaria17
Guest
My mom has a copy of the Harvard women’s medical guide at her house. I read the sections on birth control extensively.
There are two rates of effectiveness when it comes to birth control : when using “consistently and correctly” and “typical use.” Fertility awareness (NOT rhythm) was listed as 95% consistently and correctly and 75% typical use. The author of “Taking Charge of Your Fertility” noted that a lot of it has to do with the amount of discipline, the need to stick to a routine, and she did note that couples who practice abstinence during the fertile time (instead of using condoms, diaphragms, and other barriers) had a particularly difficult time. She said that couples committed to abstinence during times they really can’t have a child need to remember that when they’re tempted to give in to a moment of weakness.
And, when people see that the families who likely use it tend to have bigger families, I can understand why it makes them nervous. While I applaud the many who have the grace and calling to raise a large number of children, there are also a variety of reasons why couples want to either keep families small or postpone children for a time after marriage (not all of them selfish either). So, while I am committed to learning and sticking with NFP, I personally don’t feel I can judge a couple’s reason to use contraception. How do I know they haven’t prayed about it and talked with others about it?
There are two rates of effectiveness when it comes to birth control : when using “consistently and correctly” and “typical use.” Fertility awareness (NOT rhythm) was listed as 95% consistently and correctly and 75% typical use. The author of “Taking Charge of Your Fertility” noted that a lot of it has to do with the amount of discipline, the need to stick to a routine, and she did note that couples who practice abstinence during the fertile time (instead of using condoms, diaphragms, and other barriers) had a particularly difficult time. She said that couples committed to abstinence during times they really can’t have a child need to remember that when they’re tempted to give in to a moment of weakness.
And, when people see that the families who likely use it tend to have bigger families, I can understand why it makes them nervous. While I applaud the many who have the grace and calling to raise a large number of children, there are also a variety of reasons why couples want to either keep families small or postpone children for a time after marriage (not all of them selfish either). So, while I am committed to learning and sticking with NFP, I personally don’t feel I can judge a couple’s reason to use contraception. How do I know they haven’t prayed about it and talked with others about it?
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Charlotte1776
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Yes, but that still means that, statisically, YOUR personal chance of having a baby in a year is 1 in 4. Not every individual will have one, and some will use it better than others, but take any woman off the street and tell her to use NFP, and the chances of it working for her are less than any other method of birth control other than spermicides used by themselves (which isn’t how they’re meant to be used anyway). That’s just the statistical reality. And the typical use rate for the rythmn method is as high as 87% for married couples (less effective for cohabitating and dating ones). That’s better than a lot of NFP methods, actually, especially mucus-only ones.
And using it “correctly and consistently” requires weeks of abstinence, with three weeks a month being common. The one week out of four they advertise just isn’t true for most women, because more than half have cycles that fall outside what is considered normal in order to use NFP.
NFP is a difficult sacrifice done out of love obedience to God. We need to stop advertising it like it’s “Catholic birth control” because it’s not. The purpose of NFP is completely different than ABC, and plotting ways to make ABC users think it’s just as easy and effective so they will switch over to it isn’t right.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I think young ladies should learn a rudimentary fertility awareness when they first start menstruation, just to know how their bodies function.
I for one had irregular periods always. It would have been very benifical to know what was going on.
I for one had irregular periods always. It would have been very benifical to know what was going on.
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mark_a
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I agree with you. And the priest.
The anti-family mentality of our culture is the real problem.
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Charlotte1776
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Definitely. Other than Catholics, the biggest group of NFP users seems to be the natural, enviromentally-aware, health-conscious types. “Natural” is definitely the top buzz-word right now and probably will be for a quite a few more years. Emphasize those aspects of it and actually *tell *people about it (so few people have even heard of NFP!) and you’ll open up a whole new market for it in developed countries. In developing countries the draw is that it’s free, and is knowledge-based rather than device-based (i.e. you can still use it even if you have no access to someone who could give or sell you a pill).
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Calliso
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Wow that interesting about that study talk about cherry picking your data! Would be interesting to see if there is a study on NFP that actually doesn;t cherry pick and what the results are? But yeah I think in the end being more honest about NFP is key. I mean I have heard some people here complain about how hard NFP is and how it has failed them before but the thing is most of them do appear to still be using NFP despite this! So yeah enough with the sugarcoating of NFP and making it look like it will always be this great thing for your marriage and that it super duper effective all the time and more blunt truth!
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Actually Creighton has a very extensive study, I beleive it’s ongoing, because my instructer has submitted my charts to ask for clarification. (clarification of possible health issues, not on fertile or infertile days)
Actual use rate is about 96% effectiveness to avoid, with studies going on through 4 different Catholic universities, I believe.
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maryjk
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I can’t believe how many woman I talk to that regularly spend more money on the organic choice, that would ever consider allow their children to drink something with modified corn syrup, that talk to and see holistic doctors yet also pop that pill every day.
I do call them on it. I one I didn’t want to hear anything about what I ate until she stopped putting birth control pills into her body and our water supply.
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sanctareparata
Guest
The scary thing is that there is lots of junk in our water; birth control hormones aren’t the only things. There are pain meds in the water, Tamiflu (they are already talking about it creating drug resistance and flu superbugs), heart medication and anti-depressants, just to name a few.
Yuck.
All beside the point of this thread, but I thought I’d mention it!
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emmar
Guest
I agree with above posters, NFP promoters need to be up front about actual effective rates and how many days are available. Hey, I know some couple who do have 66% of the time available, but others like me only have 1%. We are just asking for some honesty from the NFP folks. I would like to see studies that deal with women who have extremely irregular cycles, show effectiveness rates there and also how much time per month they had available. This would have been much more useful information. I am making it a point to let as many people know as possible that NFP isn’t as effective as it is marketed.
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choose_to_love
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@charlotte1776: to what study are you referring?
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Charlotte1776
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This one humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2007/02/20/humrep.dem003.full.pdf
If I am interpreting the chart on page 3 correctly.
There’s been a lot of talk on facebook about NFP because it’s the awareness week and this was brought up and quickly picked apart. It was kind of surprising. This study is talked about all the time because it shows a higher effectiveness rate than any other study, as well as a higher effectiveness rate than all forms of birth control except an IUD and sterilization, but it sounds like the reason behind the high rate could be a flawed and misleading study.
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Charlotte1776
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I’m sure there are, since you can find studies that come up with numbers that are all over the place. I guess it’s important to look at the methodology and see if the results could apply to your individual situation. For instance, a study about NFP’s effectivenss for postpartum breastfeeding women would be more relevant to me right now than one that excluded them. And ones that exclude women with certain health conditions, long cycles, or who’ve never used the pill would never be relevant for me but might for other women.
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mwncheesehead
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I agree with you Monicad, that NFP is the truth so it doesn’t need bells and whistles. But as some have stated on this thread, they knew all about the Pill and condoms, but had barely heard of NFP. You are right about the birth control marketers…they have a lot more money and resources to get their word out.
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Nate13
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Mother Teresa brought NFP to the city of Calcutta and when scientists studied its effectiveness they found those using it to have a 0.4% pregnancy rate. NFP has also been used in China for great effectiveness. For you to say that its bad for us to brag about the 95+% effectiveness of NFP because “typical use” shows it to be lower is ridiculous. That is like telling the makers of the pill to stop saying it is 99% effective because obviously from the amount of people walking into the abortion clinic its much lower with “typical use”. Either way it takes discipline to use contraception or NFP correctly and if you don’t have that and are having sex you will get babies whether you want them or not. The 99.4% effectiveness number I posted was from a study where they specified all the rules they used. Also women who have irregular periods or are breast-feeding can still use NFP with the same effectiveness it just requires a little more discipline in charting.
I know the effectiveness of NFP is around 99% when used correctly because if it wasn’t, you would not have so many women who were able to use it without getting pregnant for 10+ years. I believe in another thread someone did the math to show that while using a form of birth control with 95% effectiveness and assuming an average amount of sex per month, a couple would have approx. a 33% chance of conceiving each year when the chance compounds over each act of sex. If you know of a study where they rigged the results that’s great, but there are a lot of other studies out there and no decision should be made on the basis of one study.
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Nate13
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@mwnchessehead
The truth about NFP is not obvious. Most doctors don’t know anything about it, most non-Catholic websites have misleading numbers that don’t provide the facts, and I know of Catholic women who have done a quick search and decided against it. The fact is women who are on the fence don’t want to trust Catholic websites because they assume they will have a bias. The only way to get true information on NFP is to go to the sources of the studies that were done, but most don’t take the time or know to do it. Why these women trust the box that the pill comes in and planned parenthood about the pill, but don’t trust Catholic/NFP websites about NFP is beyond my comprehension.
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