Poor women a target!

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Lexee15

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I have been noticing a very disturbing trend among women that I speak to. Most of these women are poor and hispanic (mexican), they are having their tubes tied after their second or third child. All of these women are practicing catholics, I don’t understand why they are having this procedure done. They also continue to recieve communion like it’s nothing. I’ve asked them if they know that it’s a sin to have your tubes tied unless it’s for some medical reason. I also have heard that they are given the choice while they are seeing their doctors or when they are about ready to give birth.

Why do these women think it’s okay to do this, why isn’t the Church making it loud and clear that it’s a sin to make yourself sterile? I personally think that society has an agenda to make sure that poor, colored people procreate as little as possible which is why they offer this service so easily. But I also believe that it’s the church’s job to make sure they understand that it’s sinful and that it’s not what God has intended for them. It angers me that these things are not addressed in church, if someone is ignorant about the teachings of the church then it’s up to those who are knowledgable to inform them. And it should be addressed during Sunday Mass…either after the homily or right after Mass is over before the priest gives the blessing, instead of or along with the bulletin announcements. Does anyone else agree with me on this?
 
I was talking with a group of priests after a Humanae Vitae Conference a few years ago and asked them why priests don’t speak out and condemn contraception, IVF, sterilizations and abortion more strongly.

The answer I got from one was that priests, like most people want to be popular with their parishioners, so they try not to deliberately upset people by speaking too strongly when they suspect many of the parishioners would fall into the above categories.

I guess it is up to us laity to lead the way and for us to encourage our priests to rise above the human need for approval from the world rather than from God.
 
I just felt compelled to point out that the demographics you mention are very surprising to me. Hispanics in my area are the least likely to undergo sterilization (IUDs are another story though), and very few go to Communion regularly.

This is probably a case of misinformation and pressure from doctors than anything else. I am very fortunate to attend a church that promotes pro-life events and speaks out against contraception.

Prayer and information are our two greatest tools.
 
the pressure from HMO doctors and those who accept Medicaid is terrific on women to accept sterilization after the third baby, the younger the mother, the more intense the pressure. I had to fight my own HMO years ago on this issue. OB (from India) showed me written HMO policy advising sterilization after the third pregancy of a mother under 25. I had 3 priests tell me, because of underlying medical problems, that sterilization would be acceptable, fortunately I went to a great Catholic school and knew better. I have heard this addressed from the pulpit only a handful of times in the last 30 years.
 
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puzzleannie:
the pressure from HMO doctors and those who accept Medicaid is terrific on women to accept sterilization after the third baby, the younger the mother, the more intense the pressure. I had to fight my own HMO years ago on this issue. OB (from India) showed me written HMO policy advising sterilization after the third pregancy of a mother under 25. I had 3 priests tell me, because of underlying medical problems, that sterilization would be acceptable, fortunately I went to a great Catholic school and knew better. I have heard this addressed from the pulpit only a handful of times in the last 30 years.
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This is really scary. It will get to the point where HMO’s will require these woman to get sterilized to continue their coverage. :nope:
 
I think it is an ongoing problem - the poor women are always targetted. My grandmother, who was poor and Italian, was targetted in the 1920’s. When the doctor saw she had had three children, he tried to tie her tubes. God had other plans…the tubes ‘untied’. She had my mother. When she became pregnant with my mother the doctor was flabergasted, and made the mistake of saying, “But I thought I made it impossible for you to get pregnant!”. Unfortunately for him, he thought my grandmother would not be able to understand him.

I cannot write what she told him…lucky for him, she was only five feet tall …
 
This is not a poor women issue. The difference is that affluent women have a choice and can handle things more discreetly.

Priests are not boot camp training sergeants with total command of their flocks. They have to persuade lovingly and carefully or those communicants sitting in the pews will just go somewhere else. People come to church for solace, not a dressing down.

Everybody knows that Catholic women are contracepting at about the same level as the rest of society. If you don’t agree, look around the next few times you are at Mass. See how many families you observe with more than two or three children. It is difficult to launch a vigorous attack on a practice followed by the majority of the folks sitting in front of you.
 
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OriginalJS:
This is not a poor women issue. The difference is that affluent women have a choice and can handle things more discreetly.

Priests are not boot camp training sergeants with total command of their flocks. They have to persuade lovingly and carefully or those communicants sitting in the pews will just go somewhere else. People come to church for solace, not a dressing down.

Everybody knows that Catholic women are contracepting at about the same level as the rest of society. If you don’t agree, look around the next few times you are at Mass. See how many families you observe with more than two or three children. It is difficult to launch a vigorous attack on a practice followed by the majority of the folks sitting in front of you.
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I’m not sure ‘everyone knows’ this…statistics vary. There has been quite a resurgence of orthodoxy in the past ten years and among Catholic women in particular the numbers are starting to shift in regards to how they are choosing to plan their families - with artificial birth control or with NFP. Let’s pray that those numbers continue to shift in the correct direction!
 
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OriginalJS:
This is not a poor women issue. The difference is that affluent women have a choice and can handle things more discreetly.

Priests are not boot camp training sergeants with total command of their flocks. They have to persuade lovingly and carefully or those communicants sitting in the pews will just go somewhere else. People come to church for solace, not a dressing down.

Everybody knows that Catholic women are contracepting at about the same level as the rest of society. If you don’t agree, look around the next few times you are at Mass. See how many families you observe with more than two or three children. It is difficult to launch a vigorous attack on a practice followed by the majority of the folks sitting in front of you.
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:clapping: And while you’re at it, check out the low birth rate in Italy. Now that’s one to figure. Surely Italian Catholics living in Italy don’t use artificial birth control… you think???
 
While women of all ranks of society are getting sterilized and using contraception, it does seem as though the wealthy have an agenda to eliminate poverty by eliminating the poor. Margaret Sanger thought poor people were born that way because they deserved it. She hoped that birth control pills, while allowing her to continue with her promiscuity, would also get rid of poor people and black people, whom she couldn’t stand. Also, most abortion clinics are located in minority neighborhoods. It is an ugly world we live in.
 
My daughter is 27 and just gave birth to baby # 3, (6 weeks ago). The pressure to have her tubes tied was unreal. She was more or less treated as if she is stupid for not choosing an “acceptable” form of birth control or to tie her tubes. One of Doctors(you have to see each one in the last weeks,this was not her Doctor, nor did he deliver my Grandson) actually said "You’ll be back here again in less then a year if you practice “Catholic Roullette” (I guess that’s their term for NFP, I have heard this degrading term before too.) Although by no means rich, they have health insurance and can provide for their children and anymore they may have, so don’t think it’s just poor women but all woman. They seem to have some kind of adgenda for promoting smaller families. PS. my daughter is half Hispanic, but they don’t live in a large city, and although Maiden name is, her married name is not. I don’t really feel race was an issue here.
 
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puzzleannie:
I had 3 priests tell me, because of underlying medical problems, that sterilization would be acceptable,…
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Is this the current Catholic teaching? That it is OK to be sterilised under certain circumstances? If not, why are so many Catholic priests teaching this now?
 
poor women are a target!! I’m sorry to say that I have been in great financial troubles. I had a baby 5 months ago, who is the most precious wonderful thing!!! During my post partum check-up birth control was literally pushed at me. My hospital keeps income records on file and upon learning of my recent financial difficulties they feared that I would get pregnant again in the near future. Since recent financial troubles If I were to have another baby now the state would pick up the bill for the medical attention of me and the unborn. so yes, poor women are a target. We are pressured into birth control and sterilization.
 
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kaymart:
"You’ll be back here again in less then a year if you practice “Catholic Roullette”
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Goodness, couldn’t you send a letter and other such things to the hospital complaining about the lack of sensativity & respect of people’s faith. If he caught me at the right time saying that to my wife, he very well could have a fist in his face, although I’d hope a cooler head would prevail.
 
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jman507:
Goodness, couldn’t you send a letter and other such things to the hospital complaining about the lack of sensativity & respect of people’s faith. If he caught me at the right time saying that to my wife, he very well could have a fist in his face, although I’d hope a cooler head would prevail.
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As her mother, who lost several babies myself, through miscarriage and unable to have anymore after # 3, (had emergency hysteroctomy following last birth-I nearly died) I wanted to punch him in the mouth;), about making a formal complaint this was only less then two months ago, so I will talk to her about it and I think that would be a very good idea.
 
The way society is going, especially in the health care industry, I’m only slightly surprised that HMO’s encourage poor women to be sterilized. I think this trend will spread, especially with cuts in social programs (including medical) that many poor women depend on. I live in Southern California and we have so many poor Latino women who are treated so badly. I heard about one who had an abortion because she was (1) an illegal, (2) had another child at home in Mexico, (3) worked for a couple who would fire her if she missed any work, (4) had no insurance or money or support system. She was heartbroken about it. She didn’t feel she could even have the baby and give it up for adoption because she couldn’t miss any work and she might have had to for health reasons at some point in her pregnancy.

The government wants to get rid of people who depend on social programs. The best way to do that is to stop them from reproducing.
 
The circle of poverty is because to many social programs award people for the actions. Women get pregnant, get money, Unemployment, sit home till runs out, disability, ok some really need it but be honest how many “really need it” don’t tell me a 25 year old construction worker hurt on the job can not be re-trained. I see lots of people born with a disability, work hard for a living, yet some guy who gets a boo-boo sits home all day.
 
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kaymart:
As her mother, who lost several babies myself, through miscarriage and unable to have anymore after # 3, (had emergency hysteroctomy following last birth-I nearly died) I wanted to punch him in the mouth;), about making a formal complaint this was only less then two months ago, so I will talk to her about it and I think that would be a very good idea.
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Might want to find some CORRECT information on NFP to send along too - they might not read it - but maybe they would, and even if they didn’t agree with it, perhaps they change their opinion that its so useless and acknowledge that it isn’t as bad as they think it is…
 
Thomas 1985:
The circle of poverty is because to many social programs award people for the actions. Women get pregnant, get money, Unemployment, sit home till runs out, disability, ok some really need it but be honest how many “really need it” don’t tell me a 25 year old construction worker hurt on the job can not be re-trained. I see lots of people born with a disability, work hard for a living, yet some guy who gets a boo-boo sits home all day.
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True, some people take advantage - and there will always be people like that. But the answer is not to do away with the program and thus punish those who are truly in need for the sins of others. We need more people to investigate claims and get rid of the freeloaders.
 
OriginalJS,

I think your inference that families sitting in the pews with three or less children is an irresponsible generalization. My wife and I have two children (living) and three others that miscarried. We practice NFP and always hoped for more.

We also believe that our priests should be leaders and preach the full Gospel from the sanctuary – not just the feel-good stuff. To persuade someone lovingly often means calling that someone to task or, like my grandmother used to say, “have a come to Jesus talk.” I’m not willing to lower my expectation of our priests and will continue to push him for stronger leadership.
 
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