Pope allegedly said Christmas calendar is wrong

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But these are not matters of faith. The Church has never taught that the details in the bible are in the correct order, are correct to the last detail, that every name is correct or that every word is even spelled correctly. We have always taught that the Gospels and the letters were compiled by the early Church, because they truly represent the faith of the Church. The key word is faith. The faith of the early Church was about the content of revelation, not the background details. They were aware that many of the writings of the Evangelists were handed down by word of mouth, because there were no eye witnesses to some of these events. The Evangelists were inspired by the Holy Spirit as they tried to make sense of the oral tradition.

For example, we have always heard the Beatitudes referred to as the Sermon on the Mount. However, in one of the Gospels they are called the Sermon on the Plain. There are two genealogies in the Gospels. It was not until the 20th century that we figured out that one is Joseph’s and the other is Mary’s. Genesis has two stories of creation. The first story has a period of six days and the second story has one day. There are three resurrection narratives. What is consistent about them is the empty tomb. The number of angels, who saw Jesus first is not the same in the synoptic Gospels and John.

The Gospel of John has two introductions that we know were not written by the same person. The Prologue is filled with Greek terminology and Greek logic. It’s also written in perfect Greek and coincides with the Creation Narrative. The rest of the Gospel of John does not target the Greek Christians at all. It targets a Jewish Christian audience. John leaves out most of the miracles and parables that appear in the other Gospels. The Gospel of Mark was written by a man named John, not Mark. One theory says that his name may have been John Marc.

Paul goes to great lengths to write about the weakness in fulfilling the Law and the need for faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. James says that faith must be proven by works. For Protestants, these are conflicting messages.

Today, we know that the Book of Revelation is not about the end of the world. It’s a book of prophecies and messages from God. John wrote it it as he received these revelations, hence the Greek term Apocalypse, which does not mean “End Times”. Apocalypse means revelation.

Now, as to the animals in the stable at Jesus’ birth, if you have ever been in contact with Franciscans or had been taught by Franciscans, you would have been told that St. Francis created this image sometime between 1219 and 1221 in the town of Greccio. He knew that caves were used as stables. Not being from the Middle East, he had no idea that the domesticated animals of Europe and of the Middle East were not the same. Nor did he have any idea if there were animals at all in the cave. He simply assumed there were. When he created the first creche, he put them in there and they have become part of the creche and no one remembers (except Franciscans) that this was a teaching tool that Francis used 1200 years after the birth of Christ.

We have long known that Christ was not born in the year zero. I don’t see how that comes as a surprise. The world has had many calendars and none of them are accurate. Even our own calendar today has to be adjusted every so many years. We add here and cut there. A few years ago, the new year began at 11:59 PM, not at 12:00 AM. We were off by a minute. This year, we’re off by a second. Today, we have the technology to compensate. One hundred fifty years ago, such technology did not exist. As minutes went by, they turned into hours, hours turned into days and days turned into months. Over a period of 2,000 years you end up being off by several years.

I’m 62 years old. I remember the friars teaching us that Jesus was not born in the year zero back in primary school during the 1950s and that there were no such animals, but Francis has used local animals from the town of Greccio.

If one reads the Holy Father’s book and sees these passages in context, one’s memory is shaken and one remembers hearing bits and pieces of these details through our school years in different classes: history, literature, theology and even art. The key is to read the entire book, not take a paragraph out of the text. It’s also good to look at his sources. They’re very credible sources. The Holy Father did his homework.

He’s wanted to complete the series for years. He had even cut his day in his office down to about four hours to work on this series for fear that he would not finish it, given his advanced age. But by jove, he pulled it off. In this trilogy, the Holy Father shows us that as time moves forward, our knowledge of Christology does not change, it increases.

Let’s see what’s his next academic project. He never ceases to amaze me. He’s brilliant. I was privileged to have him as a professor when I was a student in Europe shortly after Vatican II, during the 70s. I had him for Theology of History. Most of his concepts in this trilogy are based on Theology of History. Theology of History comes to us from the Augustinians and Franciscans. They gathered the works of Augustine and Bonaventure and put the pieces together and realized that they two of them had been working on the same concept, the development of Christian doctrine through history.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :christmastree1:
Very well said, Brother. 🙂
 
It has been known for a long time that we are off 4-6 (roughly) years. That is a historical fact.

True, he does say that the Bible uses the verb “to say” not “to sing.” However, as he points out not more than a page later: “Christianity has always understood the speech of angels is actually song.” So the Bible uses “to say” for the speech of the angels, yes; but the speech of the angels are actually perpetual songs.

There is no Bible quote that says there are animals present. That as well is a fact. However, as the Pope says, “no representation of the crib is complete” without animals.

It really isn’t that big of a deal, except the media is making amazingly sensational claims that he has cancelled Christmas or has debunked Christmas! And I thought I actually trusted some of the media. :rolleyes:

Read this:
foxnews.com/world/2012/11/30/bah-humbug-social-media-reports-pope-has-not-canceled-christmas/
Haha! NEVER trust the media without checking their sources…or at the very least, get to look for particular media that you feel you CAN trust better. Even then, check!! Look how the media has distorted the facts of global warming…when you know something about a subject and you see it reported wrongly, you realise how misleading some parts of the media can so often be! Often deliberately, for sensation or an agenda or both.
I don’t believe that the nativity story was meant to be taken so literally - generations have added details which they can’t have really known…we love a story that we can relate to - hence the parables. If you look too literally, if you want proof of tiny details you will get into trouble.
 
I feel blessed to be living in these times (in spite of the train wreck that is the general culture).
I think every generation as it got older, even before trains were invented, thought their general culture was a ‘train wreck’ haha!
 
But these are not matters of faith.
Yes, and you and I and a lot of other folks know that. I am only suggesting we have some charity toward people for whom that is faith. It isn’t a matter of correcting their perceptions because they perceive as they are able. You and I and others, through no efforts of our own, are able to perceive differently.

There is no difference in the minds of many between the Church and God. Faith in one is exactly the same as faith in the other. And while we maybe able to justify that belief through a certain definition of the word “Church,” the Church is simply the Pope and the Bishop and the Parish and the Rosary, not necessarily in that order. And everything that has ever issued from the Church, in the perception of people, becomes a Holy Truth. For them, your post while of course correct is also TL;DR.

And besides, how are there not flights angels singing at the birth of the Son of God?
 
Yes, and you and I and a lot of other folks know that. I am only suggesting we have some charity toward people for whom that is faith. It isn’t a matter of correcting their perceptions because they perceive as they are able. You and I and others, through no efforts of our own, are able to perceive differently.

There is no difference in the minds of many between the Church and God. Faith in one is exactly the same as faith in the other. And while we maybe able to justify that belief through a certain definition of the word “Church,” the Church is simply the Pope and the Bishop and the Parish and the Rosary, not necessarily in that order. And everything that has ever issued from the Church, in the perception of people, becomes a Holy Truth. For them, your post while of course correct is also TL;DR.

And besides, how are there not flights angels singing at the birth of the Son of God?
Rescue me. What is TL;DR?

Did you read the rest of the chapter when the Holy Father explains about the angels and how angels communicate?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :christmastree1:
 
The actual date of Christ’s birth is not known and anyway does not matter. Knowing or not knowing has no impact on our faith or salvation.
The timeframe of the census is known. Our whole calendar is based upon that monk’s error - he didn’t correlate properly the reigns of the emperors with the Jewish calendar - a correlation that makes much more clear the nature of his error.
 
Rescue me. What is TL;DR?

Did you read the rest of the chapter when the Holy Father explains about the angels and how angels communicate?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :christmastree1:
Brother, TL;DR is short for “Too Long; Didn’t Read.”
 
Rescue me. What is TL;DR?:
I’m sorry. It’s internet forumspeak for “too long; didn’t read.” It isn’t meant to be rude at all.

No, I didn’t read the rest because I really didn’t read much of it at all as I don’t have a problem with whether there were animals or not, stable or cave, time of year, well, any of the details of traditional Christmas beliefs. God came among us as one of us as we come, powerless and innocent. Seems like enough to be going on with.
 
I’m sorry. It’s internet forumspeak for “too long; didn’t read.” It isn’t meant to be rude at all.

No, I didn’t read the rest because I really didn’t read much of it at all as I don’t have a problem with whether there were animals or not, stable or cave, time of year, well, any of the details of traditional Christmas beliefs. God came among us as one of us as we come, powerless and innocent. Seems like enough to be going on with.
You young people need to remember that we old folks don’t speak New English. :yup:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :christmastree1:
 
agree no one is forbiden, what is troubling is the Pope blames these errors on a delusional Monk back in 6th century., it begs the question what else is errant?
A lot of stuff written by Catholics is errant. Even the Pope’s book may have errors, as he has not declared their contents ex cathedra. Only Scripture is inerrant and only certain papal statements are infallible.
 
has anyone claimed “forbidden”?

the point is that errors were made based on a blunder by a 6th century Monk. What else is errant for the past 1400 years?

It’s like the new missal that basically corrected the old missal.
The modern dating system is hardly considered to be any kind of Church teaching, so what is the big deal for the faith if it’s wrong?

Also, the Roman Missal didn’t “correct” the liturgy that came before it. The translation is more correct, but changes in liturgy are not necessarily changes in teaching.

You should only be worried if an official teaching of the Church changes. And even then, the subject would need to be studied to make sure an actual change took place, rather than a further development or explanation.
 
HOLY CATS! 😃 I can’t believe some folks SEEM to be taking this CNN comment in grave seriousness! For one thing, please don’t make the mistake of thinking that CNN automatically KNOWS what they’re talking about – no matter how many researchers they have on staff. They make plenty of mistakes, and their intentional BIAS is well-understood. If you know someone who is “learning their theology” from CNN – or from CBS, NBC, ABC or anyone else, please direct them to the nearest RCIA class so they can learn more truth than fiction.
I’m an old person, and I remember learning in my parochial grade school that the setting of Christmas in December was a ‘device’ by the Church during the past when they got around to celebrating Christmas at all, & was to ‘counteract’ some of the pagan winter festivals from early times. It was a kind of arbitrary date; sort of like, the Queen of England’s birthday isn’t really in June, even though that’s when it’s celebrated publicly. We really DON’T know when it was, although, if we use the gospel stories as a basis for surmise, Jesus was likely born during the early spring, during the lambing, which is when the shepherds would have been keeping an overnight watch of their sheep. That was a fine explanation for us and it was satisfactory. We knew Jesus was born, came to save us from our sins, and open heaven again. What else did we need?
I don’t think ANY of my ‘little friends’ would have been as well-assured as “Virginia”, who sent a letter to the NYTimes and stated that “if it’s in the Times, you can believe it’s true” or some such nonsense.
I really don’t know that Jesus is concerned with whether or not we actually KNOW the date of His Birth, but I think He IS concerned that we HONOR Him and that we let Him into our hearts and lives. There’s also that important message in scripture about ‘becoming as one of these little ones’ that we shouldn’t lose sight of…
Not scolding, but hoping to remind everybody of what’s really important to remember.
Merry Christmas to everybody. May Jesus bring you peace and deepest joy!
 
I honestly think you are making a bigger deal out of something relatively small. The fact that Christ was born 1 AD or 3 BC does not matter to our salvation - that fact that he was born at all is what is relevant!

We know he was born during the reign of Augustus Caesar (27 BC - 14 AD), and during the reign of King Herod (c. 37 - 4 BC). Some have suggested, however, that Herod died in 1 BC.
We use the same words “tradition” but mean different things. The things WE do in church ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN THE BIBLE. THE BIBLE, HOWEVER, IS ACCURATE: December 25 is mentioned as the first day of the beginning of something new, the FIRST DAY ‘the new temple’ is built ‘after the captivity’–the Israelites were ousted by GOD after ‘misbehaving,’ AS THE PREVIOUS INHABITANTS HAD, AND ACCORDING TO HIS PROMISE, and ‘the remnant’ that RETURNED rebuilt, AND GOD DECREED to the two in charge of things, that the name of one, JOSHUA=JESUS, would be THE NAME of the one to come; He ALSO declared that FROM DECEMBER 25 ONWARD WOULD BRING BLESSING, and we know that Christ Jesus called HIS BODY the temple, “the temple of His body”–the apostle says in the Gospel of John 2:21… The date is unRecognizable to us however because Jewish calendar-terms REFER TO OUR DECEMBER AS THEIR NINTH MONTH; THEIR YEAR–begins in APRIL WITH THE FEAST OF PASSOVER AS DECREED BY GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT… They call December THE NINTH MONTH, and the “CORNERSTONE” (JESUS) IS LAID ON THE 24TH SO THAT THE 25TH IS THE FIRST COMPLETE DAY OF “HIS TEMPLE” BEING “MATERIALIZED” beginning AT DUSK ON WHAT WE WOULD CALL THE 24TH UNTIL THE DUSK OF THE 25TH: HAGGAI 2, VERSES10In the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, in the second year of Darius, the Word of Yahweh came by Haggai the prophet, saying, 11"Thus says Yahweh of Armies: Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying, 12’If someone carries holy meat in the fold of his garment, and with his fold touches bread, stew, wine, oil, or any food, will it become holy?’" The priests answered, “No.” 13Then Haggai said, “If one who is unclean by reason of a dead body touch any of these, will it be unclean?” The priests answered, “It will be unclean.” 14Then Haggai answered, “‘So is this people, and so is this nation before me,’ says Yahweh; ‘and so is every work of their hands. That which they offer there is unclean. 15Now, please consider from this day and backward, before a stone was laid on a stone in the temple of Yahweh. 16Through all that time, when one came to a heap of twenty measures, there were only ten. When one came to the wine vat to draw out fifty, there were only twenty. 17I struck you with blight, mildew, and hail in all the work of your hands; yet you didn’t turn to me,’ says Yahweh. 18’Consider, please, from this day and backward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, since the day that the foundation of Yahweh’s temple was laid, consider it. 19Is the seed yet in the barn? Yes, the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree haven’t brought forth. From this day will I bless you.’”[THIS IS SYMBOLIC OF THE MANIFESTATION OF THE TEMPLE OF JESUS’ BODY TO COME AND BLESSING…FOLLOWING AFTERWARD. NOW FOLLOW]

THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO ARE WORKING ON IT–ZERUBBABEL AND JOSHUA–
Haggai 2:1In the seventh month, in the twenty-first day of the month, the Word of Yahweh came by Haggai the prophet, saying, 2"Speak now to Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and to the remnant of the people, saying, 3’Who is left among you who saw this house in its former glory? How do you see it now? Isn’t it in your eyes as nothing? 4Yet now be strong, Zerubbabel,’ says Yahweh. ‘Be strong, Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land,’ says Yahweh, ‘and work, for I am with you,’ says Yahweh of Armies. 5This is the word that I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt, and my Spirit lived among you. ‘Don’t be afraid.’ 6For this is what Yahweh of Armies says: ‘Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, the earth, the sea, and the dry land; 7and I will shake all nations. The precious things of all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory, says Yahweh of Armies. 8The silver is mine, and the gold is mine,’ says Yahweh of Armies. 9’The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,’ says Yahweh of Armies; ‘and in this place will I give peace,’ says Yahweh of Armies."

AND THIS IS THE MESSAGE FROM ZECHARIAH AT THE SAME TIME IN CHAPTER 4–IDENTIFYING WHO IS WORKING ON IT-- AND VERSES:6Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, “This is the word of Yahweh to Zerubbabel, saying, ‘Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says Yahweh of Armies. 7Who are you, great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you are a plain; and he will bring out the capstone with shouts of ‘Grace, grace, to it!’”
8Moreover the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 9"The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house. His hands shall also finish it; and you will know that Yahweh of Armies has sent me to you. 10Indeed, who despises the day of small things? For these seven shall rejoice, and shall see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. These are the eyes of Yahweh, which run back and forth through the whole earth." [GRACE WILL COME–YOU SEE]

AND–SO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS CORRECT-- [CONTINUED]
 
[CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS PORTION OF POST]

AND–SO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS CORRECT–AND WE SEE THAT THIS IS INDEED SPEAKING OF “CHRIST JESUS” “(YAHSHUA)” [YAH–WHO IS YAHWEH, WHICH IS LEARNED IN CATECHISM EARLY ON IN “CATHOLIC CHURCH”–IS SALVATION] just a little bit further on IN ZECHARIAH 6:11Yes, take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them on the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest; 12and speak to him, saying, 'Thus says Yahweh of Armies, "Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: and he shall grow up out of his place; and he shall build the temple of Yahweh; 13even he shall build the temple of Yahweh; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; and he shall be a priest on his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. [THE BIBLE IS SAYING RIGHT THERE THAT THE NAME OF THE KING TO COME IS ‘JOSHUA’-WHICH-IS-JESUS-WHICH-IS-YAHSHUA]…

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH…WAS CORRECT. Humanism has invaded. We were to check our elder/PRESBYTERS/PRIESTS by bringing charges against THEM BECAUSE WE COULD CHECK THEM FOR WHAT IS TRUE MAKES AN ELDER/PRESBYTER/PRIEST TRUE and NOT vice-versa: we are NOT to accept WITHOUT QUESTION THE WORD OF ANY PRIEST/POPE. THE APOSTLES TOLD US WHAT TO DO AND THAT INFORMATION WAS RELAYED THROUGH THE BIBLE…BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

THE POPE IS INFALLIBLE: HERE IS HOW. The pope is ONLY infallible NOT in faith and MORALS–BECAUSE WE MUST BE CHECKING HIM–but ONLY in the office of making prophetic utterances AS THE HIGH PRIEST DID…IN THE TEMPLE. EVEN…WHEN IT WAS AN EVIL HIGH PRIEST: the high priest–man in charge of THE TEMPLE–who was wicked and ARGUED JESUS BE PUT TO DEATH WAS SAID TO SPEAK PROPHETICALLY, it is EXPEDIENT “that one man die for the people” BY THE APOSTLES… SO THE FUNCTION…OF THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH IS BY NATURE PROPHETIC…BUT NOT AS AN INFALLIBLE TEACHER OF FAITH AND MORALS: ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT…WHICH IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. But not EVERY word of the high priest WAS RIGHT. And JESUS called them wicked–John 18:14Now it was Caiaphas who advised the Jews that it was expedient that one man should perish for the people… John11:49But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50nor do you consider that it is advantageous for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” 51Now he didn’t say this of himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52and not for the nation only, but that he might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53So from that day forward they took counsel that they might put him to death. John 11:47The chief priests therefore and the Pharisees gathered a council, and said, “What are we doing? For this man does many signs. 48If we leave him alone like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.” 49But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50nor do you consider that it is advantageous for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.”

THE TRUTH IS TRUE–JESUS TOLD US TO JUDGE A TREE BY ITS FRUIT. US. JESUS TOLD US WOLVES WOULD BE IN THE FLOCK…AMONG US. FOLLOW JESUS–THAT WILL MAKE YOU THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. DO NOT FOLLOW A MAN. WE ARE TO KEEP EACH OTHER ON TRACK. WHY? BECAUSE WE CAN TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT. NOT A MAN–HE SHOULD BE TRUSTING THE HOLY SPIRIT. WHEN WE HEAR A MAN WE ARE TO TURN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT FOR CONFIRMATION THAT HIS WORD IS TRUE…AND TO SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES WHICH THE TRUE CHURCH…LEFT TO US: TO CHECK THE ELDERS. THE POPE IS AN ELDER–THE POPE IS A PRIEST WHO IS A BISHOP AND THE PREMIER BISHOP…OF THE LAND. LISTEN TO THE APOSTLES AND JESUS. [CONTINUE TO REST OF POST]
 
[CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS PORTION OF POST=THIRD OF THREE: ARE THEY ALL HERE??] WHEN WE HEAR A MAN WE ARE TO TURN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT FOR CONFIRMATION THAT HIS WORD IS TRUE…AND TO SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES WHICH THE TRUE CHURCH…LEFT TO US: TO CHECK THE ELDERS. THE POPE IS AN ELDER–THE POPE IS A PRIEST WHO IS A BISHOP AND THE PREMIER BISHOP…OF THE LAND. LISTEN TO THE APOSTLES AND JESUS.

WATCH THIS POPE CAREFULLY. I HAD A DREAM: I WAS IN A BEAUTIFUL CATHOLIC-TYPE CHURCH…ALL YOU WANT IN BEAUTY AND FRAGRANCE AND PEACE. BUT SOMETHING WAS WRONG…THE MOSAICS IN THE CHURCH…WERE DEPICTING A WOMAN ENCOURAGING CARNAL RELATIONSHIPS UNMARRIED…WITH MANY MEN. I WAS SO HYPNOTIZED BY THE BEAUTIFUL MUSIC AND SERVICE THAT I COULD BARELY DISCERN THAT THE WORDS ENCOURAGING…SIN BENEATH THE IMAGE WERE…NOT–THE WORDS OF THE ORIGINAL CHURCH. THE LORD TOLD US THERE WOULD COME DELUSION AT THE END OF THE AGE AND THAT MANY WOULD BE DECEIVED–EVEN THE ELECT WHO ARE US IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE!!! ALLAH…IS NOT GOD. BEWARE OF MIXING–THE TWO. ALLAH SAYS THERE IS NO SON. THE BIBLE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: 1 JOHN 2, VERSES23Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also. John 3, VERSES35 The Father loveth the Son: and he hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

HERE FURTHER IS WHAT JOHN HAS TO SAY:25This is the promise which he promised us, the eternal life.

26These things I have written to you concerning those who would lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from him remains in you, and you don’t need for anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, you will remain in him.

I WARN THAT PERILOUS TIMES ARE COMING…THAT JESUS SAID WOULD COME. DECEPTION…IS GUARANTEED TO COME–AND REVELATION…DESCRIBES IT. HOLD FAST TO YOUR…CATHOLIC FAITH. LET–NO ONE STEAL IT FROM YOU. THE CATHOLIC FAITH IS JESUS. STICK WITH HIM–AND AVOID RELIGION. REAL BELIEVERS…ARE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH–NOT THE WOLVES IN IT. YOU ARE NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE GROUP BUT WITH JESUS. Do not let your FAITH…IN JESUS…fail. BECAUSE MEN FAIL. ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT–AS JESUS SAID TO.

LAST WORD [JESUS SPEAKING]: LUKE 11, VERSES9"I tell you, keep asking, and it will be given you. Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he won’t give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12Or if he asks for an egg, he won’t give him a scorpion, will he? 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?" <3+THE YEHOVAH PER HIM–HE WILL TELL THE TRUTH AND SO SAYS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY WHO IS THE HOLY SPIRIT: CLING TO HIM AND DO NOT DENY THE WORD AS THE WORD ITSELF TELLS US AND DESCRIBES THOSE PEOPLE WHO ESCAPE THE GREAT TRIAL COMING UPON THE EARTH AS DOING; BIBLES USED ARE THE WEB BIBLE/DOUAY-RHEIMS AND I DEFEND THE USE OF THE BIBLE ON THE WEB USING THE TRUE NAME OF GOD…AS TAUGHT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!! LOVE. FAREWELL. WENDY-AND-LOVE-TO-YOU-WHO-LOVE-AND-SEARCH-FOR-TRUTH-AND-I-INVITE-YOU-TO-CORRECT-ME-ON-FACEBOOK AS MRS. BRUCE DISCHLER…
 
According to the Gospel of Luke, the original date of the Immaculate Conception would have been sometime between late August or September by the Gregorian Calender, which would put Christ’s actual birth sometimein June! In addition, Modern historical astronomers have determined that the Star of Bethleham was actually a confluence of astronomical bodies that actually occured ca. 3 B.C. Which puts Christ’s death in the year 30 A.D.
This gets a lot of people confused, but the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of MARY! …in preparation for her to be the Mother of God.😉 This is dogma of the Church.
 
This gets a lot of people confused, but the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of MARY! …in preparation for her to be the Mother of God.😉 This is dogma of the Church.
Ummm… see post 44. You are right, though, some people do confuse the terms.
 
A lot of stuff written by Catholics is errant. Even the Pope’s book may have errors, as he has not declared their contents ex cathedra. Only Scripture is inerrant and only certain papal statements are infallible.
Which documents are infallible? There have been only two documents issued by the popes that are Ex Cathedra, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

There are many documents issued by popes that make references to infallible dogma or make comments on infallible dogma. But the documents themselves are not infallible. The last such document, which Traditionalists will never mention, because to some, mentioning Bl. John Paul II is like swallowing cod liver oil, is Evangelium Vitae. The only infallible part of it is the central paragraph where it decrees that abortion is always evil and can never be justified. But this is not an Ex Cathedra statement. He’s pulling from Tradition. The statement is infallible and embedded in an encyclical.

There is a tendency to believe that all encyclicals are infallible. The pope need not decree something to be infallible for it to be error free as long as he’s speaking about revealed dogma or divine moral law.

As to the Holy Father’s book, again the radical traditionalists are going out of their way to argue that the book is not infallible; therefore, the pope could be wrong. However, I would love to know how many of these people making this statement a) have read the book and b) have a strong enough background in Christology to challenge the pope. Just because something has been traditionally held does not make it a doctrinal fact. Geocentrism was traditionally held for a long time.

Before we question and challenge, read the book and compare what he says to some good current Christologists. I did and found no errors.

I have found that I can observe tradition without questioning the veracity, inerrancy or honesty of everything that crosses my path.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :christmastree1:
 
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