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seaton2005
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I really don’t think that is what Christ would instruct us to do.
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Silver_Thread
Guest
AMEN!!!Bill1940 is correct, i.e., no Pope can alter or rewrite or make Sacred Scripture null and void, as in the case of this particular issue, and there is clearly a significant set of Scriptural references, as well as citations from Sacred Tradition and Saints, all of which speak to the contrary of recent comments. When Pope Francis makes such noted statements, he is merely giving his personal opinion, not to be confused with establishing some universal new truth in an infallible declaration. It’s often been the case with this Successor of Peter that his words have given rise to much confusion, especially about this and other long-held traditional issues making the news. I recently read a good article that covers several aspects of this topic:
onepeterfive.com/getting-it-wrong-about-the-death-penalty/
Personally, I’ll continue to hold on to what Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Saints have addressed in regard to capital punishment. I will always respect and listen to Pope Francis, but he has absolutely no authority to trump God’s Word merely because he feels it conflicts with his sentiment. He has a right to personal opinions, but it would be best if he spoke with more prudence in accordance with what is clearly established in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Dei Verbum II 10
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Tomdstone
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I disagree. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven. He has been given the keys to the kingdom of heaven by Our Divine Lord and as such, he must be listened to when speaking on faith and morals. The Supreme Head of the Roman Catholic Church is the final authority on the interpretation of Holy Scripture. Private interpretation of Scripture is not appropriate for a Catholic.Bill1940 is correct, i.e., no Pope can alter or rewrite or make Sacred Scripture null and void, as in the case of this particular issue, and there is clearly a significant set of Scriptural references, as well as citations from Sacred Tradition and Saints, all of which speak to the contrary of recent comments. When Pope Francis makes such noted statements, he is merely giving his personal opinion, not to be confused with establishing some universal new truth in an infallible declaration. It’s often been the case with this Successor of Peter that his words have given rise to much confusion, especially about this and other long-held traditional issues making the news. I recently read a good article that covers several aspects of this topic:
onepeterfive.com/getting-it-wrong-about-the-death-penalty/
Personally, I’ll continue to hold on to what Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Saints have addressed in regard to capital punishment. I will always respect and listen to Pope Francis, but he has absolutely no authority to trump God’s Word merely because he feels it conflicts with his sentiment. He has a right to personal opinions, but it would be best if he spoke with more prudence in accordance with what is clearly established in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Dei Verbum II 10
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Silver_Thread
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The Pope is not infallible every time he opens his mouth regardless if the topic is secular or of faith and morals. He must state specifically that what he says is binding (Ex-Cathedrae ?).I disagree. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven. He has been given the keys to the kingdom of heaven by Our Divine Lord and as such, he must be listened to when speaking on faith and morals. The Supreme Head of the Roman Catholic Church is the final authority on the interpretation of Holy Scripture. Private interpretation of Scripture is not appropriate for a Catholic.
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Elizium23
Guest
The Holy Father is welcome to guide the Church in matters of prudential judgement just as other bishops do. I think it is often forgotten in official communications to mention whether an object of political action is doctrinal and thus non-negotiable, or of prudential judgement and therefore open to disagreement. We are seeing much of this in the United States from the USCCB in regards to immigration reform. Many teaching documents and statements have come from various bishops of the USA, but in the end, immigration and its legal boundaries is a social justice issue that is largely in the realm of prudential judgement.The Pope is not infallible every time he opens his mouth regardless if the topic is secular or of faith and morals. He must state specifically that what he says is binding (Ex-Cathedrae ?).
Capital punishment is clearly a contentious issue and leads me often to conflict in my pro-life views. I believe in defending innocent life. I believe in justice. I feel this leads me to personally favor capital punishment, while still humbly accepting the guidance of my ordinary and the Holy Father in a difficult political landscape.
Even if you come to the decision that you do favour capital punishment, you commit no sin in doing so and, as per Cardinal Ratzinger, may continue to worthily receive Holy Communion.The Holy Father is welcome to guide the Church in matters of prudential judgement just as other bishops do. I think it is often forgotten in official communications to mention whether an object of political action is doctrinal and thus non-negotiable, or of prudential judgement and therefore open to disagreement. We are seeing much of this in the United States from the USCCB in regards to immigration reform. Many teaching documents and statements have come from various bishops of the USA, but in the end, immigration and its legal boundaries is a social justice issue that is largely in the realm of prudential judgement.
Capital punishment is clearly a contentious issue and leads me often to conflict in my pro-life views. I believe in defending innocent life. I believe in justice. I feel this leads me to personally favor capital punishment, while still humbly accepting the guidance of my ordinary and the Holy Father in a difficult political landscape.
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eamonnroma
Guest
I might favour divorce - as long as I do not get divorced, I can still worthily receive Holy Communion. So yes, I agree with you.Even if you come to the decision that you do favour capital punishment, you commit no sin in doing so and, as per Cardinal Ratzinger, may continue to worthily receive Holy Communion.
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Elizium23
Guest
Except that divorce is grave matter, so it is not a fair comparison to make. Catholics in good conscience may not favor divorce.I might favour divorce - as long as I do not get divorced, I can still worthily receive Holy Communion. So yes, I agree with you.
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eamonnroma
Guest
And killing another human being (DP) is not grave?Except that divorce is grave matter, so it is not a fair comparison to make. Catholics in good conscience may not favor divorce.
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Sirious
Guest
The people here who adamantly defend the death penalty seem to show what kind of person they truly are. Hate and vindictiveness have no place in the Catholic heart. Were they alive in Jerusalem ca. 33 A.D., no doubt they would be in the crowd yelling “crucify him, crucify him!”
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agnes_therese
Guest
Getting divorced does not automatically exclude you from Holy Communion.I might favour divorce - as long as I do not get divorced, I can still worthily receive Holy Communion. So yes, I agree with you.
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agnes_therese
Guest
While I personally do not support the death penalty, I think it’s grossly unfair to accuse all who do support it of “hate and vindictiveness.” Many supporters have thought and prayed about the subject before coming to their conclusion.The people here who adamantly defend the death penalty seem to show what kind of person they truly are. Hate and vindictiveness have no place in the Catholic heart. Were they alive in Jerusalem ca. 33 A.D., no doubt they would be in the crowd yelling “crucify him, crucify him!”
Rash accusations also have no place in the Catholic heart.
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Sirious
Guest
I’m sure he thanks you for your permission to be the leader the Holy Ghost chose him to be.The Holy Father is welcome to guide the Church…
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Elizium23
Guest
It must be done for a grave reason, but it is not grave matter. “Grave matter” is a term of moral theology to denote something that is a potential mortal sin. Executing a criminal does not put anyone in mortal sin, as long as the requirements for justice are met.And killing another human being (DP) is not grave?
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Tomdstone
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As long as the requirements for justice are met? But a lynch mob believes that these requirements have been met. ISIS believes that it is justified in executing people. Who decides that the requirements for justice have been met?Executing a criminal does not put anyone in mortal sin, as long as the requirements for justice are met.
Your sarcasm and uncharitable tone are not appreciated.I’m sure he thanks you for your permission to be the leader the Holy Ghost chose him to be.
The people here who adamantly defend the death penalty seem to show what kind of person they truly are. Hate and vindictiveness have no place in the Catholic heart. Were they alive in Jerusalem ca. 33 A.D., no doubt they would be in the crowd yelling “crucify him, crucify him!”
- Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals,** it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty,** but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
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Corki
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Careful now.The people here who adamantly defend the death penalty seem to show what kind of person they truly are. Hate and vindictiveness have no place in the Catholic heart. Were they alive in Jerusalem ca. 33 A.D., no doubt they would be in the crowd yelling “crucify him, crucify him!”
It is extremely rare to find any poster on CAF who defends the death penalty, let alone “adamantly”.
What you will find more is people who have read what the Church has taught about capital punishment over the centuries and who understand that capital punishment is not a absolute moral evil. The Church has never taught that, nor could she.
One must first understand why the Church has always taught that capital punishment is sometimes permissible. Only then, can you reasonably make the case that using capital punishment, in the 21st Century, in the Western world is not prudent.
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