Pope as Prophet

[KP3243]

Here is a good article from Pope Benedict before he was Pope about what prophesy is an isn’t and the distinction of the Old Testament prophets and prophets since Jesus died and rose from the dead.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6439

 

[KP3243]

This is similar to what I always point out to the protestants–if the Old Covenant took nothing less than Jesus Christ to amend…and Christ prophesied and founded a Church…and that Church existed visibly for 1500 years…then wouldn’t it take an act of divine intervention, to amend that Church, as drastically as the reformation purports to have ‘amended’ it?​

I was just thinking about this this morning.

 

[DebChris]

Here is a good article from Pope Benedict before he was Pope about what prophesy is and isn’t and the distinction of the Old Testament prophets and prophets since Jesus died and rose from the dead.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6439

Hope has given way to presence.
The Holy Spirit must always have the possibility of action. Our God is alive! He continues to live in His people. The prophetic-charismatic history traverses the whole time of the Church, especially during its most critical times.
“The prophets are the ones who bring out Christianity’s dimension of hope.”

 

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

This is similar to what I always point out to the protestants–if the Old Covenant took nothing less than Jesus Christ to amend…and Christ prophesied and founded a Church…and that Church existed visibly for 1500 years…then wouldn’t it take an act of divine intervention, to amend that Church, as drastically as the reformation purports to have ‘amended’ it?​

I was just thinking about this this morning.

Many Protestants would say it was an act of divine intervention, as God very often works through ordinary men.

 

[KP3243]

Many Protestants would say it was an act of divine intervention, as God very often works through ordinary men.

That doesn’t make sense. God established the laws only He can abolish them and how do you know who is acting on behalf of God and who is acting in their own selfish interest without a final infallible authority to determine truth of faith and false lies of faith, that is why Catholicism is the only church that makes sense. The Pope is infallible on only faith and morals and they hardly ever use this authority. That is why even when we have had rotten Popes, there never was any radical doctrinal changes while they served - they all know who is in charge and that if they tried to declare something false as truth, God would take their lives they forced Him to.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Yep very true.

I wonder if LDS missionaries are officially taught this as one of the main issues to raise when evangelising Catholics?

Well I think it is because for LDS, one of the main things they bring up is that they believe in continuing revelation, that God continues to speak, “the Heavens are open” (their leaders are fond of saying this), that there are prophets and apostles today just as there were anciently, etc. So, the LDS missionaries are probably trying to convince you that because Catholics and other Christians believe in a closed scriptural canon, and that public revelation was completed with the death of the apostles, that there is some difference between this and how the New Testament Church operated.

On the other hand, I think it’s clear from Catholic history that, while the canon is closed and public revelation is complete, the Heavens are not closed. God still speaks to His children, we can pray and receive inspiration from Him. Various saints have received spiritual visions. The Marian apparitions are an example of Heavenly messengers still visiting the earth. Catholics believe that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Etc. You can share all of this with the LDS missionaries, and show them why the LDS belief in a restoration wasn’t necessary.

 

[Goya]

Many Protestants would say it was an act of divine intervention, as God very often works through ordinary men.

I’m quite sure some will, do, and have already done so, as protestantism is prone to taking whatever liberties with the Word of God, as will suit their desires.

But it would be both unbiblical, and I’d submit, anti-biblical, to suggest such. Christ was prophesied throughout the Old Testament. Christ fulfilled those prophesies in and through His birth, life, death and resurrection. In His earthly ministry, Christ prophesied a Church, which has of course, come into fruition–the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which Christ Himself founded, and which still stands to this day. Christ prophesied that this church–His Church–would stand to the end of times, and would not fall to the ‘gates of Hades’. Christ’s earthly ministry and life, yielded the New Testament.

But neither Christ–nor any biblical (or other) ‘divine revelation,’ ever prophesied anything resembling the reformation…or protestantism…or even the supremacy of the bible, or ‘sola scriptura’, or ‘sola fide’, or any other pillar of Protestantism.

Yet clearly, the degree by which protestantism pretends to have altered (and purported to divide) the Church and the Faith that Christ bequeathed to His chosen Apostles, who in turn did the same to their chosen successors, who in turn did the same…would require divine revelation, to be consistent with the Bible itself…

…alas……sorry to inform…it’s just not in there.

 

[Goya]

^^^worth noting–‘divine intervention’ would not, in fact, could not, contradict ‘divine revelation’, to be consistent with it–especially within the framework of the Bible–for God is not bound by time. If the reformation were foreknown (as it naturally would be–by God)–as part of the Church’s plan–prior to Christ’s return–it would have been prophesied in the New Testament.

 

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

I’m quite sure some will, do, and have already done so, as protestantism is prone to taking whatever liberties with the Word of God, as will suit their desires.

But it would be both unbiblical, and I’d submit, anti-biblical, to suggest such. Christ was prophesied throughout the Old Testament. Christ fulfilled those prophesies in and through His birth, life, death and resurrection. In His earthly ministry, Christ prophesied a Church, which has of course, come into fruition–the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which Christ Himself founded, and which still stands to this day. Christ prophesied that this church–His Church–would stand to the end of times, and would not fall to the ‘gates of Hades’. Christ’s earthly ministry and life, yielded the New Testament.

But neither Christ–nor any biblical (or other) ‘divine revelation,’ ever prophesied anything resembling the reformation…or protestantism…or even the supremacy of the bible, or ‘sola scriptura’, or ‘sola fide’, or any other pillar of Protestantism.

Yet clearly, the degree by which protestantism pretends to have altered (and purported to divide) the Church and the Faith that Christ bequeathed to His chosen Apostles, who in turn did the same to their chosen successors, who in turn did the same…would require divine revelation, to be consistent with the Bible itself…

…alas……sorry to inform…it’s just not in there.

Despite Christ’s promise, have there not been many good Catholics reforms and reformers throughout Church history, to battle corruption and ill practice? Many Protestants would see the Reformation as simply another great Reform, bringing the Church back to where it’s meant to be.

It doesn’t have to have been prophesied in the Bible, just like any other great Catholic reform wasn’t prophesied.

 

[Goya]

Despite Christ’s promise, have there not been many good Catholics reforms and reformers throughout Church history, to battle corruption and ill practice? Many Protestants would see the Reformation as simply another great Reform, bringing the Church back to where it’s meant to be.

It doesn’t have to have been prophesied in the Bible, just like any other great Catholic reform wasn’t prophesied.

Sure, it helped bring THE CHURCH back to where it was meant to be–it’s commonly known as the ‘counter-reformation’.

…but the reformation LEFT the Church, and founded thousands of other ‘churches’ to compete with it.

NB: this is why I always place ‘reformation’ in quotes, or 's–because ‘reform’ occurs within–protestantism, grew without*.

Even if Luther had good intentions and valid gripes…HIS movement devolved into a proliferation of ‘churches’ to compete with Christ’s Church–THE CHURCH–for souls, resources, message content, authority, etc…and of course, directly attacked the Church’s unity.

Sorry sir, but that’s not ‘reformation’–that’s ‘deformation’, if not (at least attempted), destruction.

Had protestantism succeeded in pirating the Word of God–it would have succeeded in destroying the Church that Christ actually founded.

…alas, it failed–just as Christ promised all such efforts would fail–for THE CHURCH that Christ founded–complete with the Sacraments He instituted–especially the Eucharist (and therefore HIM)–hierarchy, unity, means to preserve such unity–among other characteristics He instituted–remains quite alive.

 

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

Sure, it helped bring THE CHURCH back to where it was meant to be–it’s commonly known as the ‘counter-reformation’.

…but the reformation LEFT the Church, and founded thousands of other ‘churches’ to compete with it.

NB: this is why I always place ‘reformation’ in quotes, or 's–because ‘reform’ occurs within–protestantism, grew without*.

Even if Luther had good intentions and valid gripes…HIS movement devolved into a proliferation of ‘churches’ to compete with Christ’s Church–THE CHURCH–for souls, resources, message content, authority, etc…and of course, directly attacked the Church’s unity.

Sorry sir, but that’s not ‘reformation’–that’s ‘deformation’, if not (at least attempted), destruction.

Had protestantism succeeded in pirating the Word of God–it would have succeeded in destroying the Church that Christ actually founded.

…alas, it failed–just as Christ promised all such efforts would fail–for THE CHURCH that Christ founded–complete with the Sacraments He instituted–especially the Eucharist (and therefore HIM)–hierarchy, unity, means to preserve such unity–among other characteristics He instituted–remains quite alive.

Agreed!

 

[Goya]

Agreed!