Pope Benedict and Bishop Williamson

[Contarini]

I feel very uneasy about the unlifting of the excomunication. I feel like we are being betrayed. BenedictXVII either has a soft spot for tradition,or he is very evil.

Excuse me? By what logic does the lifting of an excommunication even possibly mean that he is “very evil”?

You do know, don’t you, that the excommunication never had anything to do with Bishop Williamson’s views on the Holocaust?

Edwin

 

[kleary]

Actually, the Pope lifted the excommunications of the Bishops as an act of mercy and to reunite the Catholic Church. They are to obedient to the Pope…not vice versa. The lifting of the excommunications doesn’t imply that they were right all along at all. We will all have to wait and see what happens next. The church on earth is the militant church there will always be suffering and striving to do the Will of God…we all have to pray that the church becomes completely united according to God’s will and remember our enemies are not each other but the fallen angels. We are at war while the true enemies are united; we have been divided for far to long. As I recall most of the greatest saints were raised up in times of great turmoil in the church those who come to mind are St Francis, St John of the Cross, St Therese, St Catherine of Sienna God worked through all of them because of their humble submission to God and their superiors not from being defiant to the Pope. God just doesn’t work that way.

As I attended the Novus Ordo this past Sunday - watched one old man drop the Sacred Host onto the floor - It broke into several pieces as he attempted to pick It up- then stuffed the pieces into his other hand and kept walking…then watched the lay minister of Holy Communion drop two Sacred hosts onto the floor by mistake…the priest never covering It and the floor area where the Sacred Host fell…knowing that the rubrics for the TLM require on the tongue, kneeling and a paten must be used … area covered with Corporal and cleaned thoroughly by the priest after Mass… you figure it out.

Ken

 

[Auntie_M]

Maybe someone could clear up a misunderstanding I have had for quite some time.

About 4 years ago I discovered the Society of St Pius X, never knew it existed until then. But anyway, they were really bad mouthing the Pope and Vatican 11, but kept saying they were “in communion” with them.
They squashed a rumor about their “excommunication” saying it was untrue.

The one thing that I kept asking and no one could answer, “Why would they want to be in communion with Rome, if Rome is so bad?” No one has offered a reason why they held themselves out to be “in communion” when, in reality they were excommunicated.

Anybody?

 

[maurin]

they were really bad mouthing the Pope and Vatican 11, but kept saying they were “in communion” with them.
They squashed a rumor about their “excommunication” saying it was untrue.

who’s “they”, Auntie M?

 

[Timothysis]

As I attended the Novus Ordo this past Sunday - watched one old man drop the Sacred Host onto the floor - It broke into several pieces as he attempted to pick It up- then stuffed the pieces into his other hand and kept walking…then watched the lay minister of Holy Communion drop two Sacred hosts onto the floor by mistake…the priest never covering It and the floor area where the Sacred Host fell…knowing that the rubrics for the TLM require on the tongue, kneeling and a paten must be used … area covered with Corporal and cleaned thoroughly by the priest after Mass… you figure it out.

Ken

Interesting that you have seen more Hosts dropped to the floor in one Mass than I’ve seen in a lifetime of Masses.

Be careful or your nose is going to grow.

 

[maurin]

Interesting that you have seen more Hosts dropped to the floor in one Mass than I’ve seen in a lifetime of Masses.

Be careful or your nose is going to grow.

no reason to insinuate that anyone is lying, Timothysis.

Things happen, whether you admit the possibility or not.

 

[Timothysis]

Things happen, whether you admit the possibility or not.

And things sometimes don’t happen, even though others admit that they do.

 

[maurin]

And things sometimes don’t happen, even though others admit that they do.

so that’s your line, and you’re sticking to it. Good luck with that!

 

[sonofourlady]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t trying to insinuate that the SSPX collectively is the enemy of Rome or of the Pope but the expression that I used “Keep your friends close but your enemies closer” was more in reference to Bishop Williamson in particular.

 

[Auntie_M]

who’s “they”, Auntie M?

I’m sorry, I have a one track mind with two trains on it. The “they” I was referring to are the priest and some of the laity of the SSPX, At least this was coming from the ones I have met.

The laity was told that the SSPX was in full communion with Rome. No problems, except what the comes out of the Vatican.

 

[maurin]

I’m sorry, I have a one track mind with two trains on it. The “they” I was referring to are the priest and laity of the SSPX, At least this was coming from the ones I have met.

I believe that it is a possibility that what you say happened actually happened–Timothysis’ theory aside-- but I have attended 3 SSPX Chapels on more than a number of occassions and never heard anything of the sort.

Quite honestly Auntie M, is it possible you may be exaggerating, even if just a tad?

 

[Auntie_M]

I believe that it is a possibility that what you say happened actually happened–Timothysis’ theory aside-- but I have attended 3 SSPX Chapels on more than a number of occassions and never heard anything of the sort.

Quite honestly Auntie M, is it possible you may be exaggerating, even if just a tad?

Maurin, I truly wish I were. But sorry, this is a fact. I never exaggerate on matters of this importance. So could you answer my other questions?

 

[Thomas58]

Maybe someone could clear up a misunderstanding I have had for quite some time.

About 4 years ago I discovered the Society of St Pius X, never knew it existed until then. But anyway, they were really bad mouthing the Pope and Vatican 11, but kept saying they were “in communion” with them. They squashed a rumor about their “excommunication” saying it was untrue.

The one thing that I kept asking and no one could answer, “Why would they want to be in communion with Rome, if Rome is so bad?” No one has offered a reason why they held themselves out to be “in communion” when, in reality they were excommunicated.

Anybody?

You ask a very good question Auntie M. I have always understood the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church to be that the Church is one in doctrine, discipline and one in sacraments under the Pope. The Church is undivided in itself and is separated from all others and it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

The SSPX as well as many other “traditionalist Catholics” do not adhere to this teaching of subjection to the Roman Pontiff. They believe it is possible to “recognize but resist” the Pope. They believe that they can pick and choose through what he says and does as what to accept and what to reject. The SSPX believes that they can negotiate with the Pope as to what parts of Vatican II, for instance, they can accept and what parts they can reject.

This position is a fallacy. If you have a true Pope, you don’t negotiate with him, you submit to him. Evil cannot come from the Church and error cannot come from the Church, otherwise the Church has failed and we know that this cannot happen based on our Lord’s promise to His Church found in Matthew 16:18.

I know we are getting off topic of the OP, but maybe someone could expound on this idea of being in “partial communion” with the Church. I always thought you were either in the Catholic Church or you were not. Either you were Catholic or you were not. Where did this idea of being in "full “or “partial” communion come from?

Thomas

 

[maurin]

Maurin, I truly wish I were. But sorry, this is a fact. I never exaggerate on matters of this importance. So could you answer my other questions?

Again Auntie M, I can admit to the possibility that all of what you say here and above (and I certainly do not have reason to doubt your integrity) is true–Timothysis’ assertion to the contrary above-- but without any type of substantiation, it’s kind of like replying to chimera, or chasing windmills.

What you have described is not a method of the Society, and having been attendance at 3 different Chapels in two different States I have never encountered the type of rhetoric you describe.

 

[pnewton]

Interesting that you have seen more Hosts dropped to the floor in one Mass than I’ve seen in a lifetime of Masses.

Be careful or your nose is going to grow.

It is inappropriate to accuse anyone here of lying. If you find the story to be incredible, realize that with thousands of members, many things are possible for a single incident. Likewise, it is likely that some lies will be told. We should keep such judgements to ourselves. If the story is unique enough, others like you will take it with a grain of salt. No need for accusations to fly.

 

[Auntie_M]

Again Auntie M, I can admit to the possibility that all of what you say here and above (and I certainly do not have reason to doubt your integrity) is true–Timothysis’ assertion to the contrary above-- but without any type of substantiation, it’s kind of like replying to chimera, or chasing windmills.

What you have described is not a method of the Society, and having been attendance at 3 different Chapels in two different States I have never encountered the type of rhetoric you describe.

I’m sorry, Maurin, but going to 3 different chapels in two different states would probably not allow you to “hear” anything negative. You need to go to 1 chapel for quite a while and “get in with them” before they will open up and say things of this nature.

They are a very clannish group and don’t “talk” to “outsiders” like they do among themselves. I happened to go with one of their own so I guess they felt a little more secure about talking in front of me.

Peace

 

[Auntie_M]

It is anyone’s perogative to believe or not. I have found it to be true that most who support the Society will not believe anything detremental about them. This is your right. (It wasn’t believed about what Williamson said till he was forced to confess it.)
As my grandmother used to say…

Be watchful and pray…you will know them by their fruits.

 

[maurin]

I’m sorry, Maurin, but going to 3 different chapels in two different states would probably not allow you to “hear” anything negative. You need to go to 1 chapel for quite a while and “get in with them” before they will open up and say things of this nature.

They are a very clannish group and don’t “talk” to “outsiders” like they do among themselves. I happened to go with one of their own so I guess they felt a little more secure about talking in front of me.

Peace

sorry, I think you’ve misunderstood. I have spent plenty of time in all three chapels. Many of the snowbirds share 2 of the Chapels in their “migrations.”

Auntie, excuse me, but exactly how much time have you spent in an SSPX Chapel?

 

[maurin]

It is anyone’s perogative to believe or not. I have found it to be true that most who support the Society will not believe anything detremental about them. This is your right. (It wasn’t believed about what Williamson said till he was forced to confess it.)
As my grandmother used to say…

Be watchful and pray…you will know them by their fruits.

Your grandmother was Jesus? (I’m joking–He said those things too.)

Auntie, do you entertain that it is possible that what you have found to be true, isn’t the whole truth?

 

[TMC]

Be not afraid.

Remember the reasons why the bishops were excommunicated: it had nothing to do with the rejection of Vatican 2. They were excommunicated because of their illicit consecration as bishops.

All excommunications are intended to be lifted; they are not ecclesial death sentences. An excommunication is designed to bring about communication.

It had NOTHING to do with their rejection Vatican II? That’s like saying jumping off the building didn’t kill him, hitting the ground did.