Pope Benedict and Holy Communion

[PaulAndrew83]

Dear all,

I am in the process of finishing a long treatise on the proper reception of Holy Communion. I posted a very short but substantial post summarizing a small part of the treatise a while ago. It was lead to four pages and I got some things out of it because it provides even more arguments to refute.

Whats happening today in the High end of the Church is quite interesting.

In history there are a number of examples of high prelates and popes reforming the church from the very top, for example Pope St Pius V and St Charles Borromeo. The middle ages is replete with reforms coming from Rome on clerical celibacy, lay investiture, and others.

What is happening today? Well for starters the Pope no longer gives Holy Communion in the hand. A Bishop has written a book called Dominus Est which has received only good comments from the congregation of Divine Worship. Cardinal Arinze stated that “I have read the whole book with delight, it is excellent” [1] The comments by Archbishop Ranjith about reevaluating the practice of receiving in the hand. [2]

The Cardinal of Peru who describes finding Holy Communion on the floor after large Masses has banned it in his diocese. [3]

These are the things that are happening today.

Holy Communion in the hand died out over 1200-1500[4] years ago, doubtless the Holy Spirit wished it so or it would not have happened.

There are two things that I am going to state. The first is that the Church is in need of reform and the sincere catholic wishes to see that happen. The second is with regards to this issue of receiving Holy Communion in the hand the Reform that is wished is moving in the direction of getting rid of the practice.

The question is, how many faithful catholics will actually stall and think “Hang on a minute, if the Pope has stopped it maybe it isn’t a good idea after all?”

Paul

1. Catholic Herald. December 19th. will provide reference if it becomes online.
2. Multiple sources online, inclu. catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=49460
3. Again Multiple sources inclu. catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=57890
4. Dominus Est. Bishop Schneider is a patristic scholar who dates the beginning of the end of the practice as the 5th and 6 th centuries.

 

[FrDavid96]

Paul,
I often think of Communion in the hand as an experiment that failed. This practice was begun as an act of disobedience–people were doing it before it was permitted. The Church eventually gave-up on trying to enforce the norm and made it a permitted practice. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this set a bad precedent. Hopefully, the Church will soon come to the realization that this might not have been the best course of action, and will reverse the decision. There is cause for that hope. In the meantime, it’s a licit option so long as it’s done properly.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

The Catholic position is to follow the reform and be part of that reform. Hence the Saints of our times right now are against this practice.

Paul

 

[bpbasilphx]

Holy Communion in the hand died out over 1200-1500[4] years ago, doubtless the Holy Spirit wished it so or it would not have happened.

**Not in the Assyrian/Chaldean tradition, or in the Liturgy of St. James.

Both of which are still living practices.

I will also add that I ALWAYS receive on the tongue, and will receive on the hand ONLY at the Assyro-Chaldean Qorbono or Liturgy of St. Basil, where this is the ancient received practice.

I might receive in the hand at a megamass if I felt that it would be more conducive to not losing the Holy Gifts.**

 

[bpcatholic]

Do you still bow and say amen if you were to receive on the tongue?

 

[FrDavid96]

Do you still bow and say amen if you were to receive on the tongue?

Yes, but you should make the bow before the priest says “The Body of Christ” (some people make themselves into moving targets) and of course, you say “Amen” before he places the Eucharist on your tongue (that might seem obvious, but to many communicants it isn’t).

 

[bpcatholic]

Yes, but you should make the bow before the priest says “The Body of Christ” (some people make themselves into moving targets) and of course, you say “Amen” before he places the Eucharist on your tongue (that might seem obvious, but to many communicants it isn’t).

Thanks!

 

[puzzleannie]

.

The question is, how many faithful catholics will actually stall and think “Hang on a minute, if the Pope has stopped it maybe it isn’t a good idea after all?”

.

there will probably be many more faithful Catholics, like me, who will just wait until their pastor or bishop issues a ruling, and then obey it. Until then, unless they are receiving from a priest or deacon who knows the proper way to communicate on the tongue, they will continue receiving in the hand.

 

[Saintlucy]

there will probably be many more faithful Catholics, like me, who will just wait until their pastor or bishop issues a ruling, and then obey it. Until then, unless they are receiving from a priest or deacon who knows the proper way to communicate on the tongue, they will continue receiving in the hand.

I agree, Puzzleannie. It is about time that our bishops saw the abuses that go on. I have had wierd looks from priests, nun and extraordinary ministers because I won’t receive Communion in the hand.

There was a mentally disabled guy that used to come to church. At least we think he was. He distrupted Mass every Sunday by arriving, very late,usually in the middle of the gospel. He tried to take the host away. He put it into his top shirt pocket. Father saw this and stopped him. We’ve not seen him since.

There are many abuses that go on. I don’t understand why this practise was allowed in the first place.

 

[Margarite]

there will probably be many more faithful Catholics, like me, who will just wait until their pastor or bishop issues a ruling, and then obey it. Until then, unless they are receiving from a priest or deacon who knows the proper way to communicate on the tongue, they will continue receiving in the hand.

Everyone knows the proper way: stick it on the tongue, the tongue is wet so it sticks. It is so simple a child could do it. That is no excuse.
As far as the rest of what you said, do agree with the clown mass that is allowed by priests and bishops in California? Just because a priest or bishop allows something does not make it good. Rome is where we should all be looking to, not the local authorities who have failed us time and again.

God gave us brains and Rome, use both.
Happy New Year!

 

[Margarite]

I agree, Puzzleannie. It is about time that our bishops saw the abuses that go on. I have had wierd looks from priests, nun and extraordinary ministers because I won’t receive Communion in the hand.

There was a mentally disabled guy that used to come to church. At least we think he was. He distrupted Mass every Sunday by arriving, very late,usually in the middle of the gospel. He tried to take the host away. He put it into his top shirt pocket. Father saw this and stopped him. We’ve not seen him since.

There are many abuses that go on. I don’t understand why this practise was allowed in the first place.

You don’t seem to agree.
Happy New Year!

 

[mullenpm]

What a peculiar statement:

“Until then, unless they are receiving from a priest or deacon who knows the proper way to communicate on the tongue, they will continue receiving in the hand.”

I have been receiving Holy Communion long before V2 and I have never changed, as some have, to receive in my hand. The thought of placing the Host in my hand is unthinkable.

But all in those years I have never found a Priest and/or Deacon who did not know how to distribute Holy Communion on the tongue. That is a silly statement.

I am very pleased to see that on the EWTN “Daily Mass” broadcast from their small chapel in Irondale all the Brothers now kneel before they receive the Host. This practice started on Christmas Eve and it is wonderful.

I noticed that one or two other communicants now also kneel to receive; there had always been one man who knelt to receive, now, he is not alone. Perhaps soon they might supply a kneeler.

One step at a time – stop receiving in the hand; and kneel to receive.:clapping:

 

[PaulAndrew83]

There seems to be nothing against what I am saying.

The Pope is reforming the way Holy Communion is received. The Good and faithful Catholic should follow.

Any other random statement is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want to say something, the substance of what you should be saying is “I think the Pope is wrong etc and therefore I will continue to ignore the fragments of the Blessed Sacrament.”

Mentioning the assyrian/chaldean rite which perhaps has less than 0.5% of the worlds catholics does not effect the statement of Bishop Schneider that the practice pretty much died out. The practice in the liturgy of St James is completely different to the way roman catholics ignore the fragments of the Blessed Sacrament.

Paul

Paul

 

[thistle]

There seems to be nothing against what I am saying.

The Pope is reforming the way Holy Communion is received. The Good and faithful Catholic should follow.

Any other random statement is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want to say something, the substance of what you should be saying is “I think the Pope is wrong etc and therefore I will continue to ignore the fragments of the Blessed Sacrament.”

Mentioning the assyrian/chaldean rite which perhaps has less than 0.5% of the worlds catholics does not effect the statement of Bishop Schneider that the practice pretty much died out. The practice in the liturgy of St James is completely different to the way roman catholics ignore the fragments of the Blessed Sacrament.

Paul

Paul

The Pope has NOT declared that Communion in the hand is banned. Reception on the tongue and in the hand are both valid and people should stop being so self righteous by telling everyone they should only receive on the tongue. I happen to receive on the tongue but I am aware that both ways are valid and allowed. As long as the Church permits it people should be humble and obedient to the Church.

 

[dove51]

I knew the Holy Father is in favor of reception on the tongue, but I did not know about Dominus Est or the other things you mentioned. Thank you for the links. I hope Pope Benedict can do something to restore the older practice again.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Everyone knows the proper way: stick it on the tongue, the tongue is wet so it sticks. It is so simple a child could do it. That is no excuse.
As far as the rest of what you said, do agree with the clown mass that is allowed by priests and bishops in California? Just because a priest or bishop allows something does not make it good. Rome is where we should all be looking to, not the local authorities who have failed us time and again.

God gave us brains and Rome, use both.
Happy New Year!

True enough, but many do not know how to Receive on the tongue. I have had my fingers bitten & licked. And once your fingers are wet, the host sticks to them, and there is a real possibility of it dropping from the next communicant.

Lux

 

[puzzleannie]

Everyone knows the proper way: stick it on the tongue, the tongue is wet so it sticks. It is so simple a child could do it. That is no excuse.
!

lucky you to be around extraordinary ministers who have been properly trained. many of us do not have that luxury.

 

[bpcatholic]

I took Communion on the tongue this morning and the Minister didn’t even stick on my tongue properly. It almost fell out but my lips caught it (or Him?). I have received on the tongue before, but this was the first time at my parish. I felt a little embarrassed at first. Hopefully my example will lead others. I see more and more people receiving on the tongue at my parish!

 

[PaulAndrew83]

The Pope has NOT declared that Communion in the hand is banned. Reception on the tongue and in the hand are both valid and people should stop being so self righteous by telling everyone they should only receive on the tongue. I happen to receive on the tongue but I am aware that both ways are valid and allowed. As long as the Church permits it people should be humble and obedient to the Church.

Takes a while to ban something. Fixing a problem of this magnitude will take a generation. Are you going to be the one that exacerbates the problem or becomes part of the solution.

If you know anything about history, particularly the history of Church problems you should know this.

On example that isn’t mentioned very much is St Catherine of Siennas struggle to get the Holy Father to go back to Rome. Think about it. If you read the original post in this thread you will see that the point is that there is a problem and the Pope is leading by example.

Paul

 

[Margarite]

lucky you to be around extraordinary ministers who have been properly trained. many of us do not have that luxury.

Oh, please!!! I have been in some of the worst churches in the Nation and a couple really bad ones in Germany and the UK, and every single EM gets the fact that when I stick out my tongue they stick Our Lord onto my tongue and then I walk away. My entire family (8 including my parents) have never had a problem, and all of us travel to all parts of the country and Europe every summer. Please don’t say something so silly!!!