Pope Benedict IX

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Is it true that Pope Benedict IX held wild bi-sexual orgies? I am not trying to inflame anyone, but I did read that. We do know that the popes of the past have abused indulgences as a way to steal money from widows and line their own pockets. We also know that more recently many priests have been accused and convicted of molesting children. Because of these, how can we still trust that the Holy Spirit is leading the RCC?
 
Is it true that Pope Benedict IX held wild bi-sexual orgies? I am not trying to inflame anyone, but I did read that. We do know that the popes of the past have abused indulgences as a way to steal money from widows and line their own pockets. We also know that more recently many priests have been accused and convicted of molesting children. Because of these, how can we still trust that the Holy Spirit is leading the RCC?
Where is the line of sin among Catholic priests, on the one side where one can say “the Holy Spirit is leading the Church” and on the other side where one can say “the Holy Spirit is not leading the Church”?

And if one did a Lexis/Nexis search for crimes and bad behavior among Protestant ministers, what would one find, and what conclusions should one draw from those findings?
 
Where is the line of sin among Catholic priests, on the one side where one can say “the Holy Spirit is leading the Church” and on the other side where one can say “the Holy Spirit is not leading the Church”?

And if one did a Lexis/Nexis search for crimes and bad behavior among Protestant ministers, what would one find, and what conclusions should one draw from those findings?
Actually, this why I am concerned about this history. I am certainly not denying any Protestant wrongdoing. I just read a thread that someone started about all the evil-doers amongst the Protestant preachers of the past. When I said I thought it was unfair considering these things of the Catholic past, I was told I may be banned. I genuinely am drawn to the Catholic faith because of its lineage and history and also because I know Jesus said that he was sending the Holy Spirit to guide the church (I’ve stated that on here a lot), and I think it’s unreasonable to think that the Holy Spirit is guiding all Protestants in different directions. The only obstacle that I see to this line of reasoning is the past that I forementioned. Forget the Protestant past. I am not interested in it. If I am to believe the Catholic faith, I have to overcome this. Help me.
 
Because of these, how can we still trust that the Holy Spirit is leading the RCC?
Two of Jesus’ own Apostles betrayed him, one of them to his death. Given the gravity of these sins, why should we believe anything at all?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Actually, this why I am concerned about this history. I am certainly not denying any Protestant wrongdoing. I just read a thread that someone started about all the evil-doers amongst the Protestant preachers of the past. When I said I thought it was unfair considering these things of the Catholic past, I was told I may be banned. I genuinely am drawn to the Catholic faith because of its lineage and history and also because I know Jesus said that he was sending the Holy Spirit to guide the church (I’ve stated that on here a lot), and I think it’s unreasonable to think that the Holy Spirit is guiding all Protestants in different directions. The only obstacle that I see to this line of reasoning is the past that I forementioned. Forget the Protestant past. I am not interested in it. If I am to believe the Catholic faith, I have to overcome this. Help me.
OK, understood. Jesus gave us an example of the thing you are concerned about. That example was Judas, picked by Christ as one of his 12 apostles, but who freely (and gravely) sinned against him. And look at the Old Testament, where those chosen by God, who were supposed to be serving God, committed sin after sin after sin.

It’s the human condition, the Fall. And not even just the human condition, because 1/3 of the angels rebelled, and they were in the presence of God!

You might ponder a reverse question to the one you ask. How, with so much sinning by some of its priests and bishops and popes, has the Church held together for 2000 years? Why hasn’t it disintegrated into thousands of sects the way Protestantism has in only 500 years?
 
Two of Jesus’ own Apostles betrayed him, one of them to his death. Given the gravity of these sins, why should we believe anything at all?

– Mark L. Chance.
I accept that reasoning for the priests’ sins. However, Peter and his successors have the binding and loosening powers. Peter didn’t betray Christ. How could a pope betray Christ and His church if led by the Holy Spirit and infallible?
 
You might ponder a reverse question to the one you ask. How, with so much sinning by some of its priests and bishops and popes, has the Church held together for 2000 years? Why hasn’t it disintegrated into thousands of sects the way Protestantism has in only 500 years?
Good point!
 
Peter didn’t betray Christ. How could a pope betray Christ and His church if led by the Holy Spirit and infallible?
Yes, Peter did betray Christ. He denied even knowing him. That’s not betrayal on the level of Judas Iscariot, but it’s still betrayal (and for which Peter did public penance administered by the resurrected Jesus).

To answer your question above, because popes are human and can still sin. You seem to have confused being infallible with being sinless. The two are not the same thing.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
and for which Peter did public penance administered by the resurrected Jesus

You seem to have confused being infallible with being sinless. The two are not the same thing.

– Mark L. Chance.
What was Peter’s penance?

What is the difference between infallible and sinless?
 
Unfaithful members do not nullify the faithfulness of God and the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: “That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged.” Rom 3:3-4

If we are unfaithful he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net thrown into the sea, which collects fish of every kind. When it is full they haul it ashore and sit down to put what is good into buckets. What is bad they throw away. Thus it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from the righteous Mt 13:47-49
 
Is it true that Pope Benedict IX held wild bi-sexual orgies? I am not trying to inflame anyone, but I did read that.
Could you provide the source, please?
We do know that the popes of the past have abused indulgences as a way to steal money from widows and line their own pockets.
No, we don’t “know” that. This is a false assertion. If you think otherwise, provide a source, please.
We also know that more recently many priests have been accused and convicted of molesting children. Because of these, how can we still trust that the Holy Spirit is leading the RCC?
Because the Word of God shows us that Christ’s promise is forever…as my paper below will show.

THE IMPACT OF SIN ON CHURCH AUTHORITY

If a Church leader is guilty of gross immorality, does his sin invalidate his position or authority?

Many, if not most, Protestants would say that it does, and they often use this line of reasoning to justify their denial of the authority of the Catholic Church. They cite historical events such as the Crusades, the Inquisition or reign of the Borgia Popes as evidence that the Church has lost its claim to moral and spiritual authority.

Such a response, however, is unbiblical. For example, Scripture states that Jesus knew “from the beginning” who would betray him – namely Judas, whom Jesus calls a “devil” (cf. John 6:64–71). This fact is significant, since Judas was selected as an apostle even though Jesus knew that he was corrupt.

Another example would be found in Jesus’ teaching on “Moses’ seat” found in the opening verses of Matthew 23: “Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ‘The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.’” (Matthew 23:1-3)

“Moses’ seat” is a phrase that referred to a position of legitimate teaching authority held by the teachers of the law and the Pharisees. Later, Jesus condemned these men as “hypocrites,” “blind guides,” “blind fools,” “serpents,” and a “brood of vipers.” But in the passage above, Jesus specifically instructed the crowds and his disciples to obey these leaders – despite their corruption – because of the authority of their position. That is sobering stuff.

If it were true that immorality invalidated a religious leader’s authority, then why did Jesus command his followers to “obey and do everything” the scribes and Pharisees tell them? Jesus merely admonished his followers not to follow their hypocritical example. There is not even the slightest hint that their positions had been forfeited or abrogated because of their hypocrisy or immorality. If anything, the reverse is true because Jesus validated these leaders’ office by telling people to obey them. From this, we see that sin and corruption found in the individual office holders has no impact whatsoever on the authority of the office itself.

In the Parable of the Weeds found in Matthew 13, Jesus tells His disciples to anticipate corruption within the Church. He said:

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. "The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ (Matthew 13:24-30)

Notice it is not the world at large that is being described but rather the “kingdom of heaven” or Church that is portrayed as the field containing both wheat and weeds. Jesus does not indicate that weeds (sinners) should be uprooted from the field (Church) until the separation done at the time of the final harvest.

The Church is not a paradise for saints who are already perfected but a hospital for the spiritually sick who are being healed.

Jesus clearly taught that sins of individual Church leaders do not invalidate the authority of the positions those leaders hold. These sins, whether real or imagined, do not undermine the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church and do not provide an excuse for those who refuse to acknowledge and obey her. The authority given by God to the Church and the office of the Papacy is the same today as it was in the days of Peter, Linus, Anacletus and Clement because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
 
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