Pope Benedict XVI and voting pro-life

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If more people took that position – do first things first, and then clean up lesser problems afterward, we’d be a lot farther ahead.
But too many are either not doing first things first or settling upon doingnothing about the lesser things. I would not only make every effort to end abortion, but I would also seek to end the death penalty, use more diplomacy instead of going to war, etc. This is what this country needs.
 
As for “stupid wars” where men “die unnecessarily” I point out that the men doing the actual fighting have a different opinion – but their mere experience, of course, doesn’t trump other people’s imagination.:rolleyes:
You flew over there and asked them yourself, did you?

Oh, wait. Sorry, Rush and FoxNoise told you so, so it must be true :rolleyes:
 
As a simple guy, I keep thinking that if all Catholics voted against all pro-abortion candidates in one election cycle…just once…it would free the Democrat party from its alliance with the abortion lobby. The party would never risk a disaster like that again, and would scurry to find some prolife candidates, no matter what the abortion lobby wanted. Money doesn’t help if you are going to lose anyway. And it would be a stern warning to the Republican party not to flirt with a pro-abortion stance in the future.

Then Catholics who would like to be Democrats for other reasons could feel free to support candidates, and wouldn’t have to agonize or rationalize voting for abortion supporters either.
Are there enough Catholics do actually accomplish this? What percentage of the population to we represent?

I’d love for there to be a real choice when it comes to elections. I just fear that if we elect another round of the kind of Republicans we’ve had in power over the past almost 20 years, we’d be about where the Roman Empire was in the late 400’s by the time they’re done. No country, no laws to protect anyone, including the unborn.
 
Are there enough Catholics do actually accomplish this? What percentage of the population to we represent?
Yes, there are. We make up about 20% of the population.

Assuming we are currently split 50-50 politically, a switch of Catholic voters could result in reversing a 60% majority – and most elections are won with slimmer majorities.
 
Are there enough Catholics do actually accomplish this? What percentage of the population to we represent?
In 2005, Catholics represented 22% of the U.S. population. But we are spread unevenly (with several states over 40% Catholic), so perhaps our influence would be regional rather than national.

On the other hand, only 36% of U.S. Catholic adults say they attend Mass at least once per week so getting all Catholics on board this voting plan might be difficult.
cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm
 
And I didn’t say vote for a worse candidate. But we cannot settle on just an antiabortion candidate. We must seek to form a prolife candidate across the board. Ending abortion is just the beginning. Then we must end the death penalty and stupid wars where our men are dying unnecessarily. Only then will we be prolife.
But you see, Jim, asking the political system to be truly prolife in every way and all at once, and including those ways upon which Catholics may, in good conscience, differ, is asking too much of it. Further, asking it to do so inevitably ends in failure, which is the very thing the pro abortion people depend on. You can see it on here all the time. So, abortion gets mixed with issues like the war in Iraq; people vote in every direction and the abortionists win.

Suppose, in 2008 (and I know I’m dreaming) every Catholic voter based his/her vote solely on curtailing abortion on demand. Yes, that would leave other issues out, and one would be trusting to luck when it came to, e.g., the next non-negotiable issue.

But politicians would absolutely take notice, and likely shy away from related issues such as euthanasia and fetal stem cell research. Supposing then, in the next congressional elections, Catholics voted only in favor of those who supported the next important issue on the list, and so on.

It wouldn’t take long for politicians to figure out that they absolutely had to pay attention to the whole panoply of issues important to Catholics.

Now, when it comes then to those issues on which Catholics may, in good conscience disagree; e.g., the war in Iraq, free trade, etc., there would not be a clear direction. Some things about which you or I might disagree might go your way or mine. But at least some very important things would have been accomplished. And, I suspect, it would allow Catholics, ourselves, to focus more clearly on those other issues, and perhaps come to better understandings about them.

The problem right now, Jim, is that Catholic principles have essentially no effect at all on the political process because Catholics are divided. Politicians of all stripes actually have an interest in keeping Catholics divided and powerless, precisely because most of them don’t really support Catholic principles. And they get away with it precisely because Catholics won’t unite on one issue at a time.

So, if I vote for a pro-abortion candidate because I oppose the war in Iraq or because I favor the Fair Tax, I have played into the hands of politicians who know full well that they have canceled out the vote of another voter who voted against the pro-abortion candidate despite his opposition to the war or support of the Fair Tax.

And I’m going to go a bit further with that. Whose fault is it that abortion on demand is still the law of the land? It’s ours, Jim. Catholics could end it in one election, but we don’t. And we don’t because we won’t. We won’t because we’re too short-sighted, too stubborn, and because the moral leadership in the Church in this country is weak. It’s a problem that feeds on itself. Moral leadership is weak because of all the dissent among Catholics. Catholics vote against absolute Church positions because moral authority is blurred and cowardly churchmen allow the confusion to continue and sometimes even add to it. But at the core, Jim, the fault is ours; the people in the pews. It’s a terrible thing to say in a way, but Catholics in the U.S. are, alone, responsible for abortion on demand, because Catholics in the U.S., alone, could end it, and won’t.

I support the war in Iraq, Jim. I believe we might just avert a lot of suffering that would be caused worldwide if the Middle East is dominated by some of the most rotten dictators the world has ever known. To me, it’s not just about driving SUVs. It’s about financing terrorists who can blow up schools and subways using the resources oil will give them. It’s about the family in Kenya that gets a deadly or debilitating parasitic disease because they can no longer afford kerosene for an inexpensive cooker. You oppose the war, for all of your reasons, and I understand that.

But, despite the way I feel about Iraq, if an anti-war presidential candidate who is truly prolife opposes a pro-war candidate who is an abortion supporter, I have to vote against the pro-war candidate I would otherwise favor. I have to.

(continued)
 
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Right now, then, it’s easier for me to vote prolife than it is for you. That’s a fact. But there are also libertarians out there on the “conservative” end of the spectrum, who support abortion every bit as much as the Democrat presidential candidates do, and their power is growing. The time will come when to vote for a Republican candidate is to vote for abortion, just as voting for a Democrat candidate right now is to vote for abortion. And that time isn’t far away. As Catholics, the only way we have of avoiding that Hobson’s choice is to vote prolife in unison, one time, while we still can.
 
But you see, Jim, asking the political system to be truly prolife in every way and all at once, and including those ways upon which Catholics may, in good conscience, differ, is asking too much of it.
“Perfect” is the enemy of “Good.”

We will never have perfect candidates, we must work with the materials we have. That means we must often vote for the lesser evil.
 
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Right now, then, it’s easier for me to vote prolife than it is for you. That’s a fact. But there are also libertarians out there on the “conservative” end of the spectrum, who support abortion every bit as much as the Democrat presidential candidates do, and their power is growing. The time will come when to vote for a Republican candidate is to vote for abortion, just as voting for a Democrat candidate right now is to vote for abortion. And that time isn’t far away. As Catholics, the only way we have of avoiding that Hobson’s choice is to vote prolife in unison, one time, while we still can.
And I will always opt for the prolife candidate, but again prolife means more than being antiabortion. Doesn’t anyone grasp this? I would never vote prochoice but we must prime the prolife pump to include all of the aspects of prolife not just abortion. Enough of this hogwash of two parties limiting our choice. Let’s get multiple parties. Then prolifers might have a choice of who to vote for and prochoicers might give up their prochoice interests in favor of getting us out of crazy wars. Not every war is justifiable as some here would have us believe.
 
You flew over there and asked them yourself, did you?

Oh, wait. Sorry, Rush and FoxNoise told you so, so it must be true :rolleyes:
No, as a matter of fact, I still do a bit of contract work on the side that takes me to strange places.
 
And I will always opt for the prolife candidate, but again prolife means more than being antiabortion. Doesn’t anyone grasp this? I would never vote prochoice but we must prime the prolife pump to include all of the aspects of prolife not just abortion. Enough of this hogwash of two parties limiting our choice. Let’s get multiple parties. Then prolifers might have a choice of who to vote for and prochoicers might give up their prochoice interests in favor of getting us out of crazy wars. Not every war is justifiable as some here would have us believe.
The American system, with its Separation of Powers, makes it almost impossible to have more than two parties – the last time a viable third party emerged, it killed off one of the two major parties and the result was a Civil War.
 
I for one cannot vote for any pro-abortion candidate. I would think that endorsing murder ought to be quite prevalent on our list of most important issues.
 
I for one cannot vote for any pro-abortion candidate. I would think that endorsing murder ought to be quite prevalent on our list of most important issues.
In addition, it is one of those “keystone issues” – if we can dramatically reduce abortion, we will solve or alleviate a lot of other problems.

It’s kind of like education – if we could solve the education issue, and give every American child a first-class, world-quality education, the impact on other problems – from poverty to crime to drug abuse would be astounding.
 
I for one cannot vote for any pro-abortion candidate. I would think that endorsing murder ought to be quite prevalent on our list of most important issues.
Then vote for me. I’ll make every effort to stop abortion and the death penalty and an end to the war so noone dies.
 
In addition, it is one of those “keystone issues” – if we can dramatically reduce abortion, we will solve or alleviate a lot of other problems.

It’s kind of like education – if we could solve the education issue, and give every American child a first-class, world-quality education, the impact on other problems – from poverty to crime to drug abuse would be astounding.
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Indeed.
 
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