Pope Benedict XVI - "faith alone is true"!

[EphelDuath]

Incorrect. Luther’s NT translation of 1522 contained all the NT books. And his completed Bible, 1534, contained all 73 books that we typically in the western Bible.

He moved books he did not consider canonical (that is, did not agree with his theology) into the Apocrypha section of the Luther Bible. He did indeed call the Epistle of St. James the “epistle of straw,” and also rejected the Book of Revelation.

He also added words to his translation that weren’t even in any recorded manuscripts, such as when he added the word “alone” to Romans 3:28 so that it read “thus, we hold, then, that man is justified without the works of the law to do, [alone] through faith.”

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Put these two together and I think one has the understanding of the JDDJ, and frankly, the Pope’s comment. We are indeed justified by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. But faith cannot ever be alone, as a true, living, active faith must also have and show love for our fellow man. If Christ prepares us for good works and we choose not to respond, can we really say our faith is a living, and not a dead faith?

Jon

:clapping:

By Jon I think he’s got it! Faith alone is only correct if by faith you mean a faith that works in love. Not a mere intellectual acceptance (“I believe”) but an active participating faith that is alive because it is (you are) truly in Christ. So many times we argue past each other, but when it can be distilled as the great theologians can … there is hope for unity on this point.

Peace,
Robert

 

[JonNC]

:clapping:

By Jon I think he’s got it! Faith alone is only correct if by faith you mean a faith that works in love. Not a mere intellectual acceptance (“I believe”) but an active participating faith that is alive because it is (you are) truly in Christ. So many times we argue past each other, but when it can be distilled as the great theologians can … there is hope for unity on this point.

Peace,
Robert

And peace also with you, Robert.
Ahhh, thank you very much. But that’s what Lutherans have always believed. See my sig.

Jon

EDIT: I think Catholics, too.

 

[2nd_Adam]

One can say Lutheran theological distinctives do not rise and fall with Luther. What Protestants of different origins say or do would, of course, not rise and fall with Luther, as they were never Lutheran.

Jon

That’s a very Christ-like and humble post, coming from a Lutheran Christian. Perfect theology is not required for eternal life. What is required is union with the One who is perfect.

 

[Doxiemom]

So, in other words:

It is by faith alone that we are saved
but
a faith without good works is a dead faith

That is what Benedict has said, and it is the truth.

Which a whole lot of protestants( bless their hearts for saying it loudly)( and catholics) knew all along.

Thank you , pope benedict.

 

[EphelDuath]

It is by faith alone that we are saved

No. It is by the grace of God that we are saved, which leads us to faith and good works. We are not saved by faith alone.

 

[2nd_Adam]

So, in other words:

It is by faith alone that we are saved
but
a faith without good works is a dead faith

That is what Benedict has said, and it is the truth.

Which a whole lot of protestants( bless their hearts for saying it loudly)( and catholics) knew all along.

Thank you , pope benedict.

Thank you Pope Benedict too! It makes me almost want to be Catholic.

 

[2nd_Adam]

No. It is by the grace of God that we are saved, which leads us to faith and good works. We are not saved by faith alone.

The words “faith alone” is just a shortcut for saying that we are saved by grace alone throught the instrument of faith, by the merit of Christ alone… to the glory of God alone.

 

[EphelDuath]

The words “faith alone” is just a shortcut for saying that we are saved by grace alone throught the instrument of faith, by the merit of Christ alone… to the glory of God alone.

If this were the case, there would have been no Protestant Reformation, for Luther would’ve been in exact accordance with the Church.

 

[2nd_Adam]

If this were the case, there would have been no Protestant Reformation, for Luther would’ve been in exact accordance with the Church.

God is completely sovereign, and through divine providence we have the Protestant Reformation. What part of the 5 solas of the Protestant Refomation do you disagree with?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas

 

[EphelDuath]

God is completely sovereign, and through divine providence we have the Protestant Reformation. What part of the 5 solas of the Protestant Refomation do you disagree with?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas

Just because it happened, does not mean it was a good thing. “God wills it” was the justification of many acts of wickedness in history, including the splitting of the United Monarchy of Israel.

I utterly reject Sola scriptura, because it dnies sacred traditions (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:15) and the authority of the Church (cf. Matthew 16:18-19 & 1 Timothy 3:15).

I reject Sola fide, because while what you think “faith alone” means is in conformance with the apostles and the Church, it is not what the heads of the Protestant Reformation intended it to mean.

Solus Christus, depending on what its intended meaning is, can be in accordance with Christianity. Christ is indeed the only mediator between God and man, but he shares this mediation with his subjects in the Kingdom of Heaven; which is why saintly intercessions in the form of subordinate mediation (cf. Revelation 5:8, Zechariah 1:12-13) can “change the mind of God” (so to speak, not literally). While the Anglican Church continued to hold onto the idea of apostolic succession and the clergy, figures like John Calvin thought that there was no ordained priesthood, which is a heresy.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Just because it happened, does not mean it was a good thing. “God wills it” was the justification of many acts of wickedness in history, including the splitting of the United Monarchy of Israel.

I utterly reject Sola scriptura, because it dnies sacred traditions (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:15) and the authority of the Church (cf. Matthew 16:18-19 & 1 Timothy 3:15).

I reject Sola fide, because while what you think “faith alone” means is in conformance with the apostles and the Church, it is not what the heads of the Protestant Reformation intended it to mean.

Solus Christus, depending on what its intended meaning is, can be in accordance with Christianity. Christ is indeed the only mediator between God and man, but he shares this mediation with his subjects in the Kingdom of Heaven; which is why saintly intercessions in the form of subordinate mediation (cf. Revelation 5:8, Zechariah 1:12-13) can “change the mind of God” (so to speak, not literally). While the Anglican Church continued to hold onto the idea of apostolic succession and the clergy, figures like John Calvin thought that there was no ordained priesthood, which is a heresy.

I still haven’t got a response to my inquiry about what Pope Benedict meant by faith alone in comparison to what the Reformers meant by faith alone. I personally think they meant pretty much the same thing which is the basis of our justification according to half of the NT books (Pauline Epistles).

 

[EphelDuath]

I still haven’t got a response to my inquiry about what Pope Benedict meant by faith alone in comparison to what the Reformers meant by faith alone. I personally think they meant pretty much the same thing which is the basis of our justification according to half of the NT books (Pauline Epistles).

The Reformers rejected that works had any bearing on one’s salvation. This is why Martin Luther believed the Epistle of James to be uninspired.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Reformers rejected that works had any bearing on one’s salvation. This is why Martin Luther believed the Epistle of James to be uninspired.

Okay, I’m completely confused now. Are you saying that good works are evidence of true saving faith? Or, are you saying that personal works are needed to merit salvation? Or, do you mean something else? Again, click on the link on justification based on Paul taught by Pope Benedict (see my signature). I’m not sure Pope Benedict is even acknowledging the Apostle James in light of the teaching of justification by Paul.

 

[EphelDuath]

Okay, I’m completely confused now. Are you saying that good works are evidence of true saving faith? Or, are you saying that personal works are needed to merit salvation? Or, do you mean something else? Again, click on the link on justification based on Paul taught by Pope Benedict (see my signature). I’m not sure Pope Benedict is even acknowledging the Apostle James in light of the teaching of justification by Paul.

James 2:24 reads, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” The Catholic Church teaches that man is saved solely by the grace of God, through works and persevering faith, in accordance with St. Paul and St. James. This is why the doctrine of “Sola fide” is false. This is also what the Pope is speaking of, if you would read his statement about “faith alone” in the context of the text.

Martin Luther, on the other hand, taught that one’s actions has no bearing on his salvation, hence why he rejected the Epistle of James as being opposed to the Holy Spirit.

 

[2nd_Adam]

James 2:24 reads, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” The Catholic Church teaches that man is saved solely by the grace of God, through works and persevering faith, in accordance with St. Paul and St. James. This is why the doctrine of “Sola fide” is false. This is also what the Pope is speaking of, if you would read his statement about “faith alone” in the context of the text.

Martin Luther, on the other hand, taught that one’s actions has no bearing on his salvation, hence why he rejected the Epistle of James as being opposed to the Holy Spirit.

Please quote from the work of Pope Benedict on his teaching on justification according to Paul where he references the Apostle James (James chapter 2). I think many Catholics try to read into the work of Pope Benedict as if the word “if” changes faith alone.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The words “faith alone” is just a shortcut for saying that we are saved by grace alone throught the instrument of faith, by the merit of Christ alone… to the glory of God alone.

Yes, but this would mean that no human action is necessary for salvation.

Also, it means that God alone forces the wills of those he chooses to be conformed to his.

This means that God alone chooses some men for hell for following the natures they were given.

I don’t buy it.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Please quote from the work of Pope Benedict on his teaching on justification according to Paul where he references the Apostle James (James chapter 2). I think many Catholics try to read into the work of Pope Benedict as if the word “if” changes faith alone.

OF course it changes the meaning.

Faith alone IF your faith is a living faith that is evident by action.

 

[EphelDuath]

Please quote from the work of Pope Benedict on his teaching on justification according to Paul where he references the Apostle James (James chapter 2). I think many Catholics try to read into the work of Pope Benedict as if the word “if” changes faith alone.

The very next phrase of the quote you keep taking out of context reads, “‘faith alone’ is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14).”

 

[2nd_Adam]

The very next phrase of the quote you keep taking out of context reads, “‘faith alone’ is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14).”

That’s great teaching by Pope Benedict. I’m sure all staunch Protestants can agree with this. So, where’s the Apostle James idea in this portion of the Pope’s teaching. Of course a faith that is dead cannot save a sinner, because it is not a faith granted to the sinner from God. What kind of saving faith would be opposed to faith in charity and in love? If a type of faith is oppsed to charity and love, it is a demonic faith which does not come from God (james 2 - dead faith not from God).

Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes 1 John