Pope Benedict XVI - "faith alone is true"!

[2nd_Adam]

That is an imcomplete and misleading heading.

Here’s what he said:

Pope Benedict spoke on 2008-11-19 at a General Audience
“For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, **if **it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. **Fa****ith is **looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love.”

No… this is what he said:

BENEDICT XVI

GENERAL AUDIENCE

St. Peter’s Square
Wednesday, 19 November 2008

Saint Paul (13):

The Doctrine of Justification: from Works to Faith.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

**On the journey we are making under St Paul’s guidance, let us now reflect on a topic at the centre of the controversies of the century of the Reformation: the question of justification. How does man become just in God’s eyes? **When Paul met the Risen One on the road to Damascus he was an accomplished man; irreproachable according to the justice deriving from the Law (cf. Phil 3: 6), Paul surpassed many of his contemporaries in the observance of the Mosaic Law and zealously upheld the traditions of his fathers (cf. Gal 1: 14). The illumination of Damascus radically changed his life; he began to consider all merits acquired in an impeccable religious career as “refuse”, in comparison with the sublimity of knowing Jesus Christ (cf. Phil 3: 8). The Letter to the Philippians offers us a moving testimony of Paul’s transition from a justice founded on the Law and acquired by his observance of the required actions, to a justice based on faith in Christ. He had understood that what until then had seemed to him to be a gain, before God was, in fact, a loss; and thus he had decided to stake his whole existence on Jesus Christ (cf. Phil 3: 7). The treasure hidden in the field and the precious pearl for whose purchase all was to be invested were no longer in function of the Law, but Jesus Christ, his Lord.

The relationship between Paul and the Risen One became so deep as to induce him to maintain that Christ was no longer solely his life but also his very living, to the point that to be able to reach him death became a gain (cf. Phil 1: 21). This is not to say he despised life, but that he realized that for him at this point there was no other purpose in life and thus he had no other desire than to reach Christ as in an athletics competition to remain with him for ever. The Risen Christ had become the beginning and the end of his existence, the cause and the goal of his race. It was only his concern for the development in faith of those he had evangelized and his anxiety for all of the Churches he founded (cf. 2 Cor 11: 28) that induced him to slow down in his race towards his one Lord, to wait for his disciples so they might run with him towards the goal. Although from a perspective of moral integrity he had nothing to reproach himself in his former observance of the Law, once Christ had reached him he preferred not to make judgments on himself (cf. 1 Cor 4: 3-4). Instead he limited himself to resolving to press on, to make his own the One who had made him his own (cf. Phil 3: 12).

It is precisely because of this personal experience of relationship with Jesus Christ that Paul henceforth places at the centre of his Gospel an irreducible opposition between the two alternative paths to justice: one built on the works of the Law, the other founded on the grace of faith in Christ. The alternative between justice by means of works of the Law and that by faith in Christ thus became one of the dominant themes that run through his Letters: “We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners, yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law; because by works of the law no one will be justified” (Gal 2: 15-16). And to the Christians of Rome he reasserts that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rm 3: 23-24). And he adds “we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law” (ibid., v. 28). At this point Luther translated: “justified by faith alone”. I shall return to this point at the end of the Catechesis. First, we must explain what is this “Law” from which we are freed and what are those “works of the Law” that do not justify. The opinion that was to recur systematically in history already existed in the community at Corinth. This opinion consisted in thinking that it was a question of moral law and that the Christian freedom thus consisted in the liberation from ethics. Thus in Corinth the term “πάντα μοι έξεστιν” (I can do what I like) was widespread. It is obvious that this interpretation is wrong: Christian freedom is not libertinism; the liberation of which St Paul spoke is not liberation from good works. (part 1)

 

[2nd_Adam]

So what does the Law from which we are liberated and which does not save mean? For St Paul, as for all his contemporaries, the word “Law” meant the Torah in its totality, that is, the five books of Moses. The Torah, in the Pharisaic interpretation, that which Paul had studied and made his own, was a complex set of conduct codes that ranged from the ethical nucleus to observances of rites and worship and that essentially determined the identity of the just person. In particular, these included circumcision, observances concerning pure food and ritual purity in general, the rules regarding the observance of the Sabbath, etc. codes of conduct that also appear frequently in the debates between Jesus and his contemporaries. All of these observances that express a social, cultural and religious identity had become uniquely important in the time of Hellenistic culture, starting from the third century B.C. This culture which had become the universal culture of that time and was a seemingly rational culture; a polytheistic culture, seemingly tolerant constituted a strong pressure for cultural uniformity and thus threatened the identity of Israel, which was politically constrained to enter into this common identity of the Hellenistic culture. This resulted in the loss of its own identity, hence also the loss of the precious heritage of the faith of the Fathers, of the faith in the one God and in the promises of God.

Against this cultural pressure, which not only threatened the Israelite identity but also the faith in the one God and in his promises, it was necessary to create a wall of distinction, a shield of defence to protect the precious heritage of the faith; this wall consisted precisely in the Judaic observances and prescriptions. Paul, who had learned these observances in their role of defending God’s gift, of the inheritance of faith in one God alone, saw this identity threatened by the freedom of the Christians this is why he persecuted them. **At the moment of his encounter with the Risen One he understood that with Christ’s Resurrection the situation had changed radically. With Christ, the God of Israel, the one true God, became the God of all peoples. The wall as he says in his Letter to the Ephesians between Israel and the Gentiles, was no longer necessary: it is Christ who protects us from polytheism and all of its deviations; it is Christ who unites us with and in the one God; it is Christ who guarantees our true identity within the diversity of cultures. The wall is no longer necessary; our common identity within the diversity of cultures is Christ, and it is he who makes us just. Being just simply means being ****with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love **(cf. Gal 5: 14).

Paul knows that in the twofold love of God and neighbour the whole of the Law is present and carried out. Thus in communion with Christ, in a faith that creates charity, the entire Law is fulfilled. We become just by entering into communion with Christ who is Love. We shall see the same thing in the Gospel next Sunday, the Solemnity of Christ the King. It is the Gospel of the judge whose sole criterion is love. What he asks is only this: Did you visit me when I was sick? When I was in prison? Did you give me food to eat when I was hungry, did you clothe me when I was naked? And thus justice is decided in charity. Thus, at the end of this Gospel we can almost say: love alone, charity alone. But there is no contradiction between this Gospel and St Paul. It is the same vision, according to which communion with Christ, faith in Christ, creates charity. And charity is the fulfilment of communion with Christ. Thus, we are just by being united with him and in no other way.

At the end, we can only pray the Lord that he help us to believe; really believe. Believing thus becomes life, unity with Christ, the transformation of our life. And thus, transformed by his love, by the love of God and neighbour, we can truly be just in God’s eyes. (part 2)

---

 

[2nd_Adam]

Here’s the significance of the doctrine of justification from the Joint Declaration between the Catholic Church and Lutheran Church. If you understand how the words “faith alone” has divided the Protestant Church and Catholic Church… it is quite significant for the Pope to state that Luther was right in the statement of faith alone (within his context of what he said). Even though we may not agree in what faith alone means, the Pope acknowledged Luther by saying faith alone is true with great impact for both Protestants and Catholics alike. Both the Protestant and Catholic communites are simply Christian communities which make up the body of Christ together with the Orthodox churches, Anglican churches, and others who are united to Christ.

JOINT DECLARATION
ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church

Preamble

1.The doctrine of justification was of central importance for the Lutheran Reformation of the sixteenth century. It was held to be the “first and chief article”[1] and at the same time the “ruler and judge over all other Christian doctrines.”[2] The doctrine of justification was particularly asserted and defended in its Reformation shape and special valuation over against the Roman Catholic Church and theology of that time, which in turn asserted and defended a doctrine of justification of a different character. From the Reformation perspective, justification was the crux of all the disputes. Doctrinal condemnations were put forward both in the Lutheran Confessions[3] and by the Roman Catholic Church’s Council of Trent. These condemnations are still valid today and thus have a church-dividing effect.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

No… this is what he said:

I know.

You misrepresent it in your heading, as I pointed out and I’m sure you recognize.

IF!! If is the key word you left out of the quote.

For an example, this quote directly contradicts Pope Benedict’s point:

Be a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin shall not drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder thousands and thousands of times a day (Luther, M. Letter of August 1, 1521 as quoted in Stoddard, p.93).

 

[geometer]

Paul knows that in the twofold love of God and neighbour the whole of the Law is present and carried out.

Jesus knows that in the twofold love of God and neighbour the whole of the miracle is present and carried out.

The greatest among you is servant to all…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I don’t think Pope Benedict XVI is speaking of “faith alone” (sola fide) in the context of salvation. No, he is referring to the following:

1.) Turning to Christ in times of need (“Faith is looking at Christ”);
2.) Giving your life over to Christ (“entrusting oneself to Christ”); and
3.) Living as Christ did and taught (“being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life”)

In other words, affirming what Christ said in the Gospel of John:

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” - John 14:6

IOW he is speaking “of “faith alone” (sola fide) in the context of salvation.” Thank you.​

Now all he has to do is explain why his predecessors burned thousands of Christians for saying what he has said. (Don’t worry, no apology expected - if Rome is not going to apologise to its own most recent victims who are of its own faith, God Himself could not make it apologise to Lutherans today or for burning Lutherans of the past).

 

[CatholicFireman]

When in doubt, read James 2:14-24:

14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Pax†

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

2nd Adam;5721498:

No… this is what he said:

I know.

You misrepresent it in your heading, as I pointed out and I’m sure you recognize.

IF!! If is the key word you left out of the quote.

For an example, this quote directly contradicts Pope Benedict’s point:

Be a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin shall not drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder thousands and thousands of times a day (Luther, M. Letter of August 1, 1521 as quoted in Stoddard, p.93).## You’ve had that explained to you, as the hyperbole it is. Failure to recognise hyperbole makes your own Saints into liars. But anything will do, however unjust or frivolous, if Luther is the target

 

[2nd_Adam]

I would appreciate a Catholic explaination of the Pope’s teaching on the doctrine of justification in regards to faith alone. When I read it, I understand it in the same way that I believe… justification by faith alone as understood by a Reformed Christian. And do you guys consider this teaching to be from the chair, or is the Pope speaking infallible in what he taught? We know the Pope is addressing Paul’s use of the word justification. He is not addressing the Apostle James and his use of the word justification. So, let’s stay disciplined and stay within the Thread Topic (doctrine of justification according to the Pauline Epistles). You guys preach the Magesterium and Apostolic Succession; therefore, this is a very important thread for all of us.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

When in doubt, read James 2:14-24:

14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Pax†

True - but not an objection against faith alone. It does not even attempt to come to grips with what Paul says. Until Papalists appreciate that rather basic point, their endless advertising of that passage is completely unconvincing.​

For something intelligent, with knowledge of the Bible - Calvin on Romans:

• ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.html

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I would appreciate a Catholic explaination of the Pope’s teaching on the doctrine of justification in regards to faith alone. When I read it, I understand it in the same way that I believe… justification by faith alone as understood by a Reformed Christian. And do you guys consider this teaching to be from the chair, or is the Pope speaking infallible in what he taught? We know the Pope is addressing Paul’s use of the word justification. He is not addressing the Apostle James and his use of the word justification. So, let’s stay disciplined and stay within the Thread Topic (doctrine of justification according to the Pauline Epistles). You guys preach the Magesterium and Apostolic Succession; therefore, this is a very important thread for all of us.

It is not that complicated.

Read what comes after the word IF.

It appears that you are intentionally distorting the message of Pope Benedict.

 

[2nd_Adam]

When in doubt, read James 2:14-24:

14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Pax†

The Pope was not teaching on the Apostle James. The Pope was teaching on the subject of justification according to the Apostle Paul. He made an intentional statement about agreeing on justification by faith alone as believed by Martin Luther. Let’s not derail this thread, because the Pope has spoken, and all Catholics need to learn what he taught. Do you submit to the Magesterium (the Pope and the bishops in communion with him)?

 

[CatholicFireman]

Ok, I have a better idea. Click on “home”. There you will see “ask an apologist” there you can pose your question(s) to Catholic Answers staffers. There I’m sure you will find the answer you seek. And you can “stick to the thread”.

p.s. I suggest you be less biting and more charitable, friend.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

## You’ve had that explained to you, as the hyperbole it is. Failure to recognise hyperbole makes your own Saints into liars. But anything will do, however unjust or frivolous, if Luther is the target

It is not hyperbole, it is a clear and easily defined distinction. You can’t win this argument.

Luther claims our actions have no impact on the validity of our faith.

Pope Benedict clearly defines what true faith entails, and our actions are part of true faith.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Ok, I have a better idea. Click on “home”. There you will see “ask an apologist” there you can pose your question(s) to Catholic Answers staffers. There I’m sure you will find the answer you seek. And you can “stick to the thread”.

p.s. I suggest you be less biting and more charitable, friend.

I’m sorry if you find my posting uncharitable. Please forgive me. But, let’s not derail this thread because this is the topic which caused the Protestant Reformation. I feel Catholics tend to avoid the Epistles of Paul because most Catholics don’t understand the doctrine of justification. I don’t need to ask and apologist since we have the teaching on justification by Pope Benedict XVI in front of us. The Pope’s teaching is superior to all the apologists combined on this site. If Catholics adhere to Apostolic Succession, then I think we reached the top of Catholic hierarchy.

 

[CatholicFireman]

Me thinks you don’t want an answer but rather an arguement or else you would have taken my advice.
If you want the Truth ask the experts on here. I, on the other hand, am no expert so I’ll leave it to you to figure it out. Good luck and good night.

 

[2nd_Adam]

It is not that complicated.

Read what comes after the word IF.

It appears that you are intentionally distorting the message of Pope Benedict.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. You need to understand the message of Pope Benedict in context of the entire work. His teaching does not hinge on the word if. What is your understanding of the doctrine of justification as taught by Apostle Paul? Does you position of the doctrine of justification according to Paul line up with Pope Benedict’s teaching?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I have to respectfully disagree with you. You need to understand the message of Pope Benedict in context of the entire work. His teaching does not hinge on the word if. What is your understanding of the doctrine of justification as taught by Apostle Paul? Does you position of the doctrine of justification according to Paul line up with Pope Benedict’s teaching?

Absolutely.

Yours doesn’t… yet!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Me thinks you don’t want an answer but rather an arguement or else you would have taken my advice.
If you want the Truth ask the experts on here. I, on the other hand, am no expert so I’ll leave it to you to figure it out. Good luck and good night.

I don’t want an argument, but I want all Catholics to receive what Pope Benedict taught in regards to justification according to the Epistles of Paul. Do you have any idea how important that teaching is in regards to Christian unity?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Absolutely.

Yours doesn’t… yet!

Please post your understanding of the doctrine of justification according to the Epistles of Paul. Then compare your belief with Pope Benedict XVI teaching on the subject. His teaching is quite amazing.