Pope Benedict XVI & Liturgical Abuse?

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Pariah_Pirana

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This is a GREAT deay in the Catholic Church!

Will the choice of Pope Benedict XVI have a strong impact on liturgical abuse and experimentation here in the USA?
 
I certainly hope so. Part of me is having dreams of him coming out on Sunday at his installation Mass and after the installation (or coronation… have we heard if he has made a choice on that yet?) saying, “Now, my priests, head over to your Churches, and push your altars back against the wall, and if you have any questions, go read my earlier statements on the topic.”

As I said to someone earlier today, I can’t say for sure about anything else, but I know that they elected one of the two men who would have went out of their way to ensure that the Liturgy was celebrated properly.

Also, perhaps I am the only one who noticed, but did anyone else notice that he was wearing black beneath his simar and mozetta? Just his shirt, or a sign of things to come?

Rob+
 
Pariah Pirana:
This is a GREAT deay in the Catholic Church!

Will the choice of Pope Benedict XVI have a strong impact on liturgical abuse and experimentation here in the USA?
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The Holy Spirit will lead him where WE need to be.
I suspect there are many American Catholics who take the absence of discussion on a subject to be an okay on it. In other words, I don’t people will get away with adding things to the liturgy which are not mentioned.
It is a great day indeed!!!
 
I wonder how much of his reputation is deserved and how much had to do with his very difficult job in the Curia. Only time will tell. I think his reputation as the Panzer Cardinal might even be beneficial in curbing some. Perception is 90% of reality. I know if I was a bishop who had played a little loose with the GIRM, I would be setting my own house in order immediately, lest I find myself no longer wanted by the new boss.
 
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FrRobSST:
I certainly hope so. Part of me is having dreams of him coming out on Sunday at his installation Mass and after the installation (or coronation… have we heard if he has made a choice on that yet?) saying, “Now, my priests, head over to your Churches, and push your altars back against the wall, and if you have any questions, go read my earlier statements on the topic.”

As I said to someone earlier today, I can’t say for sure about anything else, but I know that they elected one of the two men who would have went out of their way to ensure that the Liturgy was celebrated properly.

Also, perhaps I am the only one who noticed, but did anyone else notice that he was wearing black beneath his simar and mozetta? Just his shirt, or a sign of things to come?

Rob+
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Oh, I hope so. And I agree with Pnewton’s comment about perception. The first time we had a priest show up to Chant Mass in a cassock carrying a fiddleback and lace alb we were stunned. We just… knew what was coming. And it was great. May God grant many years to his Holiness Benedict XVI!
 
I think I may engage in a project for this year (in addition to the zillion other things I’m doing, e.g. full-time teacher, part-time grad student, heh)… and that is:

Develop a series of eloquently written, technically specific letters that can be used as a template to write to Bishops and the Vatican to report liturgical abuse that goes uncorrected after discussions with the pastor of the parish and/or the bishop of the diocese.
Here in the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston, I’ve already seen several improprieties in liturgy and practice that I would like resolved and I’ve only been a Catholic since Easter!!! I’ve seen holy water removed from fonts for the entirety of Lent (wrong practice!!), I’ve seen excessively utilized EMHC’s (who are also referred to with the incorrect term “Eucharistic Minister”), inconsistencies in practice within a congregation (e.g. with regards to sitting/standing postures), inconsistencies in the penetential rite in mass, etc. In fact, even my own confirmation may have had a flaw, in that my parish chose to confirm baptized non-Catholics (Candidates) on Palm Sunday rather than Easter Vigil – a practice which I’m not sure is appropriate.

Does anybody have a “catalog” of letters to use for this so I’m not duplicating work???

-Michael
 
Well, I think he’ll at least shut down “liturgical dancing.”👍

ewtn.com/pope/life/index.asp
Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.
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Pariah Pirana:
This is a GREAT deay in the Catholic Church!

Will the choice of Pope Benedict XVI have a strong impact on liturgical abuse and experimentation here in the USA?
Click to expand...
I’d like to see our masses be more like the Mass for a new pope.

I hope we at least get back Sanctus bells, and Latin for Gloria, Creed and Agnus Dei and a strictly enforced complete end to liturgical abuse as well as a mandated indult in every parish.
 
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Elzee:
What’s an ‘indult’? I’m learning so much from you all!
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The slang use of ‘indult’ in this context refers to the celebration of the Tridentine Mass per the text and rubrics of the 1962 Missale Romanum. It is called the ‘indult’ Mass because, by Papal Indult, it is permitted to use this text of the traditional Mass to celebrate the Sacred Mysteries in any parish or diocese within the Latin Rite - though, as I understand it, it requires the consent of the Diocesean bishop.

Rob+
 
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FrRobSST:
I certainly hope so. Part of me is having dreams of him coming out on Sunday at his installation Mass and after the installation (or coronation… have we heard if he has made a choice on that yet?) saying, “Now, my priests, head over to your Churches, and push your altars back against the wall, and if you have any questions, go read my earlier statements on the topic.”

As I said to someone earlier today, I can’t say for sure about anything else, but I know that they elected one of the two men who would have went out of their way to ensure that the Liturgy was celebrated properly.

Also, perhaps I am the only one who noticed, but did anyone else notice that he was wearing black beneath his simar and mozetta? Just his shirt, or a sign of things to come?

Rob+
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Just to be clear, the Catholic Church in no way prohibits the use of a free-standing altar (“altar” = “table” in Latin) on which to celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

His Beatitude Pariah Pirana, ABC
Primate of Momo’s Coffee Shop & Bakery
Fake Catholic Presbyter
Also Not in Communion with Rome (or Catholic for that Matter)%between%
 
Pariah Pirana:
Just to be clear, the Catholic Church in no way prohibits the use of a free-standing altar (“altar” = “table” in Latin) on which to celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
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I realize that. The Altar at St. Peter’s has always been freestanding, as have the altars in virtually every Basilica in history in the east and the west.

I was making an oversimplification, and for that I apologize.

Still, I am hopeful that eastward celebration will be a much more common occurance under the reign of H.H. P. Benedict XVI.

Rob+
 
Now, you two behave. :tsktsk:

This is indeed a great day for the Church. I’ve had a goofy smile on my face since about noon today. 😃

I hope our new Holy Father gives priests the option of celebrating Mass facing the same way as the people. I wouldn’t expect too many major changes. I’d just be happy if the current liturgical norms were strictly enforced.
 
Dr. Bombay:
I hope our new Holy Father gives priests the option of celebrating Mass facing the same way as the people. I wouldn’t expect too many major changes. I’d just be happy if the current liturgical norms were strictly enforced.
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As I understand the GIRM, isn’t it perfectly within the rights of an individual priest to choose to celebrate the Mass facing east, or does a diocesan ordinary have to approve such a move?

Rob+
 
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FrRobSST:
As I understand the GIRM, isn’t it perfectly within the rights of an individual priest to choose to celebrate the Mass facing east, or does a diocesan ordinary have to approve such a move?

Rob+
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Fr.Rob,

I think I remember reading that you are not a Catholic priest (not in union with Rome). I am just curious what church you belong to? Episcopal?
 
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FrRobSST:
As I understand the GIRM, isn’t it perfectly within the rights of an individual priest to choose to celebrate the Mass facing east, or does a diocesan ordinary have to approve such a move?

Rob+
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I’ve heard differing opinions. I assume it falls under the purview of the local bishop, and if he wants to prohibit it he can. But I’m not an expert.
 
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FrRobSST:
As I understand the GIRM, isn’t it perfectly within the rights of an individual priest to choose to celebrate the Mass facing east, or does a diocesan ordinary have to approve such a move?

Rob+
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Up to Mass celebrant
 
Do a search. In 1998 on the anniversary of the Papal document that granted the new indult Pope Benedict himself wrote a great speech.
In that speech he wrote about the priest facing away and the use of Latin.
 
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RSiscoe:
Fr.Rob,

I think I remember reading that you are not a Catholic priest (not in union with Rome). I am just curious what church you belong to? Episcopal?
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No, neither. Rob isn’t in communion with any form of of the Church as best I can tell.

-Michael
 
Pariah Pirana:
Up to Mass celebrant
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Has it then become so ingraned in the Priests of the Latin Rite that celebrating Mass facing the people is the only right way that most of them won’t take advantage of the chances to celebrate thusly?

I recall hearing a discussion at one point on the EWTN forums about why they didn’t show Mass from the Shrine in Hanceville, and the responder said that the Sisters wanted Mass celebrated ‘facing east’ and that the diocesan bishop refused to permit such a Mass to be shown on television.

I do sincerely hope that Pope Benedict changes that. It’s a shame when a matter like facing east results in the forbiddance of the celebration of Mass from the Shrine to be shared on EWTN.

Rob+
 
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