Pope Benedict XVI & Liturgical Abuse?

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SouthCoast:
No, neither. Rob isn’t in communion with any form of of the Church as best I can tell.

-Michael
There is already a topic on this matter in “Non-Catholic Religions” and I will be replying to all further inquries on the topic via private messages.

I am not here to try to convert you or anyone else. I want to enjoy fellowship with people who share a vast majority of my beliefs. It’s easier to do here than anywhere else, so if you want to know more about my ecclesial affiliation, please contact me offlist or check my profile.

Rob+
 
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FrRobSST:
There is already a topic on this matter in “Non-Catholic Religions” and I will be replying to all further inquries on the topic via private messages.

I am not here to try to convert you or anyone else. I want to enjoy fellowship with people who share a vast majority of my beliefs. It’s easier to do here than anywhere else, so if you want to know more about my ecclesial affiliation, please contact me offlist or check my profile.

Rob+
Leave Fr. Rob alone. He is not attacking any doctrines of the Church (I wish I could say as much for the majority of American “Catholics”), he is just here to socialize.
 
Rob, it was very courteous of you to update your signature block. I for one appreciate it.
 
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rcn:
Rob, it was very courteous of you to update your signature block. I for one appreciate it.
No problem. Just took me a while to figure out how to do it so that everyone was at least marginally happy with it… myself included 😉

Rob+
 
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FrRobSST:
No problem. Just took me a while to figure out how to do it so that everyone was at least marginally happy with it… myself included 😉

Rob+
Your Protestant denomination does not have Apostolic Succession. You do not have valid Holy Orders. That’s where your adversiting runs wrong…
 
Pariah Pirana:
Your Protestant denomination does not have Apostolic Succession. You do not have valid Holy Orders. That’s where your adversiting runs wrong…
And you know that because…? So far as I can tell, you have not contacted my bishop who can set your mind at east regarding our Apostolic Succession.

Further, while you may not wish to call me Catholic, I would ask that you abstain from calling me a Protestant. I’m not protesting anything, and I find the term patently offensive. If you refuse to call me a Catholic or catholic, then at least do me the honor of calling me a Christian.

Rob+
 
Oh dear what a mix up, someone has to say what’s what in this church, if the people are so numb to the spirit, i hope people will always be able to worship God as all should, who believe in Jesus as savior.
Weather it be facing east, dancing, or anything else, Love should allow all these things, so long as they aren’t against God, they might offend some people, that isn’t good, try and be all things to everyone, then it wouldn’t be bad.
GOOD CHOICE FOR POPE BENEDICT XVI
I wish him well, though my meaning doesn’t mean much in the greater scheme of things.
Hope he carries on what he’s been doing for the last few years.
Hope there is no more liturgical abuse, though it’s hard to say what that is!
Let’s just thank God that all is well with the Church, instead of seaking faults, if you don’t like it get out, or build up people within, don’t just complain!
 
Let’s just thank God that all is well with the Church, instead of seaking faults, if you don’t like it get out, or build up people within, don’t just complain!
People who say that “Like it or get out” I find to be so arrogant it’s frustrating, how can you be so sure you are right all the time? There are billions of Catholics in the world, all with different ways of thinking, not everyone thinks the same as you and should not be told to “get out” because they do not think the same way as you do.

I would personally, love to see the Pope rip up all the stupid liturgical everything, all the stupid rules and get back to the gospel and doing as Jesus did. Rejecting materialism and heirachies and promoting peace, equality and helping others. People suffer every day, they are more important and more beautiful than any stupid Vatican. This will never happen though.

Why are you arguing about kneeling positions and use of Latin? For goodness sake, does it REALLY matter? Is it really THAT important? Is it REALLY going to make a differance to anything?
 
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Harriet:
I would personally, love to see the Pope rip up all the stupid liturgical everything, all the stupid rules and get back to the gospel and doing as Jesus did. Rejecting materialism and heirachies and promoting peace, equality and helping others. People suffer every day, they are more important and more beautiful than any stupid Vatican. This will never happen though.
The hierarchy is Biblical. Here is why liturgies are important(from the new pope):
The Christian faith can never be separated from the soil of sacred events, from the choice made by God, who wanted to speak to us, to become man, to die and rise again, in a particular place and at a particular time. . . . The Church does not pray in some kind of mythical omnitemporality. She cannot forsake her roots. She recognizes the true utterance of God precisely in the concreteness of its history, in time and place: to these God ties us, and by these we are all tied together. The diachronic aspect, praying with the Fathers and the apostles, is part of what we mean by rite, but it also includes a local aspect, extending from Jerusalem to Antioch, Rome, Alexandria, and Constantinople. Rites are not, therefore, just the products of inculturation, however much they may have incorporated elements from different cultures. They are forms of the apostolic Tradition and of its unfolding in the great places of the Tradition.
Unspontaneity is of their essence. In these rites I discover that something is approaching me here that I did not produce myself, that I am entering into something greater than myself, which ultimately derives from divine revelation. This is why the Christian East calls the liturgy the “Divine Liturgy”, expressing thereby the liturgy’s independence from human control.

This action of God, which takes place through human speech, is the real “action” for which all creation is in expectation. The elements of the earth are transubstantiated, pulled, so to speak, from their creaturely anchorage, grasped at the deepest ground of their being, and changed into the Body and Blood of the Lord. The New Heaven and the New Earth are anticipated. The real “action” in the liturgy in which we are all supposed to participate is the action of God himself. This is what is new and distinctive about the Christian liturgy: God himself acts and does what is essential.

“The Cross is the approbation of our existence, not in words, but in an act so completely radical that it caused God to become flesh and pierced this flesh to the quick; that, to God, it was worth the death of his incarnate Son. One who is so loved that the other identifies his life with this love and no longer desires to live if he is deprived of it; one who is loved even unto death – such a one knows that he is truly loved. But if God so loves us, then we are loved in truth. Then love is truth, and truth is love. Then life is worth living. This is the evangelium. This is why, even as the message of the Cross, it is glad tidings for one who believes; the only glad tidings that destroy the ambiguity of all other joys and make them worthy to be joy. Christianity is, by its very nature, joy – the ability to be joyful.”
Why are you arguing about kneeling positions and use of Latin? For goodness sake, does it REALLY matter? Is it really THAT important? Is it REALLY going to make a differance to anything?
Latin, no. Kneeling, yes. When the Lord is physically present, proper respect should be shown for Him and His sacrifice.
 
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Harriet:
People who say that “Like it or get out” I find to be so arrogant it’s frustrating, how can you be so sure you are right all the time? There are billions of Catholics in the world, all with different ways of thinking, not everyone thinks the same as you and should not be told to “get out” because they do not think the same way as you do.
Those of us who say people should conform if they want to be Catholic are not being arrogant. It doesn’t matter how or what anyone thinks. These are not my ideas or the ideas of any individual Catholic. We all must conform to the Truth presented by the teaching authority established by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Harriet:
People who say that “Like it or get out” I find to be so arrogant it’s frustrating, how can you be so sure you are right all the time? There are billions of Catholics in the world, all with different ways of thinking, not everyone thinks the same as you and should not be told to “get out” because they do not think the same way as you do.

I would personally, love to see the Pope rip up all the stupid liturgical everything, all the stupid rules and get back to the gospel and doing as Jesus did. Rejecting materialism and heirachies and promoting peace, equality and helping others. People suffer every day, they are more important and more beautiful than any stupid Vatican. This will never happen though.

Why are you arguing about kneeling positions and use of Latin? For goodness sake, does it REALLY matter? Is it really THAT important? Is it REALLY going to make a differance to anything

I’m sorry it offended you a little, didn’t mean to, i just get sick of people who complain all the time without saying anything meaningful or achieving anything, kneel when it’s necessary, do what God calls you to do, have mercy on everyone who asks it. and never forget God loves us all, rich and poor.
 
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Harriet:
People who say that “Like it or get out” I find to be so arrogant it’s frustrating, how can you be so sure you are right all the time? There are billions of Catholics in the world, all with different ways of thinking, not everyone thinks the same as you and should not be told to “get out” because they do not think the same way as you do.

I would personally, love to see the Pope rip up all the stupid liturgical everything, all the stupid rules and get back to the gospel and doing as Jesus did. Rejecting materialism and heirachies and promoting peace, equality and helping others. People suffer every day, they are more important and more beautiful than any stupid Vatican. This will never happen though.

Why are you arguing about kneeling positions and use of Latin? For goodness sake, does it REALLY matter? Is it really THAT important? Is it REALLY going to make a differance to anything?
This is what I hope the new Pope corrects…and fast!
 
Fix, to your response to Harriet (poor soul) I have but one response:

:amen:
 
Tantum ergo:
Fix, to your response to Harriet (poor soul) I have but one response:

:amen:
Poor soul indeed. How many other souls out there think the same?
 
I know but I’m just annoyed. I hate the way the Church gets so hung up on tradition and sexual morality. I wish to see the Church focus on helping the sick and the dying and encouraging others to do the same. People in the Church preach so much against abortion yet they hardly ever mention the innocent dying everyday through poverty and injustice and nobody cares.

The Pope has so much power, people listen to him, if they saw him actively helping to end poverty then other people would take notice and do the same. The new Pope should really help make a difference instead of arguing whether it is a mortal sin to have sex outside of marriage or not, or to use contraception, if you look at all the issues in the world, all the war, hatred, human suffering mortal sins just seem so trivial. That’s why I think the Church should go back to the gospel and ignore everything else.
I’m sorry it offended you a little
Well you all believe you are right anyway, why should it matter what some fed up seventeen year old on the other side of the Atlantic believes? The Church doesn’t listen to the likes of me anyway, I’m a girl remember, I have no place.
 
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Harriet:
Well you all believe you are right anyway, why should it matter what some fed up seventeen year old on the other side of the Atlantic believes? The Church doesn’t listen to the likes of me anyway, I’m a girl remember, I have no place.

I was seventeen once too.
Please believe me when I say that the Catholic Church feeds the poor and hungry. The Pope, at this time must minister to all his flock and let the Catholic Charities take care of the poor and hungry.

Just because you don’t see it before your eyes doesn’t mean it is not happening.

It looks like all bright lights and show at this point and we who would like the liturgical abuses to change look pretty shallow to you. But it’s a discussion board and this is what we are discussing now.

Mother Theresa and many other orders are in the Belly of the Beast when it comes to helping those who need it. I wish I could introduce you to the Order by me that go into the worst parts of Detroit to help people. You would be amazed!

The church is all of us, not just the Pope.
God Bless and I hope this helps.
 
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FrRobSST:
There is already a topic on this matter in “Non-Catholic Religions” and I will be replying to all further inquries on the topic via private messages.

I am not here to try to convert you or anyone else. I want to enjoy fellowship with people who share a vast majority of my beliefs. It’s easier to do here than anywhere else, so if you want to know more about my ecclesial affiliation, please contact me offlist or check my profile.

Rob+
I for one am glad to have Fr. Rob here on our forums. He brings interesting insight. :tiphat: Also, the fact that he seems to irritate Pirana so much is amusing to me. 😃

Back on topic…it may be up to the celebrant if he wants to say Mass facing east, away from the people, ad orientem, whatever. But I believe a bishop is also within his rights to prohibit the practice.

Perhaps a firm directive from Rome will settle the issue once and for all. Oremus. :gopray2:
 
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Harriet:
I know but I’m just annoyed. I hate the way the Church gets so hung up on tradition and sexual morality. I wish to see the Church focus on helping the sick and the dying and encouraging others to do the same. People in the Church preach so much against abortion yet they hardly ever mention the innocent dying everyday through poverty and injustice and nobody cares.

The Pope has so much power, people listen to him, if they saw him actively helping to end poverty then other people would take notice and do the same. The new Pope should really help make a difference instead of arguing whether it is a mortal sin to have sex outside of marriage or not, or to use contraception, if you look at all the issues in the world, all the war, hatred, human suffering mortal sins just seem so trivial. That’s why I think the Church should go back to the gospel and ignore everything else.

Well you all believe you are right anyway, why should it matter what some fed up seventeen year old on the other side of the Atlantic believes? The Church doesn’t listen to the likes of me anyway, I’m a girl remember, I have no place.
Eternal souls are more important than temporal bodies. That being said, the Church has done more for human dignity than any other organiztion on earth. That includes the sick and dying. Abortion causes millions of deaths every year. How many people starve to death? Abortion is by the far the worst problem and biggest injustice on this earth. As for what the Church thinks of women, read this: MULIERIS DIGNITATEM vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

Oh, and the Gospel you want to get back to is pretty clear on sexual morality and women priestesses and it’s just as the Church teaches it.
 
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Harriet:
I know but I’m just annoyed. I hate the way the Church gets so hung up on tradition and sexual morality. I wish to see the Church focus on helping the sick and the dying and encouraging others to do the same.
I cannot speak on behalf of the Churches in Communion with Rome, but let me say this.

Jesus preached about love and kindness, charity and peace a lot… but he also preached repentance and avoidance of Sin.

Jesus’ apostles preached about love and kindness, charity and peace a lot… but they also preached repentance and avoidance of Sin.

The Church (both in and out of Communion with Rome) spends a very significant amout of time and money on reliving the needs of the poor, but that is not the only thing the Church must do.

The Church is here to form consciences in Christ’s gospel - his whole Gospel - and in the word of God found in the evangelists and apostles. They spoke about purity of body, mind, heart, and spirit as much as they spoke about charity and love. Most of the New Testament epistles were written to reinforce love but they were written in response to abuses and sins that were plauging the Church at that time.

They are still plauging the Church today.

We must make sure that our Liturgy, which is the chief means of ongoing catechesis of our people, teaches the truth in love, but that it still teaches the truth.

That means preaching about our obligations towards the poor.
It also means preaching about our obligations to purity of life and all that it entails, including about sexuality, abortion, etc.
People in the Church preach so much against abortion yet they hardly ever mention the innocent dying everyday through poverty and injustice and nobody cares.
Not around where I live. Not on EWTN. Not in any official statements by pope or council or prelates.
The Pope has so much power, people listen to him, if they saw him actively helping to end poverty then other people would take notice and do the same.
Why? What motivation do they have? The world is steeped in anti-God selfishisim, capitalisim, and a me-first mentality. What motivation do they have to change and follow the Pope’s lead?
The new Pope should really help make a difference instead of arguing whether it is a mortal sin to have sex outside of marriage or not, or to use contraception, if you look at all the issues in the world, all the war, hatred, human suffering mortal sins just seem so trivial.
You can do all kinds of good works, but without living the entire life of Christ in action, including sexual morality, your good works are worth no more than kindling. Remember, our Lord said that people will say, “Lord, Lord, look at all that we did for you!” and the Lord will cast them away for their sins.
That’s why I think the Church should go back to the gospel and ignore everything else.
Remember what Christ told the woman caught in adultery. “I forgive you. Now get, and DON’T DO IT AGAIN!”

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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST
Well you all believe you are right anyway, why should it matter what some fed up seventeen year old on the other side of the Atlantic believes? The Church doesn’t listen to the likes of me anyway, I’m a girl remember, I have no place.
Why do you say this? Because you cannot be a priest? Women have always held a prized place in Christian history, beginning with humble Mary the Theotokos! She is the first of the saints, the chosen handmaid of the Lord! What a marvelous example! Scripture is repleat with examples of women who made a difference! You can too!

Remember, no-one has the RIGHT to be a priest. Not you, not me. The Church makes the call and equips those whom the Lord has chosen. The Lord may be calling you to a vocation as a wife and mother or as a religious sister, or as a single woman dedicated to the needs of others. PRAY FREQUENTLY. Confess your sins, just like I do! Go to Mass, follow the humble example of the Blessed Virgin… and then ask yourself what the Lord is calling you to.

The Church wants you, the Lord wants you, and I encourage you to heed the words of the late, Great, Pope John Paul the Second:

“Do not be afraid!”

Rob+
 
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