Pope Benedict's comments on condom use

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The pope is not only a leader of State, but the most visible Christian leader on the planet earth as well as the head of the largest Church on earth. It stands to reason that when a church has a position that is 100% firmly, no-butts, always against condoms in any way, shape or form, that a statement by a hardline traditionalist like Benedict is fascinating and news-worthy to the media.

I know it’s the knee-jerk reaction for most in here to fear the media, suspect her every move, and think that 24/7 the media is standing sentry to overcome the Catholic Church but I think in this case it’s just a simple situation in which the pope suprised a lot of people with this opinion. It’s not a slam against Catholicism or defamation or the media out to do something dirty, just the pope saying something that came off as suprising and different Church officials had different takes on what he said; it wasn’t very clear where he was going with his statement or what he totally meant IMO, and the Vatican scrambled to try to make sense of it. Case closed.
mark_a said:
I think the Janet Smith article is excellent for folks who may be confused about what Pope Benedict said.

A couple of questions though:

Why does the media (or Protestants, for that matter) even care what the pope thinks or says? If the Church is so obviously out of step with the “real” world, why would they even bother to misrepresent Church teaching?

Man! it’s tough bein’ th’ big dog!
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After a few pages of opinions from various posters, I would ask Jon, the OP, what is your take on what Benedict said? What is your interpretation of his comments and their ramifications?
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
After a few pages of opinions from various posters, I would ask Jon, the OP, what is your take on what Benedict said? What is your interpretation of his comments and their ramifications?
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I really hadn’t taken one, which is what prompted the thread. I generally don’t trust the media as a general rule, and specifically what it comes to Christianity, and even more specifically when it comes to the Catholic Church. So, I was looking for thoughts from the CAF Catholics that I virtually know, and very much trust.

My sense is, now, that the Pope was NOT intending his words to be a walk-back from Catholic teaching regarding artificial birth control, but instead the possibility that condoms can be a possible help in reducing HIV in Africa. The intent of their use seems to be a critical point in understanding of his position.

Jon
 
But it seems a step back when we’ve been told that condom use is intrinsically evil by the Catholic Church and this pope. A condom, in Catholic teaching, is intrinsically, totally evil and frustrates God’s will and mocks the natural law in a big way. The Church has made it clear that a ‘lesser of two evils’ is never acceptable and the ‘ends don’t justify the means’ is a regular Catholic lesson we receive, so I fail to understand how condom use by any translation of the pope’s recent words is coherent and makes any sense whatsoever. I’m still perplexed by his statements and they seem highly contradictory and out of step with the Church? :confused:
JonNC said:
I really hadn’t taken one, which is what prompted the thread. I generally don’t trust the media as a general rule, and specifically what it comes to Christianity, and even more specifically when it comes to the Catholic Church. So, I was looking for thoughts from the CAF Catholics that I virtually know, and very much trust.

My sense is, now, that the Pope was NOT intending his words to be a walk-back from Catholic teaching regarding artificial birth control, but instead the possibility that condoms can be a possible help in reducing HIV in Africa. The intent of their use seems to be a critical point in understanding of his position.

Jon
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Mikeoffaith said:
I thought the whole idea of condoms being bad was that it prevented the possibility of the creation of life, which always must be affirmed. However, if two intrinsically disordered individuals are going at it like rabbits and using condoms what does it matter? Does the prohibition still stand since their union could never result in the possibility of creating life?
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Condom is also an invitation to free sex. The Church is against such. AIDS can be prevented by people returning to what is right. No sex before marriage. the spread of disease is due to free sex and not the lack of condom. condom is not going to make it better before God. The One who tought us the right way of doing things. People no longer accepts that God does punish people today. God is the same today, yesterday and forever. if God punished the people of Israel then who are we to think that we are more deserving? should we think that we are better than the Jews? if you ask me, I know we are worse, much worse. the immorality has become part of our lives today and we dont realize how this has separate us from God.
 
Mikeoffaith said:
I disagree wisdomseeker. I think that is what is at issue. Whether one is using condoms or not, people are still having sex even with the risk of spreading disease. I think the moral choice becomes isn’t it better to preserve life rather than end a life since the act is going to take place whether the condom is present or not?
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So. preserve life? what life? what do you think God is saying about this? if God is so concern about saving our lives on this earth, why do you think He sent His beloved friends to be killed by the wolves? God told the Jews to destroy the evil among them to preserve what is right and good among them. The biggest problem today is that we accepted all the evils of the this to show how good we are.
 
But just because God calls upon the Christian to sometimes give up his life as a martyr also doesn’t mean that God thinks life is cheap and He is indifferent to an epidemic and mass loss of life either…AIDS is not always a “punishment.” Think of innocent children who’ve contracted the disease through rape of their mothers in Africa or people getting AIDS through blood transfusions or through a promiscuous spouse without any culpability on the other spouse’s part?
wisdomseeker said:
So. preserve life? what life? what do you think God is saying about this? if God is so concern about saving our lives on this earth, why do you think He sent His beloved friends to be killed by the wolves? God told the Jews to destroy the evil among them to preserve what is right and good among them. The biggest problem today is that we accepted all the evils of the this to show how good we are.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
But just because God calls upon the Christian to sometimes give up his life as a martyr also doesn’t mean that God thinks life is cheap and He is indifferent to an epidemic and mass loss of life either…AIDS is not always a “punishment.” Think of innocent children who’ve contracted the disease through rape of their mothers in Africa or people getting AIDS through blood transfusions or through a promiscuous spouse without any culpability on the other spouse’s part?
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Sorry. you just dont seem to get it. A sin is a sin. Sin separates us from God.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
But just because God calls upon the Christian to sometimes give up his life as a martyr also doesn’t mean that God thinks life is cheap and He is indifferent to an epidemic and mass loss of life either…AIDS is not always a “punishment.” Think of innocent children who’ve contracted the disease through rape of their mothers in Africa or people getting AIDS through blood transfusions or through a promiscuous spouse without any culpability on the other spouse’s part?
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A rapist is not concerned with condoms. where have you been?
 
No need for rudeness. I do “get it” far more than you can know. I simply said a sin is a sin and I talked about intrinsic evil. Didn’t you read the post? :confused:
wisdomseeker said:
Sorry. you just dont seem to get it. A sin is a sin. Sin separates us from God.
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I never said a rapist was concerned with condoms. Please don’t stick words in my mouth and actually read the posts completely and thoughtfully without jumping to absurd conclusions, wisdom. Your post stated that God punishes people with AIDS and that God’s punishments abound, etc. etc. I simply said that AIDS punishes the innocent as well and I’m questioning your logic and assumptions. You seem to know God’s will and I simply am saying----you don’t. 🙂 Neither do I! Making sweaping statements like the ones you made about punishment are not helpful to anyone.
wisdomseeker said:
A rapist is not concerned with condoms. where have you been?
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
I never said a rapist was concerned with condoms. Please don’t stick words in my mouth and actually read the posts completely and thoughtfully without jumping to absurd conclusions, wisdom. Your post stated that God punishes people with AIDS and that God’s punishments abound, etc. etc. I simply said that AIDS punishes the innocent as well and I’m questioning your logic and assumptions. You seem to know God’s will and I simply am saying----you don’t. 🙂 Neither do I! Making sweaping statements like the ones you made about punishment are not helpful to anyone.
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I just failed to see the connection in your statements.
 
mark_a said:
Because you are interfering with the way God designed the act. Why is it that one would choose a condom over nfp? A condom certainly does nothing to enhance the experience.

Here’s a good article that explains the Jewish roots of the Catholic teaching and how Protestantism has turned a blind eye:
rtforum.org/lt/lt67.html

My signature links to an article about Luther’s and Calvin’s vehement opposition to contraception.

They must be spinning in their graves.
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The Onan story is complicated by the fact that its not entirely clear whether Onan’s sin is that he spilled seed or that he refused to comply with levirate marriage.

The Jewish tradition is definitely not completely clear on this, though it is true that it has been often interpreted in this way.

And it’s definitely not used in any Jewish tradition as a prohibition for all contraceptives. All Jewish traditions allow contraception in some form or another.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15106.html

myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Jewish_Approaches/Purpose_and_Meaning/Procreation_and_Contraception.shtml
 
Maybe we should remind ourselves again that the Pope is expressing his personal opinion. He is writing a book not an encyclical. When he is musing on certain issue he is very much talking in his personal capacity. Previous Popes wrote books too; we can only read his thought on the matter but as long as he does not put it into teaching for the Catholic Church, it will be always a personal opinion in his personal capacity. If anything else, it only goes to show his compassion toward humanity by saying what he said. But nevertheless, condom is still a sin and not allowed in the Catholic Church as far as Catholics are concerned. Nothing has changed.
 
JonNC said:
I really hadn’t taken one, which is what prompted the thread. I generally don’t trust the media as a general rule, and specifically what it comes to Christianity, and even more specifically when it comes to the Catholic Church. So, I was looking for thoughts from the CAF Catholics that I virtually know, and very much trust.

My sense is, now, that the Pope was NOT intending his words to be a walk-back from Catholic teaching regarding artificial birth control, but instead the possibility that condoms can be a possible help in reducing HIV in Africa. The intent of their use seems to be a critical point in understanding of his position.

Jon
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Jon,

I don.t think He meant it as being a possible help, but that the use in the instance he stated does show that that person is at least developing a since of moral right by tring to protect his partner.
 
The Pope’s PERSONAL comment is akin to saying: “If you’re going to commit an armed robbery, could you please use a fake gun, rather than a real one?”

That statement does NOT support the sin of theft. What it DOES say is that “IF you’re going to sin, but you think it through long enough to take precautions to ensure that others don’t get hurt, then AT LEAST this a small step in the RIGHT DIRECTION toward developing a Christian consciousness.”

Any other interpretation of the Pope’s PERSONAL comment is pure media hype, whose purpose is ONLY to sell more ad space for the god of mammon.
 
wisdomseeker said:
So. preserve life? what life? what do you think God is saying about this? if God is so concern about saving our lives on this earth, why do you think He sent His beloved friends to be killed by the wolves? God told the Jews to destroy the evil among them to preserve what is right and good among them. The biggest problem today is that we accepted all the evils of the this to show how good we are.
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So are you reading the mind of God or are you throwing the first stone? Because I’m not sure where you fit.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Condom is also an invitation to free sex. The Church is against such. AIDS can be prevented by people returning to what is right. No sex before marriage. the spread of disease is due to free sex and not the lack of condom. condom is not going to make it better before God. The One who tought us the right way of doing things. People no longer accepts that God does punish people today. God is the same today, yesterday and forever. if God punished the people of Israel then who are we to think that we are more deserving? should we think that we are better than the Jews? if you ask me, I know we are worse, much worse. the immorality has become part of our lives today and we dont realize how this has separate us from God.
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If you are utilizing a male prostitute, I would assume that the sex is not so free. Do you think that the only transmission of HIV is solely through sex?
 
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