Pope Benedicts comments on the Pauline Mass

[ProVobis]

on the contrary, have you ever seen High Mass in the Anglican Use(anglican parishes in communion with Rome)? It is in Elizabethan english

I’m very familiar with the Anglican Rite. I think the Rite was disallowed by Pius V and invalidated by Leo XIII so that makes the Anglican Use an indult, if you will.

except for a few variations from the english reformation.

Like the “for you and for all” consecration in the Church version? Why did they change that, do you know?

all vernacular Masses can and will be very traditional

The Council of Trent prohibited it and Vatican II voted to preserve Latin in the liturgy. Other than that, yes, I could see where someone could be led to thinking it could be most traditional.

 

[Brian777]

I’m very familiar with the Anglican Rite. I think the Rite was disallowed by Pius V and invalidated by Leo XIII so that makes the Anglican Use an indult, if you will.

Like the “for you and for all” consecration in the Church version? Why did they change that, do you know?

The Council of Trent prohibited it and Vatican II voted to preserve Latin in the liturgy. Other than that, yes, I could see where someone could be led to thinking it could be most traditional.

To your first point: yes I guess it would be, but since it is said by validally ordained priestswho are in full communion with Rome, it becomes a valid form much like the Sarum Rite of the Middle Ages.

To your second point: “for you and for all” will soon be “for you and for many” once again once the new translation is issued and that scar will be removed once and for all from the Roman Rite, perhaps that could be followed by a papal mandate requiring other western uses to fall into line.

To your 3rd point: The Council of Trent and the Second vatican Council both mandated latin, again hopefully this will return our Church soon.

Just so you know you are talking to a very Traditional Catholic, its all good.

 

[katy]

As an Anglican convert, I have been quite disappointed with the liturgy in the Catholic Church as there was often much more reverence and “mystery” in many Anglican services.

Sad, but true. I’m hoping the OF improves with time.

 

[CradleCath]

Attend the EF, and you’ll see reverence.

This is so true. The Traditional Latin Mass is not only reverent…it lifts one above the mundane, transports one out of the ordinary “dailyness” of this life, into the beauty & solemnity & dignity that carries us toward the total adoration of the Sacrificial Lamb who offers Himself on the Altar. . Sadly, the Novus Ordo seems shallow & contrived when compared to it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The Council of Trent prohibited it and Vatican II voted to preserve Latin in the liturgy. Other than that, yes, I could see where someone could be led to thinking it could be most traditional.

And the Pope, whose authority supercedes that of any Council, esp. on a matter of discipline, granted the vernacular mass to the faithful…and they’d done it before Vatican II, as well. As Cardinal Arinze said, the vernacular Mass isn’t going anywhere. Pope Benedict, interviewed before his election by Raymond Arroyo, described the vernacular Mass as “helpful.”

 

[Malkin71]

.

This is a myth that has been circulating for years and is not true. The decline in church attendance has many causes to numerous to address here. Yes the mass changes are a part but not the main cause.

What exactly id “new”? An increase in the amount of scripture read? The prayers of the faithful? The procession of gifts at offertory? More than one eucharistic prayer? The sign of peace? These are all very ancient parts of the mass. The OF can be just as beautiful and reverent as the EF mass. All it takes is for the rubrics to be followed.

I would sugggest to anyone who has a desire to learn about the development of the mass to read “A Short History of the Western Liturgy” by Klauser. It’s written well without all the heavy acedemic stuff. Read it and I think you will have a different perspective on this concept of organic development. If your up for the challenge the read Jumgman…2 volumes!

Burgini was banished to Iran. A good book to read on this “Liturgical Time Bombs in Vatican II” by Michael Davies. In the book he does mention what happens to Burgini, how he fell from power to be sent to be Bishop of Iran. It is a good book. He is a convert to Catholicism.

The E.F. Mass grew organic. The O.F. was something different. The liturgical abuses are a living proof. From reading about VII my opinion is that participation should be more internal not external.

 

[Brian777]

And the Pope, whose authority supercedes that of any Council, esp. on a matter of discipline, granted the vernacular mass to the faithful…and they’d done it before Vatican II, as well. As Cardinal Arinze said, the vernacular Mass isn’t going anywhere. Pope Benedict, interviewed before his election by Raymond Arroyo, described the vernacular Mass as “helpful.”

Very true. But this is as long as the celebrant stays true to the Missal and doesnt purposely change words or phrases(something almost impossible to do in latin, unless you are a scholar). I believe in that same interview then Cardinal ratzinger said that a return to ad orientem posture would also be big help to the dignity and reverence of the Mass.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Very true. But this is as long as the celebrant stays true to the Missal and doesnt purposely change words or phrases(something almost impossible to do in latin, unless you are a scholar). I believe in that same interview then Cardinal ratzinger said that a return to ad orientem posture would also be big help to the dignity and reverence of the Mass.

No question. And I absolutely agree. There’s been far to much “winging it.”

Ad orientum would be a grand thing.

 

[ProVobis]

Sad, but true. I’m hoping the OF improves with time.

Maybe take away some of the options and Eucharistic Prayers for starters. Hasn’t the Pope already tried to do this?