Pope Benedict's Motu Proprio and the Rites of the Mendicant Orders

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A discussion on another thread has lead to my question. How does/did the introduction of the Novus Ordo, the indult of John Paul II, and the Motu Proprio of Benedict XVI affect the Rites of the Mendicant Orders that were approved/protected by Pius V ?

The Dominican Rite for example.
 
The other rites in the Latin Church were, for all practical purposes, like the Roman Mass itself, done away with and the novus ordo put in it’s place. The Carthusians had their’s till the early 70’s, not wanting to give it up. They now have the novus ordo. While there might have been an offering of the Dominican, Carmelite, Carthusian, Premonstratensian and Cistercian Mass in the times we are speaking of, it was probably rare and not well publicized.
Code: 
 I was able to attend Holy Saturday in Monroe, CT at Our Lady of the Rosary Chapel, where Bishop Robert Mckenna, O.P., says the Dominican rite.  Anyone wishing to see how it was should get there one of these days, for he is not getting any younger.
I have heard through the grapevine that there are a few Cistercians in Spencer, Massachusetts who still say their old Mass. This was told to me about 4 years ago.
Code: 
Wherever you are, ask Our Lord and Our Lady to assist you and guide you to where you can trully, consistently and reverently receive the sacraments of the Catholic Church and be taught and preached the faith without any compromise whatsoever.
God Bless
 
Hey, I remember Fr (now Bp) Mckenna from his ORCM days.

I have heard that the Orders with a proper rite could have kept it if they had wanted to do so, but most didn’t. I would think that the Motu Proprio should make it easier for priests in these Orders to go back to their traditional rites or at least the Roman TLM.

Let us pray that they do so, along with the rest of the clergy, and that there be a true reform in the Holy Ghost throughout the Church.
 
I have seen copies of a Franciscan Missal-- Missale Seraphicum or something like that. I don’t know if this was a rite or a different usage within the Roman Rite.
 
As was said, the orders were given the option of retaining their own rites but were asked to please adopt the Novus Ordo. Sadly, most of them abandoned their traditions wholesale. The Dominican Rite, however, has long been allowable by the superior (or is it provincial?). At any rate, it exists under a Dominican form of the indult. As with the Ambrosian rite, I think the motu proprio’s effect on these rites is unclear, and especially with the fact that these orders have now adopted the Roman Rite it seems unlikely that freeing the traditional “monastic” uses was also a specific intention of the pope.
 
jj2201 is right. The Franciscan Missal is the Roman rite, not a different usage. A difference is that in the Confiteor, they mention their (spiritual) Father Francis. As with religous orders/congregations in general, they also have distinct propers for their order’s saints. Was privileged to serve an elderly OFM’s Mass this past summer outside Chicago. Let us pray that one day such Masses, as well as the faith that is inherent with it, will not be beyond the grasp of most Catholics, as it is at present.
 
As with the Ambrosian rite, I think the motu proprio’s effect on these rites is unclear,

My understanding is that the Liturgy of St. Ambrose is still used in its post-V2 form. The Archbishop of Milan has said that the MP does not apply to it.
 
Joe17 said:
The other rites in the Latin Church were, for all practical purposes, like the Roman Mass itself, done away with and the novus ordo put in it’s place. The Carthusians had their’s till the early 70’s, not wanting to give it up. They now have the novus ordo. While there might have been an offering of the Dominican, Carmelite, Carthusian, Premonstratensian and Cistercian Mass in the times we are speaking of, it was probably rare and not well publicized.
Code: 
 I was able to attend Holy Saturday in Monroe, CT at Our Lady of the Rosary Chapel, where Bishop Robert Mckenna, O.P., says the Dominican rite.  Anyone wishing to see how it was should get there one of these days, for he is not getting any younger.
I have heard through the grapevine that there are a few Cistercians in Spencer, Massachusetts who still say their old Mass. This was told to me about 4 years ago.
Code: 
Wherever you are, ask Our Lord and Our Lady to assist you and guide you to where you can trully, consistently and reverently receive the sacraments of the Catholic Church and be taught and preached the faith without any compromise whatsoever.
God Bless
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Have you been to this place in Spencer? Are they old rite ordained priests?

I like what you said at the end here. Very beautiful and wise advice.
 
The Carthusians had their’s till the early 70’s, not wanting to give it up. They now have the novus ordo.

**I have seen the Latin text of the revised Carthusian Order of Mass.

It is definitely NOT the Novus Ordo.**
 
Yes, they are,at least some of them, old rite ordained. Other than that, I wouldn’t have much else to ad.

bhbasil, that’s interesting that you say the carthusians don’t use NO. Is their offetory the same as their old rite? Can the Mass text be found any where on the web? Curious.

Joe
 
Wow, this is a whole new area of Church history to me…I’ve never even attended the EF, but reading this puts that yearning for something “special” back in my heart. Not that the Eucharist is any less special at any Mass…but I think some of you might know what I mean.
 
**
bhbasil, that’s interesting that you say the carthusians don’t use NO. Is their offetory the same as their old rite? Can the Mass text be found any where on the web? Curious.**

**I don’t know where I found the Carthusian rite, and I did not keep the file.

Wish I could help you.**
 
The Carmelite rite was surrendered to Rome and can no longer be celebrated by the Carmelites.

The General Superior of the Discalced Carmelites (OCD) surrendered it in 1973 and the Prior General of the Order of Carmelites (O.Carm.) surrendered it in 1974.

I have had some discussions and it appears that Carmelites are not covered by the Motu Proprio as we never had the right to celebrate the EF. Back when we did it was because we staffed a parish and the bishop granted us the right to do so. When we celebrated the Mass normally it was the Carmelite rite which we no longer have.

But there are some Camelites that do celebrate the EF as the request of the bishop of the diocese that they serve at a parish in.
 
ByzCath said:
The Carmelite rite was surrendered to Rome and can no longer be celebrated by the Carmelites.

The General Superior of the Discalced Carmelites (OCD) surrendered it in 1973 and the Prior General of the Order of Carmelites (O.Carm.) surrendered it in 1974.

I have had some discussions and it appears that Carmelites are not covered by the Motu Proprio as we never had the right to celebrate the EF. Back when we did it was because we staffed a parish and the bishop granted us the right to do so. When we celebrated the Mass normally it was the Carmelite rite which we no longer have.

But there are some Camelites that do celebrate the EF as the request of the bishop of the diocese that they serve at a parish in.
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A shame you had to give up your traditions because of the Novus Ordo and Vatican 2.
 
mattkubes said:
Wow, this is a whole new area of Church history to me…I’ve never even attended the EF, but reading this puts that yearning for something “special” back in my heart. Not that the Eucharist is any less special at any Mass…but I think some of you might know what I mean.
Click to expand...
Hi Matt, here are some links you may find of interest…

newliturgicalmovement.org/
Seach the archives for dominican rite, etc.

and…

the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/

the links list on both of these sites will take you to some great places as well 🙂
 
Joe17 said:
Yes, they are,at least some of them, old rite ordained. Other than that, I wouldn’t have much else to ad.

bhbasil, that’s interesting that you say the carthusians don’t use NO. Is their offetory the same as their old rite? Can the Mass text be found any where on the web? Curious.

Joe
Click to expand...
Thank you for answering my question… well at least partly.
You don’t know what belief they hold as in the office of the Pope do you?

It is refreshing to have people to go to to get my questions answered. That is one of my biggest needs these days in helping people.

Godbless and Goodnight!
 
Joe17 said:
Yes, they are,at least some of them, old rite ordained. Other than that, I wouldn’t have much else to ad.

bhbasil, that’s interesting that you say the carthusians don’t use NO. Is their offetory the same as their old rite? Can the Mass text be found any where on the web? Curious.

Joe
Click to expand...
chartreux.org/en/texts.html

You can find Carthusian Liturgical texts there. As far as I know the Carthusians still use their own Mass and Divine Office, though it might have some modifications.
 
bkovacs said:
A shame you had to give up your traditions because of the Novus Ordo and Vatican 2.
Click to expand...
I do not know that we “had” to give it up.

All I could find is that the two General Superiors surrendered the rite to Rome. I have not seen anywhere that Rome asked for it.

It would have been nice if Rome refused it though.

There are some within the O.Carm. who are interested in either restoring the rite or at least looking at it and moving some of it into our celebrations of the OF as the Trappists have done.
 
Wise_Queen said:
Thank you for answering my question… well at least partly.
You don’t know what belief they hold as in the office of the Pope do you?

It is refreshing to have people to go to to get my questions answered. That is one of my biggest needs these days in helping people.

Godbless and Goodnight!
Click to expand...
If you’re asking about Bishop Robert McKenna at Our Lady of the Rosary Chapel in Monroe, CT, the answer is that, unfortunately, he is not in communion with Rome because he is a sedevacantist.
 
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