Pope: "bishops whose first instinct is to avoid conflicts...I find repulsive"

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Cardinal Arinze Reiterates - for the N’th Time - No Communion for Pro-Abort Politicians

PITTSBURGH, July 25, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - According to Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Vatican’s chief over the administration of the sacraments, the denial of Holy Communion to pro-abortion politicians is a no-brainer. Speaking at a dinner in Pittsburgh over the weekend, Arinze responded with his usual wit to the question, “Should Catholic legislators who support legal abortion ‘be refused’ Communion?”

The Cardinal elicited laughter when he rejoined, “I ask you, do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to find the answer?”

He quipped, “Are there no children from First Communion to whom you can pose the question and receive the answer? You do not need a cardinal to answer that. Because it is a straightforward matter.” In the Catholic Church, children are prepared to receive the Sacrament at the age of approximately seven years.

The Cardinal, moreover, is speaking not from his personal opinion but from the Church’s Code of Canon Law which states, “Those who…obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.”

Apparently, however, the bishops do need a Vatican Cardinal to tell them. The US and Canadian bishops, with only a handful of exceptions, far from endorsing this requirement of the Church law, have evaded the issue or remained silent. Cardinal McCarrick of Washington, soon to retire, went so far as to withhold from the meeting of the US bishops’ conference, the pertinent section of a letter by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, (CDF) in which he said such legislators “must be refused” communion.

Cardinal Arinze is the Vatican’s Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship and Sacraments, is the third highest authority in the Church matters pertaining to the sacraments, after the Pope and the current head of the CDF. He spoke at a benefit dinner hosted by a lay group, the Apostolate for Family Consecration.

In book-length interview with journalist Peter Seewald, the future Pope Benedict XVI said of bishops whose first instinct is to avoid conflicts, "Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive."

Read related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
Since Denver Meeting Divisions Between US Bishops on Communion Issue Continue to Surface [lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jul/04071210.html](http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/<a%20href=http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jul/04071210.html>http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jul/04071210.html)

Read coverage in Post Gazette:
[post-gazette.com/pg/05206/543242.stm](http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/<a%20href=http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05206/543242.stm>http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05206/543242.stm)

hw
 
Lets just hope our Papa decides to clean house here in th US…
 
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Isidore_AK:
Lets just hope our Papa decides to clean house here in th US…
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And pray he will fumigate many chanceries here, and replenish them with orthodox new blood…:gopray2:
 
Pope Benedict is the right Pope for the time.

When Pope John Paul came to power a more nurturing hand was needed (like a parent to a toddler) to get us through the chaos that occurred after and learn the true message of Vatican II.

I see Pope Benedict as more of a disciplinarian that is now needed to finally weed out the dissention of the fringe elements. The ones acting like bratty adolescents.

PF
 
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Catholic29:
And pray he will fumigate many chanceries here, and replenish them with orthodox new blood…:gopray2:
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Amen to that. We need intelligent orthodoxy. Part of the problem is that not only are our priests and bishops heterodox, many of them are just plain dumb and poorly educated.
 
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byzmelkite:
Amen to that. We need intelligent orthodoxy. Part of the problem is that not only are our priests and bishops heterodox, many of them are just plain dumb and poorly educated.
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Byzmelkite:

I would accept domb and poorly educated so long as the Priests and Bishops understood what they didn’t know and submitted themselves and their preaching to the Magisterium of the Church, but they don’t.

The other problem is that we have a lot of leaders who are “Worldly-wise” (wise in the things of the world) but who are ignorant of the things of God. So these people are WELL-EDUCATED, but they are well-educated in the things that don’t help them to guide people into the Kingdom of God.

I think it’s hard to study Scripture AS THE REVEALED WORLD OF GOD and as part of the UNCHANGING deposit of Divine Revelations and the Teachings of the Fathers as relavant to today and not to hold and teach the Catholic Faith.

The problem is that the people you are talking about don’t do these, so they are “Wise in the things of the world but foolish in the ways of God”.

Blessed are they who act to stop the slaughter of the Innocent, Michael
 
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byzmelkite:
Amen to that. We need intelligent orthodoxy.
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Around here that’s apparently a contradiction of terms. :whacky:

To “clean house” as it were, is to encourage marginal Catholics to either shape up or ship out, right?

If you ask people to shape up or ship out, and especially people who are weak in faith, will some of them leave as a result of your actions? Will some of them not come back? Of those, was your act toward them the proverbial “straw” that really chased them out?

Now, tell me if absolutists believe that leaving the Catholic Church are committing a sin. If so, then you are encouraging people to commit a mortal sin, and then after doing so they are separated from the bread of life and reconciliation and everything.

To get to the point, if you in your incredible Catholic wisdom chase some “little ones” who might just be some of the least of Christ’s brothers for whom He died just like He did for you, out of the Church, and they end up in hell, don’t you think you are partly culpable for using the name of the pope to throw those weak ones overboard? Can anybody here remember how Christ spoke of those who presume to be teachers of the law but lead little ones astray?

Honestly, encouraging your Catholic family members to commit mortal sin and then crowing about it because you’ve protected the Church from those awful sinners. Me Tarzan, you Church. Me protect you from bad guys, aaaaaaa-aa-aaaaaa-aa-aaaaaa! What a sorry situation. Some day you might figure out that it isn’t always the Other Person who causes strife and division.

Alan
 
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Catholic29:
And pray he will fumigate many chanceries here, and replenish them with orthodox new blood…:gopray2:
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Sounds a bit like ethnic cleansing… :whistle:

Alan
 
Ani Ibi said:
Cardinal Arinze Reiterates - for the N’th Time - No Communion for Pro-Abort Politicians

PITTSBURGH, July 25, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - According to Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Vatican’s chief over the administration of the sacraments, the denial of Holy Communion to pro-abortion politicians is a no-brainer. Speaking at a dinner in Pittsburgh over the weekend, Arinze responded with his usual wit to the question, “Should Catholic legislators who support legal abortion ‘be refused’ Communion?”

The Cardinal elicited laughter when he rejoined, “I ask you, do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to find the answer?”

He quipped, “Are there no children from First Communion to whom you can pose the question and receive the answer? You do not need a cardinal to answer that. Because it is a straightforward matter.” In the Catholic Church, children are prepared to receive the Sacrament at the age of approximately seven years.
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I find this type of humor extremely offensive, and a terrible example for leaders of the Church to set.

First of all, the jokes are about people whom they have honest grievances against, so there is no “innocent” humor in it. It is a vicious slam disguised as being so obvious even though the Vatican’s own bishops argue about this very matter, that they are completely denying the dignity of the faithful who are in error here. The humor is a thin veneer which fails to disguise the condemnation in their hearts they hold for certain types of sinners.

This man is as much as claiming that any First Communicant is better equipped to answer questions of faith than many of his of bishops. Wow; that’s quite a statement to make publicly if your goal is unity in the Church. Tell the world the people running your organization are fools, stupider than tenth graders, and then see how many people come want to be Catholic. Good plan, Cardinal.

He sounds kind of pompous to me. His “wit” needs to be put to a good use.
Cardinal McCarrick of Washington, soon to retire, went so far as to withhold from the meeting of the US bishops’ conference, the pertinent section of a letter by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, (CDF) in which he said such legislators “must be refused” communion.
Click to expand...
Cardinal Arinze is the Vatican’s Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship and Sacraments, is the third highest authority in the Church matters pertaining to the sacraments, after the Pope and the current head of the CDF. He spoke at a benefit dinner hosted by a lay group, the Apostolate for Family Consecration.

In book-length interview with journalist Peter Seewald, the future Pope Benedict XVI said of bishops whose first instinct is to avoid conflicts, "Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive."
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Now I’m starting to feel how some conservative Reagan lovers feel about Bush being in the White House.

I wonder how this sort of statement is going to translate into children heading for vocations? Would you like to work for a boss who spews this kind of vitriole about you in public?

Please let this be a joke. Don’t tell me the man in charge of morals in the whole world vilifies his own employees in public, blaming them for all his problems when he’s only been on the job a few weeks. I’ve heard many names for bosses who treat their people that way, but I never heard Holy Father included in that group before.

Alan
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Pope Benedict is the right Pope for the time.

When Pope John Paul came to power a more nurturing hand was needed (like a parent to a toddler) to get us through the chaos that occurred after and learn the true message of Vatican II.

I see Pope Benedict as more of a disciplinarian that is now needed to finally weed out the dissention of the fringe elements. The ones acting like bratty adolescents.

PF
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May I assume the “fringe elements” are lesser than you, and even possibly the “least of Christ’s brothers?”

Then you would say to the least of Christ’s brothers, for whom he died, “you are not worthy to be among us. You are a bratty adolescent.”

Therefore is you agree that the least of Christ’s brothers could be included in that fringe element, and combining this with Jesus’s teaching, I can revise your post in part as follows:

WanderAimlessly to Christ (via his least brother): “you, my very lesser brother, are a fringe element and I look forward to seeing Big Papa weed you out so I don’t have to listen to your disagreeing with me any more, you bratty adolescent.”

Did I miss something? If this is not what you effectively just got done saying to Jesus, then where is the flaw in my argument?

Alan
 
In book-length interview with journalist Peter Seewald, the future Pope Benedict XVI said of bishops whose first instinct is to avoid conflicts, "Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive."

When was this interview?
I agree that Bishops should not shrink from facing up to conflicts.
But I wonder what the whole original context of this quote was.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
May I assume the “fringe elements” are lesser than you, and even possibly the “least of Christ’s brothers?”
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Alan:

When I talk about the fring elements, I am talking about the Radical Modernists (CTA, VOTF, …) who want Female Priests, Gat Marriage, Contraception, etc, and the Radical Traditionalists (SSPX…) who want to scrap everything after Vatican II.

The ones who think they are more Catholic than the Pope.

PF
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Alan:

When I talk about the fring elements, I am talking about the Radical Modernists (CTA, VOTF, …) who want Female Priests, Gat Marriage, Contraception, etc, and the Radical Traditionalists (SSPX…) who want to scrap everything after Vatican II.

The ones who think they are more Catholic than the Pope.

PF
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I’m sorry, I guess I might have gotten too defensive here. I was arguing against a whole “genre” of thought, and to make it seem personal against you was unfair.

There is a difference between denouncing folks who are actively impeding others from faith, and those who have personal problems. Still, those who wish to change the Church may actually be thinking they are right and are doing what they do out of ignorance. Since I’ve had little contact with these groups, I cannot presume to know what the prognosis is for getting through to them.

Still I think we need to be very careful that we avoid the “shape out if you don’t like it here” approach, which is understandable given the frustration level running a Church can probably bring about in all but the most saintly clergy. While understandable, if we stand on absolute principles we still need to heed Christ’s teachings about unity.

What these people don’t know (and hopefully it is true) is that the Church is not going to change certain things, and they can say what they want but it won’t change. It’s like a spoiled kid that throws temper tantrums against a firm parent. There’s just no point. Next do we have to throw them out? I say the more we combat them and tell them how wrong they are (they’ve heard it before so I doubt we have any further “brothery obligation” to keep warning them) the more we deepen the chasm. I’ve heard you should keep your friends close to you, but keep your enemies even closer. Sounds like wise advice; once you sever ties with them there is no more limit – even imaginary – on what they might do. I still don’t like it but again I’m sorry for lumping you in with others who have about the patience of a gnat and if two days of Internet posting doesn’t cure them then they must be obstinate and should be kicked out.

Please accept my apologies for conferring my poor opinions of some whose side I thought you were on, to you. :o

Alan
 
No he is NOT Alan! He’s merely telling the person that asked is that you don’t need a cardinal at the very top to tell you the answer to this question! I agree, a child out of First Communion would be able to tell you the answer! The politicians and the bishops know the answer! You know the answer! I know the answer!

It’s pathetic how people keep on coming with the same question, we know the answer, MOVE ON!

Michael 🙂
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AlanFromWichita:
I find this type of humor extremely offensive, and a terrible example for leaders of the Church to set.

First of all, the jokes are about people whom they have honest grievances against, so there is no “innocent” humor in it. It is a vicious slam disguised as being so obvious even though the Vatican’s own bishops argue about this very matter, that they are completely denying the dignity of the faithful who are in error here. The humor is a thin veneer which fails to disguise the condemnation in their hearts they hold for certain types of sinners.

This man is as much as claiming that any First Communicant is better equipped to answer questions of faith than many of his of bishops. Wow; that’s quite a statement to make publicly if your goal is unity in the Church. Tell the world the people running your organization are fools, stupider than tenth graders, and then see how many people come want to be Catholic. Good plan, Cardinal.

He sounds kind of pompous to me. His “wit” needs to be put to a good use.

Alan
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We had a conference last night titled “Heroic Holiness” led by our priest Fr. Thomas J. Loya and radio personality Sally Robb from Relevant Radio. Several comments seem to fit this discussion but the most telling is the one from Father. “You know, don’t you, that priests tend to be trained not to be men?” We all knew what he was talking about. Heroic holiness is a particularly manly trait. Heroic holiness demands that men defend the truth by confronting God and false teaching. It demands our lives even as Christ gave His. It demands that we come and die.

The challenge to every bishop, every priest, every man is to stand up before God, hear the truth which is frequently very painful, defend it and the faithful against all odds, and then die. A pitiful few there are who are ready to do that.

I’m thankful for Cardinal Arinze.

Dan L
 
Ani Ibi said:
In book-length interview with journalist Peter Seewald, the future Pope Benedict XVI said of bishops whose first instinct is to avoid conflicts, "Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive."
Click to expand...

I love this Pope. :amen::amen::amen:
 
shannon e:
When was this interview?
I agree that Bishops should not shrink from facing up to conflicts.
But I wonder what the whole original context of this quote was.
Click to expand...
Here is some more context (from San Diego News). It appears to be an excerpt from a book called Salt of the Earth:

RATZINGER: THERE IS A LOT of talk today about the Church’s prophetic task. The word is sometimes misused. But it is true that the Church may never simply align herself with the Zeitgeist. The Church must address the vices and perils of the time; she must appeal to the consciences of the powerful and of the intellectuals, not to mention of those who want to live narrow-minded, comfortable lives while ignoring the needs of the time, and so forth.

As a bishop I felt obliged to this task. Moreover, the deficits were too obvious; the exhaustion of faith, decline in vocations, lowering of moral standards even among men of the Church, an increasing tendency toward violence, and much else. The words of the Bible and of the Church Fathers rang in my ears, those sharp condemnations of shepherds who are like mute dogs; in order to avoid conflicts, they let the poison spread.

Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive.

– Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, from Salt of the Earth, Ignatius Press, 1997
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Please accept my apologies for conferring my poor opinions of some whose side I thought you were on, to you. :o
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Alan:

No problem. I sometimes do not clarify myself enough. I am constantly ranting against the Radical Modernist and Radical Traditionalists in various forums. I see them as a real danger to the Church and its members due to poor formation of the past number of decades. Fortunately, I see formation improving in the past number of years and I see it continuing under Pope Benedict.

PF
 
Ani Ibi:
Here is some more context (from San Diego News). It appears to be an excerpt from a book called Salt of the Earth:

RATZINGER: THERE IS A LOT of talk today about the Church’s prophetic task. The word is sometimes misused. But it is true that the Church may never simply align herself with the Zeitgeist. The Church must address the vices and perils of the time; she must appeal to the consciences of the powerful and of the intellectuals, not to mention of those who want to live narrow-minded, comfortable lives while ignoring the needs of the time, and so forth.

As a bishop I felt obliged to this task. Moreover, the deficits were too obvious; the exhaustion of faith, decline in vocations, lowering of moral standards even among men of the Church, an increasing tendency toward violence, and much else. The words of the Bible and of the Church Fathers rang in my ears, those sharp condemnations of shepherds who are like mute dogs; in order to avoid conflicts, they let the poison spread.

Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive.

– Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, from Salt of the Earth, Ignatius Press, 1997
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Thanks, Ani.
 
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