Pope Blasts 'Dismal Theories' on Gays

[pathia]

As for the argument that Christ would not have us spend all of our money on a therapy that might not work, I urge you to recall what Christ said to the rich young man, to sell everything he had. As far as the efficacy of the therapies involved, you might be interested to know what the psychologists who conduct this therapy have to say about the individuals who fail such programs. Ismond Rosen (“Psychoanalysis and Homosexuality: A Critical Appraisal of Helpful Attitudes,” in Hope for Homosexuality, pp.40-41.), William E. Consiglio (“Doing Therapy in an Alien Culture with Christians Overcoming Homosexuality,” Journal of Pastoral Counseling, p. 150), as well as Elizabeth Moberly, Charles Socarrides, Joseph Nicolosi and Gerald van den Aardweg all stress the importance of the patient’s motivation in overcoming the homosexual condition. In other words, failure in therapy is due to an issue of the will and can therefore not be excused as something outside the realm of the individual’s control.

Two points here from my perspective.

People like Richard Cohen, Richard P. Fitzgibbons and Joseph Nicolosi normally refuse to treat people like me. They will not answer any of my questions or even offer the barest of suggestions on my condition. They will not even set up an appointment with me to even discuss options, or give suggestions of who I should go to.

As for a rich man giving up everything? I’ll make a confession here, some may have noticed my posts are very sporadic here, that’s because I’m more or less homeless. I live out of my car. I do my posting from public libraries most of the time.

What money? I have none to spend on therapy, I have enough trouble not starving and paying my bills. I could make plenty of money if I worked the street, some of my friends do, but I respect my body too much to destroy it that way.

Rachel

 

[bones_IV]

How would you feel if someone told you that your son or daughter was intrinsically disordered? That wouldn’t hurt your feelings?

Read the Catechism my friend.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. **Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 **They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

I feel no shame in using the terms disordered when referring to the gay culture.

 

[Other_Eric]

Two points here from my perspective.

People like Richard Cohen, Richard P. Fitzgibbons and Joseph Nicolosi normally refuse to treat people like me. They will not answer any of my questions or even offer the barest of suggestions on my condition. They will not even set up an appointment with me to even discuss options, or give suggestions of who I should go to.

As for a rich man giving up everything? I’ll make a confession here, some may have noticed my posts are very sporadic here, that’s because I’m more or less homeless. I live out of my car. I do my posting from public libraries most of the time.

What money? I have none to spend on therapy, I have enough trouble not starving and paying my bills. I could make plenty of money if I worked the street, some of my friends do, but I respect my body too much to destroy it that way.

Rachel

In the first place, I wonder if your inability to find a therapist has more to do with your inability to pay rather than your medical condition. In the second place, that you have bills at all and that you live out of a car implies that you have some level of material possessions that, though meager, could be sold in favor of a walk with Christ.

 

[pathia]

In the first place, I wonder if your inability to find a therapist has more to do with your inability to pay rather than your medical condition. In the second place, that you have bills at all and that you live out of a car implies that you have some level of material possessions that, though meager, could be sold in favor of a walk with Christ.

They deny me before I mention my poverty. They do not treat intersexism cases. As for my car it is a mid80s buick in poor condition and worth less than one therapy session. Without it I would lose my one job and become truly homeless. Shelters are not an option for me as they force me into the mens room where I am harassed or sometimes even molested. I am more in danger there, plus without a job I would default on my education loans, which would more or less ruin my life entirely. The government frowns pretty heavily on not paying those, you cannot absolve it via bankrupcy.

 

[vern_humphrey]

As I see it, the process of offering something to the Cross is one of giving over the desire itself to Christ. In order to understand why this is inappropriate counsel for those with same-sex attraction, one need look no farther than St. Paul’s letter to the Romans.

**. . . . . **
This passage illustrates how the condition of same-sex attraction is itself the consequence of turning one’s back on the Grace of God. To therefore offer this disorder up to the cross without making serious efforts to correct it is akin to offering a sponge soaked in vinegar and gall to the Cross. Christ rejects such impious offerings.

Your understanding is incorrect.

Persons who suffer, and most especially those who have no reasonable expectation of having their suffering alleviated, may quite properly offer up their suffering as a sacrifice.

People who are afflicted with alcoholism, drug addiction and same sex attraction are suffering, and they can legitimately make their suffering and their struggle to maintain a moral life a true sacrifice.

 

[Robert_Bay]

NOTICE

This thread is off topic. Please return to the topic of the original post. If you would like to discuss other topics, please find a recent news article on that topic and post a new thread, or start a discussion in another forum.

If the topic does not return to the original topic, I will have to close the thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Topic in original post:

**Pope Blasts ‘Dismal Theories’ on Gays
**
Quote:
But he saved his strongest words for those who suggest gay couples should be put on the same level as a husband and wife.

“This tacitly accredits those dismal theories that strip all relevance from the masculinity and femininity of the human being as though it were a purely biological issue,” the Pope said.

 

[KathleenElsie]

See, the fact that your brother was bothered by the term is the very reason that I would not use it. The fact that he overcame the hurtful comments made by others does not excuse the people who made them.

If you will look into the history of words, you will find that even as terms change the new term then becomes just as hurtful. Thus the word that is ok today becomes the “hate” term of tomorrow. We could use the medically accepted term for all things and still be called “hateful”.

Besides, when I was a kid to be gay was to be happy. The two men down the road were the bachelors. The two ladies were just that two ladies.