Pope calls for end to death penalty out of respect for human dignity

[FAB]

“Calling for an end to the death penalty” is not the same as citing a doctrine that prohibits it. His “call” is a suggestion; it is not mandatory to accept it.
He is not changing the catechism nor does he have to power to do so. He has no authority to invent doctrines.
True. Societies may permit or prohibit capital punishment as they choose. The church allows both positions.
The church’s position is not based on the law of Moses but on the word of God that was given to Noah, and that covenant is in force for all time.
To classify it that way is to claim the church supported cruelty for nearly 2000 years before finally getting it right.
True, he was talking about the development of doctrine. His comment is applicable in all cases.
The church throughout her entire history has identified three instances where life may be lawfully taken.
*“By **man ***shall his blood be shed.” God apparently expects action on our part.
There have always been exceptions to the use of capital punishment. More to the point, the church does not refer to this passage as a basis for her doctrine.

Ender

Dear Ender, your in error on every point,
You seem to be taken a literal interpretation of scripture, which is not how Catholics read or understand scripture, including Mosaic Law, Jesus is the new covenant the fulfillment of God’s promises, and yes the pope saying that the death penalty should be ended is a direct call for all Catholics to work to do just that.

 

[Ender]

That is a bizarre and scary interpretation of scripture. Let me put this before you. THE CHURCH HAS NEVER ADVOCATED FOR THE USE OF THE DEATH PENALTY IN ITS 2000 YEAR HISTORY.

You just make this stuff up as you go along. Giovanni Battista Bugatti, executioner of the Papal States between 1796 and 1865, carried out 516 executions.

But even this is not particularly relevant to the comment I was making to FAB. Try to understand what I say in the context in which I say it.

Ender

 

[Ender]

Dear Ender, your in error on every point

Dear FAB, you are in error on every point. Not a very convincing argument is it?

You seem to be taken a literal interpretation of scripture, which is not how Catholics read or understand scripture…

It is not “my” reading of scripture; that passage, along with Rm 13:1-4 are the bases for the church’s position on capital punishment. As far as reading it literally, how is my response different than your assertion? We both referred to a particular part of Gn 9:5-6 to make a point, so what makes mine a literal interpretation, which is apparently wrong in every instance, from yours…which seemed just as literal? Also, on what basis do you say we should not understand that passage literally? Why should we believe it doesn’t mean exactly what it says? Why is an inventive interpretation a better option?If the Pope were to deny that the death penalty could be an exercise of retributive justice, he would be overthrowing the tradition of two millennia of Catholic thought, denying the teaching of several previous popes, and contradicting the teaching of Scripture (notably in Genesis 9:5-6 and Romans 13:1-4). (Dulles)

Jesus is the new covenant the fulfillment of God’s promises…

Jesus’ position on capital punishment is not as obvious as you seem to believe.Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. (Mt 15:3-4)

How doth the Scripture teach that willful murder is revenged?..* God’s own voice doth testify. (b) Whoever shall shed man’s blood, his blood shall be shed also, for to the image of God was man made. … Christ himself saith also. (e) All that take the sword, shall perish with the sword.*(St. Canisius)

… and yes the pope saying that the death penalty should be ended is a direct call for all Catholics to work to do just that.

Yet it remains a prudential judgment to which Catholics are not obliged to assent.

Ender

 

[LongingSoul]

You just make this stuff up as you go along. Giovanni Battista Bugatti, executioner of the Papal States between 1796 and 1865, carried out 516 executions.

But even this is not particularly relevant to the comment I was making to FAB. Try to understand what I say in the context in which I say it.

Ender

When I reference the ‘Church’, I am always referring to the Magisterium. That means the living Truth attested to by the voices of the papacy for 2000 years since its institution. In that light, we are now aware of what the Inquisitions reflected of Christs truths and what represented the flaws of men. Pope StJPII has made numerous apoloogies for sins committed in the name of the Church and those included the unjust judgements and sentences passed against others by the state authority the Inquisition represented.

We cannot fail to recognize the infidelities to the Gospel committed by some of our brethren, especially during the second millennium. Let us ask pardon for the divisions which have occurred among Christians, for the violence some have used in the service of the truth and for the distrustful and hostile attitudes sometimes taken toward the followers of other religions." - Pope StJPII

If you are using those examples as representative of the teachings of the Magisterium I just shake my head. You really do not understand the nature of the ‘Church’ as in the living Magisterium.

 

[snowdrop]

Pope calls for end to death penalty out of respect for human dignity

A sample:

“It is impossible to imagine that today (there are) states which cannot make use of means other than capital punishment to defend the life of other persons from unjust aggressors,” he said.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which Pope Francis cited in his discourse, “the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” However, in a quote from St. John Paul II cited in the Catechism, such cases, “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”

During his speech, Pope Francis called on “all Christians and people of goodwill … to fight not only for the abolition of the death penalty be it legal or illegal, in all of its forms.” He also called the faithful to work toward “the improvement of prison conditions in the respect of the human dignity of those who have been deprived of freedom,” adding: “I link this to the death sentence.”

The Pope also compared the death penalty to life imprisonment, recalling that the Vatican Penal Code no longer employs life sentences.

“A life sentence is a death sentence which is concealed,” he said.

Subject, The Death Penality,
I always felt the death penalty was too severe. Life in prison without a pardon or parole is suffering enough. Jesus wants all to be saved, that is why he came into the world. When one is sentenced to death that person may not have time to pray and ask for forgiveness. However, If he is sentenced to a life in prison, he may then over time seek from Almighty God forgiveness for the grievous sin he has committed.

 

[Ender]

When one is sentenced to death that person may not have time to pray and ask for forgiveness. However, If he is sentenced to a life in prison, he may then over time seek from Almighty God forgiveness for the grievous sin he has committed.

The last sentence of CCC 2266 is this.Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.(67)
If you look up endnote 67 you will find this reference67)* Lk 23:40-43*
And if you look up that reference you will find that Lk 23:41 is this:And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.”
That is, the church herself points to a case of capital punishment as an example of a punishment that “contributes to the correction of the offender.” If the church accepts it that way why should we see it differently?

Ender

 

[otjm]

Subject, The Death Penality,
I always felt the death penalty was too severe. Life in prison without a pardon or parole is suffering enough. Jesus wants all to be saved, that is why he came into the world. When one is sentenced to death that person may not have time to pray and ask for forgiveness. However, If he is sentenced to a life in prison, he may then over time seek from Almighty God forgiveness for the grievous sin he has committed.

Some years ago in Oregon we had two inmates on death row and one, if not both, in street parlance, committed suicide by public execution by forcing their defenders to withdraw appeals; both indicated that they could not stand life incarceration. It is a sobering thought that someone who might have an appeal which would overturn a death sentence, or at least prolong life for a number of years, would willingly shorten the time and walk into the death chamber.

And for whatever it is worth, I saw today that someone was exonerated of any crime after 26 years in prison, as the DNA evidence showed he was not the perpetrator. One more mark for the efficiency, although not the accuracy, of our system of justice.

I sit on the fence. Some crimes are so savage and so heinous that, given clear proof, I would not get in the way; others leave one to see the inadequacy and randomness of our system of justice.

As to not having time, I cannot recall the name of the wag who said, to effect: there is nothing which will so clarify the mind as to know that one will be hanged at dawn.

There is time. and chaplains are available all through that time. Some people choose a different path.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Some years ago in Oregon we had two inmates on death row and one, if not both, in street parlance, committed suicide by public execution by forcing their defenders to withdraw appeals; both indicated that they could not stand life incarceration. It is a sobering thought that someone who might have an appeal which would overturn a death sentence, or at least prolong life for a number of years, would willingly shorten the time and walk into the death chamber.

And for whatever it is worth, I saw today that someone was exonerated of any crime after 26 years in prison, as the DNA evidence showed he was not the perpetrator. One more mark for the efficiency, although not the accuracy, of our system of justice.

I sit on the fence. Some crimes are so savage and so heinous that, given clear proof, I would not get in the way; others leave one to see the inadequacy and randomness of our system of justice.

As to not having time, I cannot recall the name of the wag who said, to effect: there is nothing which will so clarify the mind as to know that one will be hanged at dawn.

There is time. and chaplains are available all through that time. Some people choose a different path.

That reminds me of something that people who visit inmates have told me. It seems a lot of them never “had a life” outside prison, and are very afraid and plan to get themselves back in soon after they get out. It’s a bad life, but one they seem to understand and prefer to the uncertainty of outside.

 

[4elise]

The Golden Rule also reminds us of our responsibility to protect and defend human life at every stage of its development. This conviction has led me, from the beginning of my ministry, to advocate at different levels for the global abolition of the death penalty. I am convinced that this way is the best, since every life is sacred, every human person is endowed with an inalienable dignity, and society can only benefit from the rehabilitation of those convicted of crimes. Recently my brother bishops here in the United States renewed their call for the abolition of the death penalty. Not only do I support them, but I also offer encouragement to all those who are convinced that a just and necessary punishment must never exclude the dimension of hope and the goal of rehabilitation.

From Pope Francis’ address to Congress 2015