Pope celebrates ad orientem

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ProVobis said:
I agree. Much of the Mass is supposed to be between the priest and God. All I can think of is that is was done for pastoral reasons, as was the vernacular. People want to see and hear what’s going on, including TV cameras. 🙂
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I think it was probably a reactionary measure commensurate with the horrible societal trends and lay expectations of the times. Franciscans have always done VP worship, but that is part of their special, specific spirituality, and I would say their friars are infinitely more educated in spiritual matters than the average layman, and thus know that VP is done out of their special charism and not out of want to make mass about themselves.
 
jimrob said:
If Pope Benedict wants to turn his back on the congregation, that’s his business. You’ve got to have some privileges when you’re the boss. Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I and Pope John Paul II didn’t.
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Do you ever have your back to anyone at Mass? Or do you always sit in the very back pew to make sure you don’t have your back to people?

In the rubrics to Pope Paul’s Missal (the post Vatican II Roman Missal, newly translated into English) it tells the Priest six times to turn and face the people. This implies at the other times he is not facing the people. So who is he facing? The Lord 😃
 
Leon_Bloy said:
Before anybody brings this up, let me re-emphasize that nowhere, nowhere did Vatican II in a single one of its documents - or even those who helped compose the “new” mass of 1970 - suggest that the priest should face towards the people during the Eucharistic prayers
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During what time frame were freestanding altars first recommended, and in what documents?
 
Canto said:
In the rubrics to Pope Paul’s Missal (the post Vatican II Roman Missal, newly translated into English) it tells the Priest six times to turn and face the people.
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No it doesn’t.
 
MarkThompson said:
No it doesn’t.
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The GIRM tells the Priest several times to face the people, for example #124.

If he is facing the people the whole Mass, why bother telling him at various times to face them?

At other times the GIRM tells the Priest to face the altar, for example #158.
 
Canto said:
The GIRM tells the Priest several times to face the people, for example #124.

If he is facing the people the whole Mass, why bother telling him at various times to face them?

At other times the GIRM tells the Priest to face the altar, for example #158.
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Right, it says that certain things are to be done “facing the people,” not, as you had said, for him “to turn and face the people.” The way it is actually written makes no suppositions about the setup of the altar and does not imply that he must turn around from the altar if he is to face the people. As the CDWDS stated (Prot. N. 564/00/L), “Both positions are in accord with liturgical law; both are to be considered correct. . . . (I)t should be borne out in mind there is no preference expressed in the liturgical legislation for either position.”
 
Whenever someone says the priest/Pope (depending on the conversation) “turned his back on the congregation” I always imagine someone sitting with arms crossed and their bottom lip sticking out. Sorry. But that kind of sentiment misses the point. Sadly, God did not make us with a face on each side of our head, so someone has to be looking at hair (or bald spot). Would you rather the Pope “turned his back” on God? If you’re offended by it, how much more offended (and rightfully so) would God be?
 
adopted_heir said:
Whenever someone says the priest/Pope (depending on the conversation) “turned his back on the congregation” I always imagine someone sitting with arms crossed and their bottom lip sticking out. Sorry. But that kind of sentiment misses the point. Sadly, God did not make us with a face on each side of our head, so someone has to be looking at hair (or bald spot). Would you rather the Pope “turned his back” on God? If you’re offended by it, how much more offended (and rightfully so) would God be?
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How can anyone ‘turn their back on God’? That’s ludicrous. God is everywhere.
 
The point being, God is present in the tabernacle. So if the person is offended by the priest’s backside being toward him, how much more appropriate is it that God be offended by being presented with the priest’s backside? If it’s offensive one way, it’s more offensive the other. Right now ad orientem and ad populum are both deemed appropriate. So it’s ludicrous to say with offense that the priest has turned his back on the people (implying betrayal or snubbing) when he is facing Christ present in the tabernacle or Sacrament.
 
But the position of the Tabernacle is irrelevant to Mass. Having the Tabernacle behind the altar does not make Mass more valid, nor does NOT having the Tabernacle there take away from the Mass.

You do know that many churches and Cathedrals do not have the Tabernacle behind the altar?
 
I do know that. And it reminds me very strongly of Mary Magdalene: “They have taken my Lord I know not where.” Instead of the place of honor, His tabernacle is shunted off to the side and, in a parish in my town, is virtually indistinguishable from an electric fuse panel. Where you put your focus absolutely does have an impact on the Mass. For example, is your priest performing for an audience, or leading the Church Militant as an army toward God, their commander-in-chief?
 
adopted_heir said:
I do know that. And it reminds me very strongly of Mary Magdalene: “They have taken my Lord I know not where.” Instead of the place of honor, His tabernacle is shunted off to the side and, in a parish in my town, is virtually indistinguishable from an electric fuse panel. Where you put your focus absolutely does have an impact on the Mass. For example, is your priest performing for an audience, or leading the Church Militant as an army toward God, their commander-in-chief?
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But your focus at Mass should be on the altar, not the Tabernacle.
 
Disagree. The focus at Mass should be on Who resides inside the tabernacle; therefore its position and presence does matter. Otherwise it wouldn’t be sacrilege to keep the Blessed Sacrament in an old shoebox with your bottle cap collection.
 
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