Pope: Clericalism distances the people from the Church

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Cross of Christ writes: "He’s trying to emphasize doing “theology on one’s knees”

No he’s not. I read what he said. He’s not talking about prayer – and he’s not really talking about theology either. He’s talking about clericalism. He thinks it’s misguided and I agree, but I also think that his argument is unfounded. Experience tells me otherwise. I contend that most people do not share his opinion. I question why he feels obliged to level a criticism of this nature at this time.
 
August_Carlson said:
Cross of Christ writes: "He’s trying to emphasize doing “theology on one’s knees”

No he’s not. I read what he said. He’s not talking about prayer – and he’s not really talking about theology either. He’s talking about clericalism. He thinks it’s misguided and I agree, but I also think that his argument is unfounded. Experience tells me otherwise. I contend that most people do not share his opinion. I question why he feels obliged to level a criticism of this nature at this time.
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Perhaps it’s because, as a Pope has said, “We know that clericalism is a temptation for priests in all ages, today as well.”

The solution? From the same Pope:

“A love that leaves itself, which leaves every type of clericalism, of estrangement from the world, and goes to the most marginalized, to the poorest, to those nearing death and totally gives herself up to love of the poor, the marginalized.”
 
CrossofChrist said:
Perhaps it’s because, as a Pope has said, “We know that clericalism is a temptation for priests in all ages, today as well.”

The solution? From the same Pope:

“A love that leaves itself, which leaves every type of clericalism, of estrangement from the world, and goes to the most marginalized, to the poorest, to those nearing death and totally gives herself up to love of the poor, the marginalized.”
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The Pope was Pope Benedict
 
Indeed, Pope Benedict is widely respected. Thank you for bringing this quote to our attention.

In reading it, I find myself liking Pope Benedict’s gentle and non-accusatory manner. He identifies a problem – a problem that has been “a temptation to priests in all ages” and goes on to remind us that love can overcome the clerical spirit and transform the servant to go out “to the most marginalized, to the poorest, to those nearing death and totally gives herself up to love of the poor, the marginalized.” I think that this is a helpful critique.

Contrast Benedict’s generosity of mind and heart with the scathing criticism of clericalism by Pope Francis…

In comparing current day clericalists with the Sanhedrin of Christ’s time, Pope Francis says: “these people had forgotten what it was to be a pastor. They were the intellectuals of religion, those who had the power, who advanced the catechesis of the people with a morality composed by their own intelligence and not by the revelation.”

He goes on: “The evil of clericalism can still be found in the Church today.”

He then accuses the “clericalists” of attacking *“A humble people, discarded and beaten by these people.” *

The article goes on: Even today, the Pope observed, this sometimes happens in the Church. “There is that spirit of clericalism,” he explained: “Clerics feel they are superior, they are far from the people”; they have no time to hear the poor, the suffering, prisoners, the sick” …The evil of clericalism is a very ugly thing! It is a new edition of these people. And the victim is the same: the poor and humble people that awaits the Lord. The Father has always sought to be close to us: He sent His Son. We are waiting, waiting in joyful expectation, exulting. But the Son didn’t join the game of these people: The Son went with the sick, the poor, the discarded, the publicans, the sinners – and that is scandalous – the prostitutes. Today, too, Jesus says to all of us, and even to those who are seduced by clericalism: “The sinners and the prostitutes will go before you into the Kingdom of Heaven.”

This conclusion, that clericalists are “seduced” and that they will have no entry into the Kingdom is, in my opinion, overblown and out of proportion to the problem. Again – review your own experience. Do you see clericalism as being a severe problem in the Church today?

Pope Francis’ repeated reference to the problem makers as *“these people” *is also alarming. It is objectifying the opposition. This can be a dangerous road for the soul to travel. Something seems to be out of sync with our pope. He seems to be more irritable than charitable as his pique become more public. I think prayers are called for – may Our Lord bless our Pope and our Church during this difficult time.
 
August_Carlson said:
Being a Jesuit missionary in Argentina is not the same thing as being the pope.
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No, it is not. That was the point, and it should not be taken as a criticism of Pope Francis. Everyone is subject to the influence of their background and environment. In that way, it does seem the pope’s approach so far has been largely pastoral.

Nevertheless, his time as the Jesuit’s Provincial Superior in Argentina should also be considered as part of his background. In that role, he has acknowledged that his approach was too rigid and authoritarian.
 
August_Carlson said:
Indeed, Pope Benedict is widely respected. Thank you for bringing this quote to our attention.

In reading it, I find myself liking Pope Benedict’s gentle and non-accusatory manner. He identifies a problem – a problem that has been “a temptation to priests in all ages” and goes on to remind us that love can overcome the clerical spirit and transform the servant to go out “to the most marginalized, to the poorest, to those nearing death and totally gives herself up to love of the poor, the marginalized.” I think that this is a helpful critique.

Contrast Benedict’s generosity of mind and heart with the scathing criticism of clericalism by Pope Francis…

In comparing current day clericalists with the Sanhedrin of Christ’s time, Pope Francis says: “these people had forgotten what it was to be a pastor. They were the intellectuals of religion, those who had the power, who advanced the catechesis of the people with a morality composed by their own intelligence and not by the revelation.”

He goes on: “The evil of clericalism can still be found in the Church today.”

He then accuses the “clericalists” of attacking *“A humble people, discarded and beaten by these people.” *

The article goes on: Even today, the Pope observed, this sometimes happens in the Church. “There is that spirit of clericalism,” he explained: “Clerics feel they are superior, they are far from the people”; they have no time to hear the poor, the suffering, prisoners, the sick” …The evil of clericalism is a very ugly thing! It is a new edition of these people. And the victim is the same: the poor and humble people that awaits the Lord. The Father has always sought to be close to us: He sent His Son. We are waiting, waiting in joyful expectation, exulting. But the Son didn’t join the game of these people: The Son went with the sick, the poor, the discarded, the publicans, the sinners – and that is scandalous – the prostitutes. Today, too, Jesus says to all of us, and even to those who are seduced by clericalism: “The sinners and the prostitutes will go before you into the Kingdom of Heaven.”

This conclusion, that clericalists are “seduced” and that they will have no entry into the Kingdom is, in my opinion, overblown and out of proportion to the problem. Again – review your own experience. Do you see clericalism as being a severe problem in the Church today?

Pope Francis’ repeated reference to the problem makers as *“these people” *is also alarming. It is objectifying the opposition. This can be a dangerous road for the soul to travel. Something seems to be out of sync with our pope. He seems to be more irritable than charitable as his pique become more public. I think prayers are called for – may Our Lord bless our Pope and our Church during this difficult time.
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Why do you have a problem with this approach? It’s in the Bible. Jesus did the same. :confused:
 
August_Carlson said:
This conclusion, that clericalists are “seduced” and that they will have no entry into the Kingdom is, in my opinion, overblown and out of proportion to the problem. Again – review your own experience. Do you see clericalism as being a severe problem in the Church today?
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Considering all of the scandals that have impacted the church as of late, and that a great majority of sins do not receive a great level of publicity, yes I do. Not necessarily near where I live, but in the church as a whole.*

As to your mention of his becoming more irritable as of late, I can’t really agree. IMO he has seemed to use very scathing language against hypocrisy in his homilies since he became Pope, probably before then too if I had to guess.

*Please don’t take this to mean a majority within the church, or even a large minority. But enough to make it worth mentioning clericalism to the extent the Pope is.
 
Covert, I don’t have as much a problem with his approach as I do with his target. Do you honestly think that current day prelates, curates and religious represent a modern day Sanhedrin? Are they condemning Christ to die on the cross? If you think that’s what’s going on, make your case. I think the pope has created a clericalist straw man and is attacking it with a club.
 
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