Pope explains why he is going to Assisi-III

[pnewton]

In any case, to get a better understanding, I recommend you read the Catechism section titled “Mixed marriages and disparity of cult”

I have read it through multiple times and taught from it and have a good understanding of the teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter. As a new poster, I would counsel that it is best not to assume anything about the knowledge or education of another.

As to the family, it is a microcosm of society and of the Church. I did not bring up mixed marriages, but they do provide a study in the way that different Christians relate to each other. Two marriage partners that love Jesus have and infinitely more important thing in common than two in a marriage where both or Catholic, but one has little interest in God or Church.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t understand. You make it sound as if the only two options are

1. Try to get along with them
2. Clobber them over the heads with fear of damnation

I certainly am saying the first, but not the second. I don’t believe that anyone should be hurting anyone. I do believe that we have to cotinue to try to dialogue with the Muslims. I was just trying to point out how “in your face” proselytism has never worked.

It does not work when Muslims try to impose Islam on Jews and Christians and it has not worked when Christians have tried to impose Christianity on Jews and Muslims.

The only thing that we have seen work is a ministry of presence, which is what the friars have used in Israel and Jordan for centuries.

This is not an easy nut to crack, because as you correctly say, the Muslim people are very devout and they are very faithful and obedient to their leaders, which would be to their credit if their leaders would leave the violence out of the sermon.

I’m not sure how you and I are suggesting anything different. We’re both talking about the importance of conversion. However, we have to understand that conversion begins with a conversion of manners, before you have a conversion of faith. One begins the process of conversion by shifting worldviews, which leads to a shift in values that regulat behaviors. From there one proceeds to the level of faith.

I’m breaking it down here in a very epigenetic way as we would in a theology class for the sake of explanation. In fact, all of this happens unnoticed by the person and two or more stages may happen simultaneously or they may even overlap. But they are the necessary steps of conversion. The first step is a change in the way one sees the world. For the Muslim, that step is major. They see the world as very hostile and they respond in kind. I believe that their worldview has credibility at one level and many distortions at another.

I beleive that it is true that the world is hostile toward faith of any kind. This part is credible. I do not believe that today’s world is hostile toward Islam alone. This is the part that we need to help them see. If we can deliver this message, we MAY be at the threshold of conversion, because we will have identified a common good, which is the desire for religious freedom from secularism. I truly believe that the real monster that they fear is secularism and as St. Max said, they have come to believe that it is everone who is no Muslim. This is part of what St. Max calls the deformation of truth.

There is a truth here. That truth is that there is a monster out there that is anti faith. The other part of that truth is that the name of the monster is secularism, not Christianity or Judaism. I believe this is what the Friars and now the Comboni Missionaries have found works. In those places where they serve, they are very active in dispelling this misconception of who the monster is.

I do beleive that we must get out among Muslims and do the work of the Gospel. As I have said so much that I think I’ll shut up for now, the only missionaries that I have seen who have had any success are those that have followed the simple method of St. Francis. In Israel and Jordan it has been the Franciscans and the Comboni Sisters. In India and Pakistan it is the Missionaries of Charity and the Franciscans. In Japan it was the Conventual Franciscans (those were Buddhist). This approach takes a long time, great sacrifices and requires a lot of prayer. It’s not an overnight fix, but it seems to have long-term endurance.

I recently met a Trinitarian Friar who just returned from Egypt. He was telling me how his order has adopted the Franciscan method, after many other attempts and it seems to be working better than anything they have done in the past. It’s in its embryonic state. There is nothing big to report other than the fact that the friars are welcome in the community. To do so, they had to change theiir habit. The Trinitarian habit has a Crusader’s cross over the scapular. They had to drop the scapular. When they asked the Frainciscans how was it that they could wear their habit, the Francisans pointed out to the fact that the Franciscan habit has not Christian symbol to it. It’s a brother’s tunic with a cord and cowel, which is an internationally recognized garment in the Middle East and Europe. In the far east, they don’t wear that at all. St. Maximilian introduced the wearing of a garment worn by the local teachers. Only today, with the acceptance of Western clothing, was the traditional habit reintroduced in places like Japan.

I realize that a habit is not as important as terrorism. I’m just pointint out to little steps that have helped open the doors of dialogue. It is very hard. The Holy See realizes this. No one is saying that it is easy. It’s hard work, because the results don’t come quickly. But they do come, slowly and in small pockets at a time.

 

[JReducation]

I remember visiting India, just a short visit to deliver some supplies to the Missionaries of Charity. I was very impressed by the love and respect that the Hindus have for the Missionaries of Charity, both for the sisters and for the brothers. Typical me, I’m very analytical. I observed what was it that they were doing right. I saw several things.

• Great love for the people
• Even greater compassion for their suffering
• Willingness to suffer poverty along with the people
• Adopting many Hindu customs that can be easily incorporated in Christianity, which shows an appreciation for them, rather than a disdain
• A willingness to talk about Jesus without demanding that anyone listen and a willingness to be quiet when asked to do so
• There was wisdom. They knew when to use words and when to speak through action
• Remaining with the pople in the face of danger, even when it cost some of them their lives. This impressed the Hindus that these Christian missionaries were truly Indian
• The avoidance of all things European, they don’t live and worship in European structures, but in what is available locally

From 1946 to today, these practices have gained the trust of the people, Muslims and Hindus. Don’t get me wrong. They still don’t trust most Christians. But they do trust the Missionaries of Charity. Many have converted and become Missionaries of Charity. Many are now serving as Missionaries right here in the USA.

They continue using Francis’ very simple approach. Preach always, but only when necessary use words and avoid argumentation at all costs. If there is an argument, walk away. Come back when you can speak as brothers.

You have made me wonder if there is not a greater need for a concerted effort to send missionaries to these regions to help the Christians in their struggle. I know that the Christians in Israel have always found that the presence of the friars and the sisters has been an inspiration to them, even in times of great hardship. I fear that our Christian brothers and sisters in the Middle East may not have the same intense support as they do in India, Jordan and Israel.

I don’t live there, so I can only speculate based on what I hear and read. Maybe you can shed some light on what the Christians can do to help our Christians in your part of the world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I have read it through multiple times and taught from it and have a good understanding of the teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter. As a new poster, I would counsel that it is best not to assume anything about the knowledge or education of another.

As to the family, it is a microcosm of society and of the Church. I did not bring up mixed marriages, but they do provide a study in the way that different Christians relate to each other. Two marriage partners that love Jesus have and infinitely more important thing in common than two in a marriage where both or Catholic, but one has little interest in God or Church.

I know a couple where the husband is a very devout Lutheran and the wife is a very devout Catholic. They have four children. Two are Capuchin Franciscan Friars, one is a Sister of Mercy. The youngest is a good Catholic mother.

I believe that when there is love of God and love for each other, people can make it work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[passer_by]

I beleive that it is true that the world is hostile toward faith of any kind. This part is credible. I do not believe that today’s world is hostile toward Islam alone. This is the part that we need to help them see. If we can deliver this message, we MAY be at the threshold of conversion, because we will have identified a common good, which is the desire for religious freedom from secularism. I truly believe that the real monster that they fear is secularism and as St. Max said, they have come to believe that it is everone who is no Muslim. This is part of what St. Max calls the deformation of truth.

There is a truth here. That truth is that there is a monster out there that is anti faith. The other part of that truth is that the name of the monster is secularism, not Christianity or Judaism. I believe this is what the Friars and now the Comboni Missionaries have found works. In those places where they serve, they are very active in dispelling this misconception of who the monster is.

**I do beleive that we must get out among Muslims and do the work of the Gospel. **

It’s hard work, because the results don’t come quickly. But they do come, slowly and in small pockets at a time.

I understand what you are stating.

But the thing is, it seems like no one even tries to convert Muslims anymore in Pakistan. There is almost no effort to have dialogue on whether their faith is correct or not. It all seems to be the emphasis of lets get together to fight the secular movements. That is good, but it also has other side effects.

At the end of the day, there are Muslims who actually say that it is a problem with Christianity. In Pakistan, they might have the wrong faith but they hold strong to it. Their governments respect it. The Christian governments don’t. So they see it as a Christian problem that must be solved by introducing Islam.

I have not heard about the conversion steps you said. But I always imagined conversion as first being an intellectual discovery (guided and started by God’s grace of course). I have heard priests in the west who say things like ‘be kind, loving and they will convert’ but it seems so unreasonable. The Muslim people are kind and loving too. They just aren’t kind and loving to us all the time.

For me, I look at the western problem with marriage. The church opposes same sex marriage. The people of the West claim that the church is not loving and understanding because of it. Now if the people were to go by good values that attract them, they would convert to a non-Catholic form of Christianity that allows such things. But they would obviously be wrong to do so. They should have listened to the church to begin with.

Now just interchange the church with an imam and the people with Muslims and the non-Catholic form of Christianity with Catholicism. You would see the dilemma faced by a Muslim. They just can’t simply convert because they like our values and world view.

 

[TrueLight]

I don’t understand. You make it sound as if the only two options are

1. Try to get along with them
2. Clobber them over the heads with fear of damnation

I also believe there is a middle ground.

Spewing hellfire and brimstone does not work except for those who tend to be highly fearful anyway. It is fine to refer to similarities between two religions to show that there are things in common, but at one point one has to convey that that Christianity is the true religion and that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ himself and that all religions are not the same.

A perfect example that we can follow is how Paul approached the pagans in Athens, in Acts 17.

16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.

17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.

18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.”

21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)

22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious.

23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.

26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’** As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

**

 

[pnewton]

I also believe there is a middle ground.

I do not think the question should be considered so much as what is the best approach, such as a reasonable middle ground (as you point out) as a recognition that different approaches are best suited to different circumstances. JR gave two different examples of evangelism by presence and charity, with Muslims and with Hindus. The admonition of Jesus is that they will know we are His disciples, not when we have convincing arguments, but when we love one another. Yet this website exist because dialogue and argument is also an important tool to evangelism. When the Holy Father reaches out to those of other faiths in friendship, that does not preclude the need to also reach out with words, when the time and place is right.

 

[JReducation]

I understand what you are stating.

But the thing is, it seems like no one even tries to convert Muslims anymore in Pakistan. There is almost no effort to have dialogue on whether their faith is correct or not. It all seems to be the emphasis of lets get together to fight the secular movements. That is good, but it also has other side effects…

I think that you have hit the nail on the head right here. This is an approach that the Holy See has warned about as being very delicate, like brain surgery. Many Catholics want the Catholic Church to tell Islam what is wrong with it. I call it a hardsell.

What the Church prefers to do is to establish a dialogue around what we have in common build from there. At some point, you have to reach the things we don’t have in common. At that point, hopefully, you have built a rapport that allows both sides to listen to each other with trust.

I keep calling it the Franciscan method because they were the first to use it, but it’s really the Church’s method, because they Franciscans sold it to the Church and she has made it universal.

I have never been in Pakistan. From what I understand, there is not much of a presence of Catholic missionaries there. Am I correct?

That would be a beginning. This has helped in India, Israel, Jordan and even Japan. The numbers of Catholic missionaries is very high and now they have large numbers of native born religious and clergy.

I also believe there is a middle ground.

Spewing hellfire and brimstone does not work except for those who tend to be highly fearful anyway. It is fine to refer to similarities between two religions to show that there are things in common, but at one point one has to convey that that Christianity is the true religion and that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ himself and that all religions are not the same.
.

This is exactly what the friars tried to teach the bishops in Rome for 800 years. It wasn’t until the 1950s that they finally said, “Oh, now we understand.”

I think that the big obstacle was that they were always thinking that they were dealing with pagans and that they were dealing with an anti-European political force.

The Franciscans finally helped everyone understand that they are not pagans and that the Catholic Church has to stop presenting itself as European. You don’t have to do everything as you do it in Europe. Europe is not the be all and end all of Catholicism.

They were able to prove that they could be very successful when they adopted to the local culture, showed respect for it, and when they lived the Gospel among the people by addressing what is common to all of the local people, which is Palestine, now Israel, was the poverty and other destruction brought on by war. In the areas where they’re located, they have very peaceful co-existence between the three groups and they even have joint services for the people. There are schools, centers, clinics and other services that are jointly run by Muslims, Jews and Catholics, but that’s because they trust the friars and the other missionaries who have come and adopted the same methods.

With this trust is the beginning of a change in worldview. With this comes the first glimpse that maybe the way that we have been taught to see the world is not quite right. Just maybe these Catholics have found something that we have not.

You’d be surprised the number of men and women that approach the missioanries to ask for explanations. Of course, in places where their lives are in danger, they’re not doing to make it public or do it in broad daylight.

Even in a city like New York, the Franciscans of the Renewal have a wonderful relationship with the Muslims in that city. That’s because the friars pray with them, visit their sick, try to help them if they have material needs, invite them to anything that the friars may have, be it a prayer gathering, a talk or a musical presentation (they do a lot of music), they even engage the younger generation to go out to the shelters and walk the streets with them. I believe that they even got some to attend a pro-life rally.

To the best of my knowledge, none of them have become friars or sisters, yet. But they love the friars and by extension, the younger generation is not as suspiscious of other Christians. That’s the begining of a shift. The friars don’t hide the fact that they are Catholic. Heck, they never take off their habits. I like to tease the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal, because their habit does resemble Muslim dress, especially their veil. It’s not European at all. It’s rather neutral, if you ask me.

We’re only at the beginning of a long road. We have to pray, be patient and always be willing to set aside what does not work and find something new. If that does not work, then we set that aside and try something else.

The most important thing is to believe that Divine Providence has a plan. We just have to do the best we can.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

Even in a city like New York, the Franciscans of the Renewal have a wonderful relationship with the Muslims in that city. That’s because the friars pray with them, visit their sick, try to help them if they have material needs, invite them to anything that the friars may have, be it a prayer gathering, a talk or a musical presentation (they do a lot of music), they even engage the younger generation to go out to the shelters and walk the streets with them. I believe that they even got some to attend a pro-life rally.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That sounds like evangelization to me and that’s awesome.

My only question would be when they pray, do they pray in Jesus name, or in the name
of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or do they make it more generic, so as not to offend?

The reformed Christian Church I sing in also has a wonderful relationship with a small mosque that is right next door. So much so, that they sometimes rent out their chapel to them when the uslims need more room.

What do the Muslims think? “Those Christians next door sure are nice!”

But is that evangelization?

 

[JReducation]

That sounds like evangelization to me and that’s awesome.

My only question would be when they pray, do they pray in Jesus name, or in the name
of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or do they make it more generic, so as not to offend?

I have no idea. I would imagine that they use the same format that the popes use, which is to pray to God our Father. I’m only guessing. Though, from the little that I have seen of Islamic prayer, it’s really prallel praying rather than liturigical praying, which is more common to Christians. Obviously, if we’re having a special mass or a profession of vows, we don’t alter the wording to accommodate non Christians. However, we do invite our non-Christian friends. You’d be surprised how many attend and sit through it very politely.

We have a profession of vows with two Muslims and five Jews in attendance. They knew the significance of the profession of vows. They did not know the ritual. After the mass they had many questions about the different parts of the ritual. Those are your preaching moments. At that point, the person is open to listening.

For example, they didn’t understand the reason for the prostration. Nor did they understand the idea behind the Litany of the Saints. They didn’t understand why if the bishop was the presider, the brothers knelt before another brother to profess vows instead of before the bishop. They thought it looked as if the bishop was being ignored. They didn’t understand the change of habit on the sanctuary.

The reformed Christian Church I sing in also has a wonderful relationship with a small mosque that is right next door. So much so, that they sometimes rent out their chapel to them when the uslims need more room.

What do the Muslims think? “Those Christians next door sure are nice!”

But is that evangelization?

Of course it’s evangelization. Evangelization is when you live the Gospel in a visible manner. You don’t have to say much. Remember what you read in The Perfect Joy of St. Francis. Most of what he says, he says with his life, not with his sermons. One reason that he has not been declared a Doctor of the Church is because much of what he taught, he never wrote down. He taught most of it by example. “Let your walking be your preaching.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[At_Trent]

This priest needs to attend Assisi III and speak

youtube.com/watch?v=cSIwBQuImgI&feature=related

 

[TrueLight]

Of course it’s evangelization. Evangelization is when you live the Gospel in a visible manner. You don’t have to say much. Remember what you read in The Perfect Joy of St. Francis. Most of what he says, he says with his life, not with his sermons. One reason that he has not been declared a Doctor of the Church is because much of what he taught, he never wrote down. He taught most of it by example. “Let your walking be your preaching.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I agree, but there is a difference between knowing that a certain religion has nice people and having a desire to actually explore it. Ultimately, it is God who calls souls to him, but are we doing enough to spread the Gospel?

I just feel that certain ecumenical gatherings dilute the Gospel message.

Maybe I’m not seeing the big picture.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m still not convinced that just because they intend to pray to the same God that that means they actually are…

There’s only the One. When we pray, each of us with our individual conceptions of what God IS, we are all not praying to the “real” God. But of course, we all, no matter who we are, must be praying to the real God, because there’s only One God to be prayed to.

 

[TrueLight]

There’s only the One. When we pray, each of us with our individual conceptions of what God IS, we are all not praying to the “real” God. But of course, we all, no matter who we are, must be praying to the real God, because there’s only One God to be prayed to.

Do Wiccans pray to the same God when they pray to the Lord and Lady?

How about Pagans who honor Sekhmet, the lion headed “mistress of death and dread who gives life eternally…”?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Do Wiccans pray to the same God when they pray to the Lord and Lady?

Wicca is a modern invention, however, let’s look at the Lord and Lady:

Wicca is typically a duotheistic religion, worshipping a goddess and a god, who are traditionally viewed as the Triple Goddess and Horned God. These two deities are often viewed as being facets of a greater pantheistic godhead, and as manifesting themselves as various polytheistic deities.

How about Pagans who honor Sekhmet, the lion headed “mistress of death and dread who gives life eternally…”?

Sekhmet, srsly? Why not Hera? Or Odin?

Yes, if people are praying to what they conceive as Divine and searching for Truth, whether they pray to a sacred bush or a lion-headed image or an old man on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, there is only One God and so they can only be praying to that One God.

No conception of God by humans is accurate. There’s just the One God. Jesus gives us the closest Image we can come to. But people seem to reinvent Jesus to fit with what they want God to be rather than what Jesus showed us.

And when someone prays to Jesus and asks Him to send a plague on their neighbor because they hate that neighbor, they aren’t praying to God at all.

 

[TrueLight]

Wicca is a modern invention, however, let’s look at the Lord and Lady:

Sekhmet, srsly? Why not Hera? Or Odin?

Yes, if people are praying to what they conceive as Divine and searching for Truth, whether they pray to a sacred bush or a lion-headed image or an old man on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, there is only One God and so they can only be praying to that One God.

No conception of God by humans is accurate. There’s just the One God. Jesus gives us the closest Image we can come to. But people seem to reinvent Jesus to fit with what they want God to be rather than what Jesus showed us.

And when someone prays to Jesus and asks Him to send a plague on their neighbor because they hate that neighbor, they aren’t praying to God at all.

If we look at it that way, then anything can be seen as a misguided effort to worship God. The people who worshiped Baal in the Bible, also were looking for truth. Yet God did not spare them, nor did he tell the Jews to spare them.

Neither should we spare those who believe in other deities from knowing the truth.

 

[Irish_Polock]

Wicca is a modern invention, however, let’s look at the Lord and Lady:

Sekhmet, srsly? Why not Hera? Or Odin?

Yes, if people are praying to what they conceive as Divine and searching for Truth, whether they pray to a sacred bush or a lion-headed image or an old man on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, there is only One God and so they can only be praying to that One God.

No conception of God by humans is accurate. There’s just the One God. Jesus gives us the closest Image we can come to. But people seem to reinvent Jesus to fit with what they want God to be rather than what Jesus showed us.

And when someone prays to Jesus and asks Him to send a plague on their neighbor because they hate that neighbor, they aren’t praying to God at all.

Really?

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Please get back to the OP: the Pope’s satement.

Thank You

 

[Julia_Mae]

If we look at it that way, then anything can be seen as a misguided effort to worship God.

No, “anything” cannot. A distinction I made in my post.

And this is off point. The point is: there is only One God. It is simply impossible for anyone to be praying to some other God, as there is only the One.

It is possible, IMO, for people to be praying to nothing, themselves or the Liar when their intent is evil. It is also, IMO, quite common for atheists to be “praying” to God in an earnest search for the good.

So, to bring this back to the OP:

What should we do, as a Church, in the person of our Pope, in terms of ecumenical gatherings? If the intent of the gathering is to seek the good, to seek peace, brotherhood, understanding, then all are seeking God, the One.

If the Pope goes to share in this seeking, then he brings the quest for God and, and this is important, the prayers of all the faithful with him. That’s powerful. Let’s not be withholding those prayers because we think we might know better what should be done.

 

[JReducation]

There’s only the One. When we pray, each of us with our individual conceptions of what God IS, we are all not praying to the “real” God. But of course, we all, no matter who we are, must be praying to the real God, because there’s only One God to be prayed to.

Do Wiccans pray to the same God when they pray to the Lord and Lady?

How about Pagans who honor Sekhmet, the lion headed “mistress of death and dread who gives life eternally…”?

Wicca is a modern invention, however, let’s look at the Lord and Lady:

Sekhmet, srsly? Why not Hera? Or Odin?

Yes, if people are praying to what they conceive as Divine and searching for Truth, whether they pray to a sacred bush or a lion-headed image or an old man on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, there is only One God and so they can only be praying to that One God.

No conception of God by humans is accurate. There’s just the One God. Jesus gives us the closest Image we can come to. But people seem to reinvent Jesus to fit with what they want God to be rather than what Jesus showed us.

And when someone prays to Jesus and asks Him to send a plague on their neighbor because they hate that neighbor, they aren’t praying to God at all.

If we look at it that way, then anything can be seen as a misguided effort to worship God. The people who worshiped Baal in the Bible, also were looking for truth. Yet God did not spare them, nor did he tell the Jews to spare them.

Neither should we spare those who believe in other deities from knowing the truth.

Really?

No, “anything” cannot. A distinction I made in my post.

And this is off point. The point is: there is only One God. It is simply impossible for anyone to be praying to some other God, as there is only the One.

It is possible, IMO, for people to be praying to nothing, themselves or the Liar when their intent is evil. It is also, IMO, quite common for atheists to be “praying” to God in an earnest search for the good.

Actually, there is a very logical answer to this question, but it’s 150+ pages long, because it’s a very long philosophical and theological treatise. You all have pieces of that treatise, but are missing a lot of it too . . . with all due respect.

I won’t even attempt to try to summarize it to fit into this thread, because it’s really a whole subject and I guess we have to stick to the pope’s statement.

If you want to know how the Church speaks about non-Judeo Christian and non-Muslim worship, you really should read Crossing The Threshold of Hope by Bl. John Paul II. He gives a doctrinally sound and philosophically precise answer. He actually takes the different classes of religious beliefs and addresses them individually. He tells you what is Christian about them and what is lacking. If you read the book, pay attention to the sytem that he uses, then apply the system to this question, you’ll find the answer.

Much of Catholicism is taught through principles, systems and methods. Not everything has been written down in papal or conciliar documents. Even when we prepare for our degrees in theology, throughout the entire program we are tuaght methods, systems, a priori concepts and postulates. When you take an exam, a professor may ask you to explain Original Sin and you had better not give him the quote from the Baltimore Catechism or you’ll fail. He wants to see you take the whole thing from the beginning, put it through the system, using the right method and arrive as the same conclusion as the Church. If you arrive someplace else, then you’re not a good theologian, because you can’t use the tools.

To answer this question correctly and completely, you need tools. They are not many or difficult. Pope John Paul does a good job in this work. Check it out.

Here is a link to answers to some of these questions. WARNING; Some of it is deliberately very technical. Don’t ask me why, because I don’t know the answer.

monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=555

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF