Pope Francis’ Remarks Disappoint Gay and Transgender Groups

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youngsterat16 said:
nytimes.com/2016/08/04/world/europe/pope-francis-remarks-disappoint-gay-and-transgender-groups.html
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People are finally starting to figure out that the “Cool Pope” image the press had latched on to and pushed, was not entirely accurate. Francis is still the Catholic Pope and still going to stand behind Catholic doctrine and teaching which they abhor.

What will be interesting if this dawning continues is if the press and others in the more liberal world start to sour on Francis as they were clearly sour on Benedict almost from his election.
 
Padres1969 said:
People are finally starting to figure out that the “Cool Pope” image the press had latched on to and pushed, was not entirely accurate. Francis is still the Catholic Pope and still going to stand behind Catholic doctrine and teaching which they abhor.

What will be interesting if this dawning continues is if the press and others in the more liberal world start to sour on Francis as they were clearly sour on Benedict almost from his election.
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Well, I think it should be obvious that the Catholic Pope is not going to be pro-gay marriage, pro-transgender surgery, and pro-abortion. He’s the Pope, not the liberal governor, nor the friendly liberal guy next door.
 
Hatikvah said:
Well, I think it should be obvious that the Catholic Pope is not going to be pro-gay marriage, pro-transgender surgery, and pro-abortion. He’s the Pope, not the liberal governor, nor the friendly liberal guy next door.
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You’d be surprised how many people didn’t understand that and thought Francis was going to bring the Catholic Church into modernity kicking and screaming. Early on in his pontificate I had people I know who are openly hostile to religion who were singing his praises. They all seemingly forgot or didn’t understand he’s still a Catholic Pope and what that entails. To be fair to them however, there are many Catholics I’ve spoken to since his election that fell into that trap as well and thought Francis was going to do the same despite doctrine.

As a former Catholic it always made me laugh in both directions, since I knew as good of a man Francis is, for as much as he walks the walk regarding the poor, etc… he was still going to uphold Catholic doctrine. The Pope will always uphold Catholic doctrine, it’s what he does. Regardless of how seemingly personable and gregarious, or seemingly academic and distant they may be.
 
The media is no longer your friend. It distorts what the Church tells us. Pope Francis made one remark and the LGBT press made it sound like the Church was going to change - it can’t. The New York Times is a very good example of this. It’s Left-leaning. liberal agenda is crystal clear. But some people, either unknowing or unbelieving that the secular press could distort the truth, including some Catholics, were thinking “The press won’t lie to me.” They were wrong. The secular media can and will manipulate people.

Ed
 
And there is a significant and contradicting point to all this that the LGBT group often fails to get.

The argument is that homosexually as an orientation cannot be changed, and to a large degree the Church has backed down from forcing a belief that it can. “People are born that way,” goes the saying about gays and lesbians, and there is some data in medical and scientific studies to support this view to some extent.

At the same time, the same LGBT community says that gender CAN be changed. For some reason it is wrong to change a gay person becuase they were “born that way,” but it is okay to change the gender of a person even though they too were “born that way”? Which is it?

I’m not saying the science is in that totally supports the gay argument of being “born that way,” but if it is true, then isn’t it wrong to change one’s gender you are also born with?

I can deal with the “born that way” argument for gays, and I will give them that. Don’t change them. Don’t change such a major factor you are born with. It is wrong to do so.

But if they want that support, the “free to be any gender you choose” argument falls flat.
 
I’m relieved to see Pope Francis coming out strongly on these issues.
 
CeelosDeznos said:
And there is a significant and contradicting point to all this that the LGBT group often fails to get.

The argument is that homosexually as an orientation cannot be changed, and to a large degree the Church has backed down from forcing a belief that it can. “People are born that way,” goes the saying about gays and lesbians, and there is some data in medical and scientific studies to support this view to some extent.

At the same time, the same LGBT community says that gender CAN be changed. For some reason it is wrong to change a gay person becuase they were “born that way,” but it is okay to change the gender of a person even though they too were “born that way”? Which is it?

I’m not saying the science is in that totally supports the gay argument of being “born that way,” but if it is true, then isn’t it wrong to change one’s gender you are also born with?

I can deal with the “born that way” argument for gays, and I will give them that. Don’t change them. Don’t change such a major factor you are born with. It is wrong to do so.

But if they want that support, the “free to be any gender you choose” argument falls flat.
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Well the argument isn’t that gender can change, it’s that the gender they’re born with doesn’t match the sex they’re born with. So not a contradiction.
 
That NY Times article linked in the OP also quotes Rev. Thomas J. Reese, S.J. as if he were some type of authority on the matter.

One would be well advised to avoid putting much stock in what (can presently only be a deluded) Fr Thomas J Reese, has to say. He writes now for The National Catholic Reporter , which - contrary to its gross misnomer is an anti-Catholic publication that frequently churns out dissent against the Magisterium.

His latest offering would appear to suggest that several of the cerebral screws pertaining to the assent of faith may no longer be torqued down all the way to specifications - he is championing the ordination of women to the Catholic ministerial priesthood. . . :ouch: . . . Here

We need to stay awake and pray .:sad_yes:
 
Of course the Pope is only communicating the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. Like protestants though they separate Jesus from His Church in order to ‘blame’ the Church. Most of the time liberals are guilty of this but a recent example is Chris Christie when he said he and his wife do not follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. Uh…it’s a teaching of Jesus gov.
 
William F. Buckley — ‘Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.’

Ed
 
johnnyc176 said:
Of course the Pope is only communicating the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church.** Like protestants though they separate Jesus from His Church in order to ‘blame’ the Church.** Most of the time liberals are guilty of this but a recent example is Chris Christie when he said he and his wife do not follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. Uh…it’s a teaching of Jesus gov.
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Irrelevant and a little… eh? We cannot make certain overzealous Protestants the issue because they are not the entirety of moral ignorance. People of all denominations or branches or traditions, etc, can be morally ignorant or flat-out in denial. (Referring to the bolded text above.)

The truth of the matter is, very few Catholics care about the Church’s “newer” teachings that apply more than ever to today’s world (e.g., gay unions/homosexuality, contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc). We can go on. There are, luckily, pious Catholics and other Christians left, and perhaps the Church’s promotion of morality as it has been doing lately will reach out. Hopefully so.
 
Yeah the backlash against Francis is beginning as I suspected it would. Francis had a prolonged honeymoon period with those typically critical of the Catholic Church and the Papacy. They seemingly mistook his acts of personal humility, mercy, and compassion as wholesale signs the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church were about to change en masse. I suspect in the coming months and years as Francis holds the traditional Catholic line on social and moral issues that you’ll see the press begin to turn on him further.

thinkprogress.org/pope-calls-teaching-about-gender-identity-ideological-colonization-e2207eaf5784#.ik7gvmxkd
 
Padres1969 said:
…

What will be interesting if this dawning continues is if the press and others in the more liberal world start to sour on Francis as they were clearly sour on Benedict almost from his election.
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No, they’ll simply stop covering his statements/positions on those issues and play up his views comments on others. Use him as a useful idiot in pushing ‘social justice’ issues from a regressive left direction.
 
He is not going to go against Church teaching in order to please the New World Order. That would be giving in to Satan’s plan. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.
 
CeelosDeznos said:
And there is a significant and contradicting point to all this that the LGBT group often fails to get.

The argument is that homosexually as an orientation cannot be changed, and to a large degree the Church has backed down from forcing a belief that it can. “People are born that way,” goes the saying about gays and lesbians, and there is some data in medical and scientific studies to support this view to some extent.

At the same time, the same LGBT community says that gender CAN be changed. For some reason it is wrong to change a gay person becuase they were “born that way,” but it is okay to change the gender of a person even though they too were “born that way”? Which is it?

I’m not saying the science is in that totally supports the gay argument of being “born that way,” but if it is true, then isn’t it wrong to change one’s gender you are also born with?

I can deal with the “born that way” argument for gays, and I will give them that. Don’t change them. Don’t change such a major factor you are born with. It is wrong to do so.

But if they want that support, the “free to be any gender you choose” argument falls flat.
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Science and facts only matter when LGBT advocates say it matters.
 
From the article:

L.G.B.T. leaders said Wednesday that the pope had failed to grasp that one’s gender identity is discovered, often at a very young age, not chosen.

So true, but only in the sense that these leaders fail to grasp that gender identity is a modern opinion, an hypothesis, and not a fact. Too many people are so rooted in their own smug superiority that they raise their petty world views to a standard of truth by which they measure others. By any definition or understanding divorced from the gay rights agenda, the concept of transgenderism is at best a speculation, at worse, a mental illness.
 
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