Pope Francis and negativity

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Emeraldlady

New member
I feel the negativity towards Pope Francis very painfully. My young adult children are involved in the Catholic community which is wonderful in our diocese. The problem is they often hear negativity about Pope Francis from some quarters of that community (not the clergy or the nuns) and I find I have a fiery passion to diffuse those ideas for the sake of their faith.

When I was growing up in the Church, no one ever had such opinions about Popes. Our place is to trust that the Holy Spirit has that side of things in hand and even if there was a bad Pope, we are called to listen and follow in the protection of the Holy Spirit.

So I remind my kids of that one important thing. We never need to worry because of Jesus promise never to abandon the Church. We are perfectly safe to follow Pope Francis’ guidance. He is guiding us in the ways of love which is after all the primary of all virtues.

1 Cor 13 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

There has been a real negativity towards love in some quarters of Catholicism and efforts to make love be something other than it really is but I believe that Pope Francis has been a great eschatological guide in what love of others, even ‘enemies’, entails.

1 Cor 13 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.
 
I never claimed I did. But all one has to do is look at who he surrounds himself with and what they say and their views. Almost all of his cohort have views radically outside those of the Church, whether they be openly supporting abortions, having gay masses, support women’s ordinations, etc which you can find anywhere online. It’s not a conspiracy: they have put it out there plain as day. Just search McCarrick and it’ll come up. Not to mention that Cardinal Burke outed Francis in front of the whole world, and had nothing to gain from it and as a result, he lost everything.
 
Last edited:
I’d have to guess this forum is less impressed by Francis just by its make up. If he was involved in cover ups, and I almost assume every diocese has, he has inherited the entire Church’s problems. He is certainly doing more to address it than I think his predecessors have. I don’t know if it’s enough, but then the damage has been done. Only a record of addressing the issue head on will be able to move things, prayers are not enough.

The one thing that has to be said, whatever you think about his actions, is that he is very popular with many people outside the Catholic world. He is obviously the head of the Catholic Church, but he also is the defacto public image of Christianity. His unpretentious style and even mulling about theology outside a stuffy publication is very refreshing to many.
 
If he can dish it out, he can take it
 
Last edited:
padrepio_2012 said:
I think a grave error committed these days is that people often equate love with being kind. Being kind is not love. Love has many forms. The father who gets upset at his child for being out late on a school night certainly is acting with love, even though it may not sound nice.
Click to expand...
But you’re saying that but I’m reading now from 1 Corinthians that love is kind.

1 Cor 13 4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

So we are given a fairly comprehensive explanation of what love is. This is what I mean when I have to explain this errors that are coming from some quarters of the Church to my my kids. They have to take the Scripture over other opinions.
padrepio_2012 said:
. It is true that the Holy Spirit guides the Church and keeps the Pope infallible (certainly not impeccable) and we are to respect him as pope (maybe more so the office), but I believe if he has been involved in or committed heinous sins, we cannot ignore this. And from everything I’ve heard and read (up to and including our parish priest and his brother who work in the Vatican), Pope Francis is not a good man and is involved in dark affairs, himself having been accused by his own clergy of cover ups.
Click to expand...
Again, those are accusations in the form of Chinese whispers rather than facts and evidence. Pope Francis life has really been an open book as a shining light in Argentina. Many very good and holy Bishops around the world who are on the inside, have great faith in him and I trust in that fact.
padrepio_2012 said:
We do not have to like the pope. We can have negative opinions of him, especially if he is doing wrong. We are to call it as it is and speak up. There is nothing in our faith that says we must like him. And if he is trying to undermine the Church and is in fact working against her, this is even more cause for alarm. Perhaps people in the past did not speak negatively of the popes they had because they were blessed with Godly ones. But I will say that I do not like Francis and believe the Church is going to go through some terrible times here. Christ will never abandon his Church, but that certainly doesn’t mean that every pope is going to be good and lead the flock closer to Christ, or that the Church will not have to suffer.
Click to expand...
But who actually is ‘calling it as it is’? There just seems to be Chinese whispers and allusions without facts and evidence.
 
Last edited:
PJH_74 said:
I’d have to guess this forum is less impressed by Francis just by its make up. If he was involved in cover ups, and I almost assume every diocese has, he has inherited the entire Church’s problems. He is certainly doing more to address it than I think his predecessors have. I don’t know if it’s enough, but then the damage has been done. Only a record of addressing the issue head on will be able to move things, prayers are not enough.

The one thing that has to be said, whatever you think about his actions, is that he is very popular with many people outside the Catholic world. He is obviously the head of the Catholic Church, but he also is the defacto public image of Christianity. His unpretentious style and even mulling about theology outside a stuffy publication is very refreshing to many.
Click to expand...
To me in terms of the eschatological mission of the Church, this fact seems very much Holy Spirit driven. God called everyone to salvation through Christ without distinction and it is entirely reasonable that in this End Times evangelisation that the Church would “Enlarge the place of your tent, stretch your tent curtains wide, do not hold back; lengthen your cords, strengthen your stakes.” (Is 54 2)
 
Flopfoot said:
If he can dish it out, he can take it
Click to expand...
That is the sentiment that worries me as to how it affects my kids faith in the Church. I know that the Apostles in the early Church had disagreements but for the lay people, not respecting the authority of the ‘pillars’ would be a sign of willful disobedience.
 
Emeraldlady said:
To me in terms of the eschatological mission of the Church, this fact seems very much Holy Spirit driven.
Click to expand...
There’s a lot of legalism here, but it is often forgotten why the pastoral touch is almost everything. I’d have to ask, even the most doctrinally conservative people here, how much of your faith affected by “that one” priest?
 
Last edited:
Regardless of who is Pope, there’s always somebody who thinks he knows better than the Pope, is more correct than the Pope, etc.
It shouldn’t be a surprise given that when Jesus was walking around on earth, he got the exact same treatment from the supposedly “holiest” groups of people, and they pretty much found fault with everything he did.
 
padrepio_2012 said:
And from everything I’ve heard and read (up to and including our parish priest and his brother who work in the Vatican), Pope Francis is not a good man and is involved in dark affairs, himself having been accused by his own clergy of cover ups.
Click to expand...
It’s fine if you just don’t like the Pope, but to accuse him of wrongdoing based on hearsay is a bit much.
 
The original translation of that Corinthians reading uses “charity” not “love”

Thomist Peter Kreeft on love as kindness: “That’s a misunderstanding of love. Love fights. Love cares. Love discriminates. When you love someone, you hate all the dehumanizing forces that are harmful to that person, like a doctor who hates the cancer that’s killing his beloved patient. So the essence of this heresy is that there is no such thing as sin. That we are all perfect. And that’s Phariseeism. And it brings up one of the most terrifying passages in the Bible where Jesus essentially says to Pharisees ‘I’m not here for you. I didn’t come here for you. I’m irrelevant to you. I came here to save sick people. You’re not sick? Goodbye.’ “
 
I’m quite critical of Pope Francis. We live in a different world. One where the Pope himself engages press on an airplane, has a Twitter account and where other bishops publically put forth questions, criticisms, and theological musings. This is a different animal than how the church led and taught its followers for thousands of years. And there is a vast literate and educated flock in the first world. Also, the dont criticize the Pope or even the parish priest mentality in my opinion has led to an environment in which abuse has flourished. I also think when the Pope weighs in on political matters such as communism and walls. Offers opinions on birth control for Zika areas etc. This is indeed open to criticism and honestly I think the Pope himself encourages it. At least his apparent philosophy does. My children are raised in a traditional Catholic household. Homeschooled with Catholic curriculum and I’m quite confident it teaches them good theology to see and engage in criticism. And to see their parents do so as well. I think a true Catholic schooled in the faith and believing in Jesus Christ, aware of history and present is able and right to criticize this Pope or any pope.
 
Emeraldlady said:
I feel the negativity towards Pope Francis very painfully.
Click to expand...
Don’t let it get you down @Emeraldlady .

We live in an age when many Catholics assume the role of Pope .

Many who teach obedience to authority but themselves disdain authority .

I would be a little concerned if Pope Francis was not getting some stick from his fellow Catholics .

Jesus did say , " “Blessed are you when people insult you.”
 
I like pope francis, but I respect your opinion.

Just a musing on your other point. I grew up in a home in which my parents regularly critisised the priests in the parish. As a result, I was basicly brought up to not trust the advice given to me by most priests unless they were very orthodox (and you had to go out of your way to find one of those). And the result of THAT was that my parents’ version of Catholicism was the one that I considered kosher. It was actually this forum that made me realise, for example, that I could go to mass on a Saturday evening instead of Sunday for any reason.

That’s not actually an argument against what you said or anything. It’s merely a related musing. I just find it interesting that, so often on this site, we advise people to speak to a priest about their issue, which is advice that I myself would not have taken because I wouldn’t trust the priest.
 
Emeraldlady said:
I feel the negativity towards Pope Francis very painfully. My young adult children are involved in the Catholic community which is wonderful in our diocese. The problem is they often hear negativity about Pope Francis from some quarters of that community (not the clergy or the nuns) and I find I have a fiery passion to diffuse those ideas for the sake of their faith.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s appropriate for adults involved in youth ministry to speak in this way during their work.
That said, a few comments about the Pope shouldn’t have a serious affect on their faith.
Emeraldlady said:
When I was growing up in the Church, no one ever had such opinions about Popes. Our place is to trust that the Holy Spirit has that side of things in hand and even if there was a bad Pope, we are called to listen and follow in the protection of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
It’s a different faith. Years ago not many Catholics were educated in theology and philosophy. Today that number is much greater.
With respect, while it may be your view that we don’t comment or voice concerns about a Pope’s actions, I don’t believe we are “not allowed” to comment on, or be worried about the state of the Church.
Emeraldlady said:
There has been a real negativity towards love in some quarters of Catholicism and efforts to make love be something other than it really is
Click to expand...
You’ll have to support this statement or expand on it a bit. It’s a bit vague.
 
IMO, the biggest issue with the Pope and with modern Catholicism is that everything is all about “mercy”. Very little is said about justice or respect for the Lord.

If anything there’s been a little too much mercy in the Church in recent times, to such an extent that actually telling someone “you can’t receive the Eucharist because you voted/campaigned for allowing babies to be murdered in their mother’s wombs”, is considered to be “unchristian”.

Or saying that “you are in a state of adultery, therefore can’t receive”.

There’s this view out there that everyone should be included, even if their lives and actions are directly at odds with the Church’s teaching.
Too many Catholics just don’t care about Church Teaching and think we should be these nice, accepting people who keep our beliefs to ourselves.

Sorry but that’s not real Catholicism.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top