Pope Francis and negativity

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

That kindness is not actually a virtue?

Quote me saying that

No. I asking for clarification from you. Scripture describes love as ‘kind’ as one of it’s prime characteristics. You have concluded that acceptance is the same as kindness, hence not what love is about.

 

[Aquinas11]

asking for clarification from you.

You asserted kindness isn’t a virtue so perhaps you can clarify why you believe that. Then I can respond to your clarification

 

[Gab123]

I have always found it interesting that Fulton Sheen in his memoirs recalls during his childhood some neighbor sitting at the dinner table ripping St. Pius X, Pope at the time, for allowing children Communion.

Interesting. The problem today is that many people live inside YouTube bubbles and online gossip. Those who attack Pope Francis, demanding he resign are dupes of the devil.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

I never claimed I did. But all one has to do is look at who he surrounds himself with and what they say and their views. Almost all of his cohort have views radically outside those of the Church, whether they be openly supporting abortions, having gay masses, support women’s ordinations, etc which you can find anywhere online. It’s not a conspiracy: they have put it out there plain as day. Just search McCarrick and it’ll come up. Not to mention that Cardinal Burke outed Francis in front of the whole world, and had nothing to gain from it and as a result, he lost everything.

Because you can trust everything you read online. I have the same problem with people whom blindly follow Fox News or CNN.

You must also keep in mind that his opinions on the wall, on social justice, on climate change, or on the death penalty are NOT infallible statements that cannot be overturned by another pope. Actually, with the exception of canonizing saints, he hasn’t really done any infallible pronouncements.

 

[Crusader13]

Crusader13:

McCarrick was beyond any help of the hierarchy, the evidence was so overwhelmingly against McCarrick that it doesn’t require much trust in hoping that he did the right thing, to do anything else would’ve been foolish.

Agreed… it looks very bad for the previous popes, Viganò and others in the hierarchy dating back to the 80’s to have not taken action on McCarrick.

Thankfully Pope Francis was strong enough to take the necessary action.

I’m not sure just how much JPII knew about McCarrick and his actions and I know Benedict imposed restrictions on McCarrick that, according to Viganò, Francis lifted. So I’m not sure McCarrick’s actions and the collusion that covered them up, is going to fall squarely on the previous hierarchies. McCarrick is simply a cog in the wheel of a machine that has been in operation for decades. And I have yet to see any action from this papacy that would tell me they are serious about dismantling it.

 

[ConstantlyConverting]

The scariest thing about Pope Francis is that if you actually read his writings and listen to his homilies, he literally, is the closest example to that of the teachings of Christ in the Bible.

And the fact that a large swath of devout Catholics completely, either dismiss him or even worse condemn him is frighting. The fact that they cant see that they sound exactly like the Scribes and Pharisees when addressing their issues with Francis is mind boggling.

 

[godisgood77]

I know Benedict imposed restrictions on McCarrick that, according to Viganò, Francis lifted.

I find this to only support the case that Francis has been tougher on sex abuse than his predecessors.

Yes, Viganò and Benedict knew the details of McCarrick’s escapades and supposedly imposed some light restrictions… that weren’t enforced - In fact there is a well circulated photo of Viganò happily embracing McCarrick at a public event after the supposed sanctions were imposed.

Francis defrocked McCarrick on the other hand

Francis also convened a worldwide meeting of all bishops conference leaders to address the problems abuse problems. He did so in public - a stark change did for a church that historically has loved to keep private, very private.

Major steps for change by Pope Francis

 

[Canvas]

One where the Pope himself engages press on an airplane, has a Twitter account and where other bishops publically put forth questions, criticisms, and theological musings. This is a different animal than how the church led and taught its followers for thousands of years.

The first Pope to have a Twitter account was Pope Benedict XVI.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/12/world/europe/vatican-pope-twitter/index.html

When Pius XI first broadcast by radio, it was a novelty as well. Most Catholics had never heard the voice of a Pope.

 

[SteelArchangel]

I see this a lot on Catholic social media sites in the comments.

Even an innocent remark by Pope Francis is condemned by many Catholics who I notice call him “Bergoglio”.

They follow up whatever he says by saying, “Yeah sure, more of the same from Bergoglio”.

 

[Flopfoot]

The internet is part of the problem, the pope can no longer control which of the things he says reach a global audience. If he’s addressing a group of doctors and happens to mention abortion on the side, it’s going to be all over your facebook page that same day. There is a saying “familiarity breeds contempt”. If you’re hearing as many words directly from the pope as you hear from your parish priest each week, you might be equally critical of both, even though the pope’s job is to look after the church as a whole and not just your little parish

 

[Seanthompson]

You’re right, he is very popular with the world. However, like the scriptures say, whoever is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. So we don’t want to use popularity as a borometer.

 

[Crusader13]

Francis defrocked McCarrick on the other hand

Francis also convened a worldwide meeting of all bishops conference leaders to address the problems abuse problems. He did so in public - a stark change did for a church that historically has loved to keep private, very private.

Major steps for change by Pope Francis

Well nothing in the past happened 20-30 years has happened to a member or members of the clergy, like what happened with McCarrick. At least not with the same level of public knowledge. When the Boston Globe broke their story, it was a shock to many and the laity still rallied around the clergy hoping that much of what had taken place was truly a thing of the past.

Now almost 20 years later, we’ve found out that men like McCarrick were not only left in place, but the entire infrastructure which led to the coverup was untouched. There was no changes made and none of the wicked clergy were brought to light, except those whose misdeeds were brought to light by the secular media.

Much in the same way as McCarrick. Therefore, with so much pressure and outcry by both those within and outside the church, it was easy for McCarrick to become the face of the scandal and for Pope Francis to appear tough on sex abuse by defrocking him.

And how long did that take?!?! Most of what has come to light did so back in the middle of 2018. And that was just when the public found out about it. If what Viganò said was true, then Pope Francis was made aware of what had transpired very early in his papacy. Yet it’s taken him over four years to take any action. And it was done only after the media, mainly Catholic media, started digging into the corruption and only after Viganò had the courage to come forward.

Yet there were still men close to Francis, like Cupich & Wuerl, for example who were trying their best to deflect and downplay the crisis. Pope Francis wouldn’t even comment on the charges made by Viganò and I’m supposed to be comforted by this recent conference, where neither the collusion nor coverup were even addressed.

 

[Bixby]

I must admit to being no fan of our current Pope, but I do pray for him daily, and take great exception with traditional types who insist on referring to him as “Bergoglio”. I find this deeply disrespectful.

 

[blackforest]

That’s a mighty audacious claim! Can you seriously think your curriculum could put you up there with the theological expertise and historical knowledge of the Magisterium?

I’m a Catholic homeschooler and run into this mentality a LOT among my peers. It’s frustrating, to say the least, but I cannot let myself get as bitter toward them as they get toward Pope Francis.

Is it sedevacantism to claim that our Church has been “hijacked” by his papacy? Because that’s among one of the more outrageous claims that I’ve heard.

We live in a different world. One where the Pope himself engages press on an airplane, has a Twitter account and where other bishops publically put forth questions, criticisms, and theological musings. This is a different animal than how the church led and taught its followers for thousands of years.

How is this a criticism of Pope Francis? Technology has changed, and he now has access to a broader channel to spread our Church’s message. Is this his fault somehow?

Also, the dont criticize the Pope or even the parish priest mentality in my opinion has led to an environment in which abuse has flourished.

Criticizing and gossiping about His Holiness isn’t going to stop sexual abuse. Are you seriously claiming that those who respect Pope Francis and acknowledge him as Peter’s successor condone sexual abuse among clergy?

I also think when the Pope weighs in on political matters such as communism and walls. Offers opinions on birth control for Zika areas etc. This is indeed open to criticism and honestly I think the Pope himself encourages it.

Each Pope in history has faced issues unique to his time. Are Popes to stay silent about them? Or should they perhaps shed light on these issues by clarifying their relation to Church teaching?

 

[esieffe]

You could spend your entire life studding theology, Catholic apologetics, tradition, the Catechism, and the Bible. With two jobs, I spend my remaining time focusing on the lives of the Saints, their writings, and what apologetics I can. I include the CCC of course as I can.

While I am troubled about what I see and read coming out of the Vatican these days, I am unsure about what footing I have to make public criticism about any Pope and what he is doing. I am concerned but, I am far more concerned about my salvation and bringing others to our Lord’s table.

There are those who seem to have a better grasp about that footing, and I leave it to them to “fight that battle” or not without judgment on my part. I watch with interest though. I would simply encourage folks who are also not clear on solid cannon law, to be cautious with their opinions, and rather focus on either getting that knowledge, so they can swim safely, or get back in the shallower end of the pool and worry about matters pertaining directly to themselves.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Crusader13]

I understand what you’re saying. It is very difficult for one to study Scripture and then top it off with Catholic Theology and then Church history. There are Dr’s and apologists who do this full time and still only focus on one aspect more than others simply because of the sheer depth of information.

However, it is incumbent on us, as individuals to know what we are to believe and what the church has upheld. So that way when a clergy member tries to tell us something that contradicts actual Church teachings, we can safeguard ourselves against such misinformation.

I for one don’t like Amoris Laetitia and I find things inside that document to be outright errors of the faith. So it’s important to know what we believe so we can recognize when errors arise.

 

[Rob2]

There have been seven popes during my lifetime , Popes Pius XII , John XXIII , Paul VI , John Paul I , John Paul II , Benedict XVI and Francis .

I could post links for each of of them showing how they were attacked by certain Catholics , but I shan’t because I would be guilty of the sins of calumny and detraction .

All seven popes have been superb .

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I for one don’t like Amoris Laetitia and I find things inside that document to be outright errors of the faith. So it’s important to know what we believe so we can recognize when errors arise

So, because of your catechesis, you have spotted the errors in AL?

Is that what you’re saying, or do I have it wrong?

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

asking for clarification from you.

You asserted kindness isn’t a virtue so perhaps you can clarify why you believe that. Then I can respond to your clarification

No I didn’t make an ‘assertion’. I asked a question of you. Perhaps I’ll pursue this in another thread.

 

[hellokitty]

I can’t believe there’s actually a thread criticizing Pope Francis on the Catholic Answers Forum. This forum makes me want to go back to practicing Witchcraft.
I’ve actually witnessed people on the same side of an argument arguing just to argue. They agreed with one another but were having so much fun using bashing one another, they just kept it going.

This forum needs to be shut down immediately. It does a grave disservice to Catholicism and could lead innocent members of the faith to abandon Jesus for a tradition with nicer adherents…like maybe Leah Remini’s Scientology?!?