Pope Francis Appreciation Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rozellelily
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sigh Sigh

From the Compendium:
177. Christian tradition has never recognized the right to private property as absolute and untouchable : “On the contrary, it has always understood this right within the broader context of the right common to all to use the goods of the whole of creation: the right to private property is subordinated to the right to common use, to the fact that goods are meant for everyone”[372]. The principle of the universal destination of goods is an affirmation both of God’s full and perennial lordship over every reality and of the requirement that the goods of creation remain ever destined to the development of the whole person and of all humanity[373]. This principle is not opposed to the right to private property[374] but indicates the need to regulate it. Private property, in fact, regardless of the concrete forms of the regulations and juridical norms relative to it, is in its essence only an instrument for respecting the principle of the universal destination of goods ; in the final analysis, therefore, it is not an end but a means [375].
Click to expand...
I know that you are somehow convinced that Catholicism supports unbridled capitalism, and that I will never convince you to actually look at the doctrine and see that is not correct. But I urge anyone what wants to know what the Church teaches to disregard both of us and actually read the doctrine:

 
@Rozellelily , would you like to make another Pope Francis Appreciation Thread that hopefully won’t turn into an off-topic debate about something else? This one is hopelessly ruined, alas.
 
Last edited:
Amen to that. Also please see the excerpts above from Quadragesimo Anno. One last one.
  1. To each, therefore, must be given his own share of goods, and the distribution of created goods, which, as every discerning person knows, is laboring today under the gravest evils due to the huge disparity between the few exceedingly rich and the unnumbered propertyless, must be effectively called back to and brought into conformity with the norms of the common good, that is, social justice.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, and I apologize for contributing to that by reacting to the anti-Francis posting. I will drop it.
 
TRose225 said:
They killed hundreds of millions of people…
Click to expand...
They actually didn’t. Even the authors of the Black Book of Communism said the editor was obsessed with making it a hundred million rather than being realistic.
 
Okay. I’ll stick with Pius XI despite you thinking that’s favoring things the Church has condemned. That’s odd. I thought quoting Pius XI or John Paul II was endorsing Catholic teaching but guess not.
 
You get those numbers from Cold War propaganda. Actual scholars who have investigated the death tolls such as Timothy Snyder have come to much more accurate conclusions regarding numbers.

So quoting at length without edit bits from Quadragesimo Anno is not warping his teaching. Okay.
 
Can you cite one actual scholar who has claimed higher numbers? Odds are you quote Frank Dikotter while ignoring the criticism of his work.

And you quoted specific paragraphs out of context to support the view that the Church is in favor of a libertarian system of purely voluntary charity and laissez faire economics. I’m providing more context for such documents than you are. And seeing as how the Compendium was brought up, a document approved by the Church and I believe Pope John Paul II, now a saint, and you dismissed it while preferring the original documents, the quoting of which you dismiss as distorting Church teaching, I kind of see your game here, bud.
 
TRose225 said:
I was never suspended, but created a new email and username because my old email was too full. I came back because there seemed to be an imbalance in viewpoints here
Click to expand...
A multiple account is still a violation of TOS. I couldn’t care less why you made one. Good day.
 
You’re also doing something that I call citing anonymous priests. Can you actually bring up a specific priest criticizing the Compendium and pointing out errors in it? Or perhaps you have a problem with the crystal clear teaching that property rights are not absolute as proclaimed by St John Paul II in encyclicals and the Compendium?
 
Pope Francis has been wonderful for my faith growth. He has constantly illuminated the really basic tenets of Scripture like our obligation to the poor and the proscription against judging others. He can spot a Pharisee a mile away as well. It’s always mystified me that people aren’t really afraid to act like Pharisees seeing how Jesus condemned that type of attitude so thoroughly.

Also his pulling back from the pomp and ceremony of the past goes a long way to restore the worlds faith in the ministry of Jesus on earth.
 
From the Compendium:
177. Christian tradition has never recognized the right to private property as absolute and untouchable : “On the contrary, it has always understood this right within the broader context of the right common to all to use the goods of the whole of creation: the right to private property is subordinated to the right to common use, to the fact that goods are meant for everyone”[372]. The principle of the universal destination of goods is an affirmation both of God’s full and perennial lordship over every reality and of the requirement that the goods of creation remain ever destined to the development of the whole person and of all humanity[373]. This principle is not opposed to the right to private property[374] but indicates the need to regulate it. Private property, in fact, regardless of the concrete forms of the regulations and juridical norms relative to it, is in its essence only an instrument for respecting the principle of the universal destination of goods ; in the final analysis, therefore, it is not an end but a means [375].
Click to expand...
Four citations. Laborem Exercens, Rerum Novarum, Guadium et Spes and Populorum Progressio. Would you like me to post all four citations to show that is an accurate representation of Catholic teaching on property? I don’t mind doing so.

By the way in Rerum Novarum Leo XIII says this,
The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property.
Click to expand...
Then he says this later on.
We have seen that this great labor question cannot be solved save by assuming as a principle that private ownership must be held sacred and inviolable.
Click to expand...
Bolded for emphasis.
 
Last edited:
Pope Francis visit to Sweden in 2016 for the joint Equmenical commemoration of the 500 years since the reformation. Unfortunately nobody remembers the name of the bishop from the Lutheran World Federation.

The Catholic Church in Sweden is finally back on the map after 400 years. There was even a death penalty for Swedes to be Catholics for about 200 years.
 
puer.dei said:
Thank you for trying.
Click to expand...
Since I’m able to speak freely, at least more than before, I will say I find it pathetic that every thread has to become political and some American members freak out when communism or socialism are mentioned.

Very telling that a Catholic forum can’t even have a thread talking about the good things the Holy Father has done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top