Pope Francis (Bergoglio) Criticised Pope Benedict XVI?

[hank3fan]

Doesn’t matter- he’s the Pope, so rally behind him.

 

[Digitonomy]

Just look at all of the threads popping up with this or that rumor causing some disturbance among the Faithful trying to get us to engage in spreading rumors that can kill a person’s good character.

If it’s true that the cardinal spoke up distancing himself from unwise remarks by the Holy Father, I don’t see that as calling his character into question. If anything, it sounds like he was trying to protect the Church in his area from some of the damage he expected as a result of Benedict’s comments.
the article:

The Vatican reacted quickly, removing one subordinate, Joaquín Piña the Archbishop of Puerto Iguazú from his post within four days of his making similar statements to the Argentine national media, sending a clear statement to Cardinal Bergoglio that he would be next should he choose to persist.

Looking up Joaquín Piña on Spanish Wikipedia, we find

En 2006, ya aceptado su retiro del cargo episcopal, lideró la coalición cívica denomimada Frente Unidos por la Dignidad (FUD), que en las elecciones para convencionales constituyentes, derrotó por más de 13 puntos al partido gobernante, frustrando las aspiraciones de Rovira de modificar la Constitución Provincial, al solo efecto de permitir su reelección indefinida.

In addition, Piña was born in 1930, making him 75 or 76 at the time in question. So we have at least 3 possible reasons for Piña to leave the episcopacy other than the conspiracy postulated in the OP: 1) He was required to turn in his retirement at age 75, and the Vatican may have accepted it on a routine basis. Retirements aren’t always accepted right away, so that isn’t a certain explanation. However, as a critic of President Menem, he may also have been a proponent of liberation theology - that’s not clear from the Wiki article. But if he was, the Vatican in the late 90s and early 2000s was reining in and easing out liberation theologists whether priests or bishops in Latin America. He may have been quiet enough to escape any official censure, but replacing him upon retirement age may have been a no-brainer for Vatican officials. 2) The Vatican may have forced him to retire because he insisted on running for office. 3) He may have retired by his own choice in order to run for office.

 

[Scott_D]

Doesn’t matter- he’s the Pope, so rally behind him.

That’s true.Its possible to lose the big picture that this pope is the right guy at the right time. So far he seems like he has a fiery, charismatic personality, which is what we need right now. Its possible to lose that perspective in analyzing rumors and quotes.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I’ve been trying to find the original statement or article from Newsweek Argentina without success (their website doesn’t have a search feature for archived articles.)

A number of fairly extensive articles on the Regensburg controversy do not contain any references to the future Pope Francis’s alleged remarks.

A fairly extensive Wikipedia article on the speech (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_lecture) contains numerous responses from Muslim, Catholic, and other leaders, but no reference to Cardinal Bergoglio. If a Cardinal publicly criticized his Pope over the issue, one would expect to find some reference in the international press and the Catholic media. I have been unable to find any references that are not recent ones based solelymon the Telegraph article. A Google search limiting responses to the time period of the alleged statements failed to produce anything, either.

It could be that Bergoglio did criticize the Pope publicly or circumspectly- men do have disagreements - but as there has already been one false report about Pope Francis in the paper today, it gives rise to caution.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Interesting…I’m still looking for any primary source stories. Everything links back to the Telegraph article and an article on the International Business Times website (ibtimes.com/pope-francis-friend-muslims-1130225), which simply repeats claims from the Telegraph story, each less than a week old.

Bishop Joaquin Pina, who allegedly got axed by Pope Benedict Cardinal Bergoglio narrowly escaping similar consequences, seems to have retired due to his desire to become involved in local politics. No mention of Regensburg in any news stories I can find about him before the last few days.

Buenos Aires, Argentina, Oct 4, 2006 / 12:00 am (CNA).- On Tuesday Pope Benedict XVI accepted the resignation of Bishop Joaquin Pina Batllevell, SJ, of the Diocese of Puerto Iguazu, who recently caused a firestorm by forming and leading an independent political coalition to replace the controversial current governor of the Argentinean province of Missiones.

Bishop Pina submitted his resignation upon reaching the age of retirement, and as his successor, Pope Benedict appointed Father Marcelo Martorell, 61, a pastor from the city of Cordoba.

Until the installation of the new bishop, the Holy Father designated, as Apostolic Administrator of Puerto Iguazu, Archbishop Domingo Salvador Castagna of Corrientes.

Thus, Bishop Pena will no longer have a formal link to the diocese, although as a bishop he still remains subject to the canonical norms that apply to clergy seeking political involvement.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/holy_see_accepts_resignation_of_controversial_argentinean_bishop_who_aspires_to_political_office/

The source for the comment that Bishop Pena was released due to comments on the Regensburg controversy, is Horatio Verbitsky, a columnist. Based on his biography in Wikipedia, he is also a former leftist guerrilla who wrote a book critical of Pope Francis. He may not exactly be an unimpeachable news source.

An article about the Pope’s good relations with the Islamic community doesn’t contain any reference to the incident, which should be well-known among the Islamic community in Buenos Aires if it occurred and likely to be mentioned.

buenosairesherald.com/article/126369/pope-francis-a-friend-of-the-islamic-community

I thought I found a relevant primary source in the Wikipedia article on Pope Francis:

Buenos Aires Islamic leaders praise Bergoglio’s close ties with the Islamic community by citing his reactions to a 2005 incident when Pope Benedict XVI quoted a medieval document that described Muhammad as “evil and inhuman”.[73] According to them, Bergoglio immediately distanced himself from the quotes, noting that statements that create outrage within the Islamic community "will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last 20 years.”[73]

…but the only source cited for this is the same March 15, 2013 article in the International Business Times by Palash R. Ghosh, who is simply quoting the Daily Telegraph article.

 

[shelby_sun]

I am glad he spoke up if he truly felt what Pope Benedict said was not good for the Church, He was not there to be a puppet of the pope, and I would expect that he would want someone to call him out if he wasn’t careful enough to choose his words correctly and if they felt it hurt the Church. Remember the Pope himself is not infallible.

For all the threads showing worry about Pope Francis, there seems to be many more that are trilled with this selection. as am I.

 

[tp3192000]

Hi,
Please forgive my ignorance, but I think there are very learned people here in this forum who may have more insight. I found it hard to understand exactly what Pope Benedict XVI was saying when he quoted this medieval remark about Islam. I thought that what he said had been misinterpreted by the media and the muslims, and that he was calling for improved communication between Islam and Catholicism.
Tom

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Interesting…I’m still looking for any primary source stories. Everything links back to the Telegraph article and an article on the International Business Times website (ibtimes.com/pope-francis-friend-muslims-1130225), which simply repeats claims from the Telegraph story, each less than a week old.

Bishop Joaquin Pina, who allegedly got axed by Pope Benedict Cardinal Bergoglio narrowly escaping similar consequences, seems to have retired due to his desire to become involved in local politics. No mention of Regensburg in any news stories I can find about him before the last few days.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/holy_see_accepts_resignation_of_controversial_argentinean_bishop_who_aspires_to_political_office/

The source for the comment that Bishop Pena was released due to comments on the Regensburg controversy, is Horatio Verbitsky, a columnist. Based on his biography in Wikipedia, he is also a former leftist guerrilla who wrote a book critical of Pope Francis. He may not exactly be an unimpeachable news source.

An article about the Pope’s good relations with the Islamic community doesn’t contain any reference to the incident, which should be well-known among the Islamic community in Buenos Aires if it occurred and likely to be mentioned.

buenosairesherald.com/article/126369/pope-francis-a-friend-of-the-islamic-community

I thought I found a relevant primary source in the Wikipedia article on Pope Francis:

…but the only source cited for this is the same March 15, 2013 article in the International Business Times by Palash R. Ghosh, who is simply quoting the Daily Telegraph article.

Thanks for the research. I did a very cursoury search and didn’t see anything supporting this either. I have a feeling everyone is projecting their own bias on the Pope. Since he isn’t as well known or as extensively published as Pope Benedict was when elected, they have a bit more room to work. I plan to reserve judegment on all these crazy stories (kicking out Cardinals, criticising the former Pope, getting rid of the Anglican Ordinariate) until Pope Francis makes a public statement of such as Pope.

 

[tp3192000]

“It was thoughtless of the pope to include that bit in his speech and, if he felt he had to say it, at least he could have properly, personally apologized, which it seems he did not.”

I do not for a second believe that anything from the mouth of Pope Benedict could be thoughtless. Most people believe as you do, that Pope Benedict was criticizing Islam, but is that in fact what he was saying? I agree with Chancellor Merkel from the same article that you posted.

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel defended the German-born pope, saying his message had been misunderstood.
“It is an invitation to dialogue between religions and the pope has explicitly urged this dialogue, which I also endorse and see as urgently necessary,” she said Friday. “What Benedict XVI makes clear is a decisive and uncompromising rejection of any use of violence in the name of religion.”

It seems unclear at this point if there was criticism or not from our new Pope Francis regarding this statement.

 

[_Abyssinia]

According to the daily mail there is a memo that suggests Cardinal Bergolio’s collaboration with the regime, I am not sure what authenticity it holds:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294580/Special-report-The-damning-documents-new-Pope-DID-betray-tortured-priests-junta.html

But the AP reports

One [human rights case] examined the torture of two of [Bergoglio’s] Jesuit priests — Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics — who were kidnapped in 1976 from the slums where they advocated liberation theology, which is the belief that Jesus Christ’s teachings justify fights against social injustices.

Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.

Both men were freed after Bergoglio took extraordinary, behind-the-scenes action to save them, including persuading dictator Jorge Videla’s family priest to call in sick so that Bergoglio could say Mass in the junta leader’s home, where he privately appealed for mercy. His intervention likely saved their lives, but Bergoglio never shared the details until [Sergio] Rubin interviewed him for the 2010 biography.

Bergoglio told Rubin that he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=174220195

Opponent of the war,Adolfo Perez Esquivel, a nobel peace prize winner says

What Bergoglio tried to do was help where he could,” said Adolfo Perez Esquivel, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for defending human rights during the dictatorship.

“It’s true that he didn’t do what very few bishops did in terms of defending the human rights cause, but it’s not right to accuse him of being an accomplice,” Perez Esquivel told Reuters. “Bergoglio never turned anyone in, neither was he an accomplice of the dictatorship.”

reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-pope-bergoglio-idUSBRE92D16J20130314

 

[pnewton]

More tripe from the anti-catholic british press, hey this new papa sure has them all worried… NEXT STORY PLEASE !

My thought exactly. The Telegraph is good for nothing but to give Huffington Post a companion in intolerance.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t know much about British newspapers, but seeing as this is a direct quote,

No, they say it is a quote. We do not know that this is a true quote. They give no reference. I searched for the quote and found nothing earlier than 2012, and that was on dubious websites. Being on the internet does not make something true.