Pope Francis' Daily Homilies

[Lormar]

I don’t mean to put words in Lucky7’s mouth, but I think the issue here is that, while what he said is true (Christ DID die to redeem everyone), the message that many people will take away from this homily is that everyone is saved automatically and Catholics/Atheists are essentially “the same”. That’s how the homily will be presented, and that’s what a lot of people are going to take away from it, which is problematic. This kind of problem could be taken care of if the wording of the homily was clear and direct on the point that while Christ died for all, it is imperative that people turn to Christ becasue that is the only way they can be saved.

I’m not sure of what you mean by the “parable” you posted, but I think it really serves the point I’m making here. Many people will look at a homily like this and think “I’m saved automatically, what I do or believe doesn’t matter, we’re all the same, so I’ll do whatever I feel is good”. This is what the “church of nice” is, that our culture is falling into now, and it won’t get us salvation.

McCall, I agree with you. We know what he means, but the average person, even many Catholics, won’t. There is a big difference between saying everyone is redeemed and everyone is saved. Redemption and salvation are not the same thing. But not everyone knows that.

 

[JReducation]

I was reading this and I find it so sad that all you are missing out on the richness of Ignatian theology and pedagogy, because you’re too busy arguing about how others may or may not interpret what the Holy Father says. In spending so much time on this argument, you may be missing something essential to your own salvation.

The Holy Father is speaking very much as St. Ignatius would speak and at the same time, he’s picked a very Franciscan theme. In typical Ignatian fashion, the preacher picks one subject and then props it up with three thoughts. In typical Franciscan fashion, he picks a subject that highlights our common brotherhood, regardless of whether we are believers or non-believers. You take these two systems together and this is what you get.

Subject: Man is wired to do good.

The props:

1. All men are created in the image and likeness of God; therefore, all men can and must do good.
2. All men have been redeemed by God; therefore it’s possible for all men to do good.
3. All men, believers and non-believers share a common ground where they must meet, doing the good for the world.

The Pope is a Jesuit. He’s not asking himself all of the possible interpretations that can be given to his sermon. Jesuits are not wired this way. If they were, they would be Dominicans, very systematic. Jesuits are practical. They go for what speaks to all people. The foremost question in their mind is, “What does God want me to do for my salvation?” They later send in the Dominicans to flesh out what they preached and the Franciscans to demonstrate how it’s lived in by the common man. Together, you have the complement of two great Mendicant traditions and the greatest tradition of Clerks Regular, which is the Society of Jesus.

Stop asking the pope to be a Dominican. He’s not a Dominican and apparently, Christ has not called him to be one or to speak as a Dominican. He has many Dominicans who work for him. They can pull all this apart later. He seems called to be more of a Franciscan Jesuit, which is not a surprise, because Ignatius borrowed much from the Franciscans. He had nothing against the Dominicans, but he wrote to his brothers, “If only we could do what St. Francis did the way he did it.”

Take the good in what Pope Francis says, live it in your own life. Let me speak to you from my own experience. As you are facing your mortality, the most important question becomes not what others are going to think about his talk or the other. The most important question in your life is going to be, “What is Christ saying to me through this talk that I must take care of, before I die?” You can be sure that whatever it is that he’s asking you to do before you die, is going to benefit you and the world, if you do it right.

I’m going back to bed. And don’t forget to read what he told the Missionaries of Charity today. It was awesome. The man is a great preacher.

 

[McCall1981]

I was reading this and I find it so sad that all you are missing out on the richness of Ignatian theology and pedagogy, because you’re too busy arguing about how others may or may not interpret what the Holy Father says. In spending so much time on this argument, you may be missing something essential to your own salvation.

The Holy Father is speaking very much as St. Ignatius would speak and at the same time, he’s picked a very Franciscan theme. In typical Ignatian fashion, the preacher picks one subject and then props it up with three thoughts. In typical Franciscan fashion, he picks a subject that highlights our common brotherhood, regardless of whether we are believers or non-believers. You take these two systems together and this is what you get.

Subject: Man is wired to do good.

The props:

1. All men are created in the image and likeness of God; therefore, all men can and must do good.
2. All men have been redeemed by God; therefore it’s possible for all men to do good.
3. All men, believers and non-believers share a common ground where they must meet, doing the good for the world.

The Pope is a Jesuit. He’s not asking himself all of the possible interpretations that can be given to his sermon. Jesuits are not wired this way. If they were, they would be Dominicans, very systematic. Jesuits are practical. They go for what speaks to all people. The foremost question in their mind is, “What does God want me to do for my salvation?” They later send in the Dominicans to flesh out what they preached and the Franciscans to demonstrate how it’s lived in by the common man. Together, you have the complement of two great Mendicant traditions and the greatest tradition of Clerks Regular, which is the Society of Jesus.

Stop asking the pope to be a Dominican. He’s not a Dominican and apparently, Christ has not called him to be one or to speak as a Dominican. He has many Dominicans who work for him. They can pull all this apart later. He seems called to be more of a Franciscan Jesuit, which is not a surprise, because Ignatius borrowed much from the Franciscans. He had nothing against the Dominicans, but he wrote to his brothers, “If only we could do what St. Francis did the way he did it.”

Take the good in what Pope Francis says, live it in your own life. Let me speak to you from my own experience. As you are facing your mortality, the most important question becomes not what others are going to think about his talk or the other. The most important question in your life is going to be, “What is Christ saying to me through this talk that I must take care of, before I die?” You can be sure that whatever it is that he’s asking you to do before you die, is going to benefit you and the world, if you do it right.

I’m going back to bed. And don’t forget to read what he told the Missionaries of Charity today. It was awesome. The man is a great preacher.

Hi Br. JR, its great to see you posting again

In the news forum theres a thread on this homily, and one of the first posts in it is someone saying basically “oh no, the Pope says we dont even have to believe in God”. I mentioned how theres a distinction between being redeemed vs salvation etc, and this person then understood and felt better. Since this person happened to go on a message board they got an explanation, but I do think many people will miisunderstand this, and that is what makes me sad. Theres also an article on huffington post saying basically “the Pope says Jesus saves everyone”. Obviously we know that is ridiculous, but many people dont, and how can I/we not care if peoples faith is hurt by these misunderstandings?

You point out that, as a Jesuit, Pope Francis is not going to consider all the interpretations of what he says, but, to be blunt, shouldn’t he?

Hope youre feeling well, Ive been praying for you and I hope you can make it back here often to help us all out

 

[AndyP2010]

[/en1-694369"]Wednesday Audience]("http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/audience:_the_holy_spirit,unity_and_communion[full_text)

nd this happens even today for the Church and for each of us: from the fire of Pentecost, from the action of the Holy Spirit, ever new missionary energies are released, new ways in which to proclaim the message of salvation, new courage to evangelize. Never be closed to this action! May we live the Gospel with humility and courage! May we witness the novelty, the hope, the joy that the Lord brings to life. Let us feel within us “the delightful and comforting joy of evangelizing” (Paul VI, Apostolic Exhortation. Ap. Evangelii nuntiandi, 80) Because evangelizing, announcing Jesus, evangelizing brings us joy! It energizes us. Being closed up within ourselves brings bitterness. Proclaiming the joy and hope that the Lord brings to world lifts us up!

 

[AndyP2010]

[/en1-694369"]Wednesday Audience]("http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/audience:_the_holy_spirit,unity_and_communion[full_text)

nd this happens even today for the Church and for each of us: from the fire of Pentecost, from the action of the Holy Spirit, ever new missionary energies are released, new ways in which to proclaim the message of salvation, new courage to evangelize. Never be closed to this action! May we live the Gospel with humility and courage! May we witness the novelty, the hope, the joy that the Lord brings to life. Let us feel within us “the delightful and comforting joy of evangelizing” (Paul VI, Apostolic Exhortation. Ap. Evangelii nuntiandi, 80) Because evangelizing, announcing Jesus, evangelizing brings us joy! It energizes us. Being closed up within ourselves brings bitterness. Proclaiming the joy and hope that the Lord brings to world lifts us up!

 

[JReducation]

Hi Br. JR, its great to see you posting again

In the news forum theres a thread on this homily, and one of the first posts in it is someone saying basically “oh no, the Pope says we dont even have to believe in God”. I mentioned how theres a distinction between being redeemed vs salvation etc, and this person then understood and felt better. Since this person happened to go on a message board they got an explanation, but I do think many people will miisunderstand this, and that is what makes me sad. Theres also an article on huffington post saying basically “the Pope says Jesus saves everyone”. Obviously we know that is ridiculous, but many people dont, and how can I/we not care if peoples faith is hurt by these misunderstandings?

You point out that, as a Jesuit, Pope Francis is not going to consider all the interpretations of what he says, but, to be blunt, shouldn’t he?

Knowing what we know about Ignatian pedagogy and the Ignatian method, that would not be the right question. The question would be, “What is the best thing for his soul?” Ignatius first principle is always, “What does God want for me today?”

The next Ignatian question would be, “Are the subjects compatible?” The answer is “No.” The subject of this sermon is “Doing the good” not “Redemption and Salvation”. That’s a subject for a future sermon or if one wants to get into real depth, it’s a subject for theologians at a university.

Finally, there is the fidelity that is owed to the founder. Ignatius established a very specific way of organizing a sermon and of teaching. It’s one subject at a time with three supporting arguments. To make a parenthetical remark to clarify the difference between redemption and salvation is to step outside of Ignatius’ method.

You will find that Jesuits, Franciscans, and Benedictines would rather walk on hot coals than contradict their patriarchs. These men were masters of holiness. The one thing that they all taught is “Tomorrow’s another day.” If it’s necessary, you can teach it tomorrow. No one will go to hell for what they don’t know or don’t understand. That’s the beauty of the scholarship of these great orders. They understand that people don’t go to hell and souls don’t get lost, because of missing information. God does not operate that way. Man does. While man has a right to the whole truth, the teacher does not have to deliver it all in one session. Such an expectation is impossible to meet. Here again we are confronted by Ignatian practicality.

The fact is that Pope has spoken on what is necessary for salvation. One cannot take a sermon out of context. It has to be taken within the entire corpus of a man’s preaching. No preacher can address everything in one session. That’s why Ignatius insists on his method: one subject and three supporting ideas. By doing so, it keeps the preaching organized. If one wants to know what the pope has to say on salvation, one can find the answer in one of his other sermons.

Hope youre feeling well, Ive been praying for you and I hope you can make it back here often to help us all out

Thank you very much. Please continue. I do feel the effects of your prayers, if not in my body, in my soul. I’m doing a great deal of soul searching: sorting out what I have done and what I have failed to do. I’m realizing more and more that my life has not contributed much to this world. I hope that the small drop that I may contribute will be the best that I can give. Only through prayer can we appreciate what we are, where we’ve been and what we have yet to do for God and the Church. If you were not praying for me, I would probably not be having such grace-filled moments these past few days.

I’m going to rest for now. I’ll try to peak in tomorrow.

 

[Saints_Alive]

I was reading this and I find it so sad that all you are missing out on the richness of Ignatian theology and pedagogy, because you’re too busy arguing about how others may or may not interpret what the Holy Father says. In spending so much time on this argument, you may be missing something essential to your own salvation.

The Holy Father is speaking very much as St. Ignatius would speak and at the same time, he’s picked a very Franciscan theme. In typical Ignatian fashion, the preacher picks one subject and then props it up with three thoughts. In typical Franciscan fashion, he picks a subject that highlights our common brotherhood, regardless of whether we are believers or non-believers. You take these two systems together and this is what you get.

Subject: Man is wired to do good.

The props:

1. All men are created in the image and likeness of God; therefore, all men can and must do good.
2. All men have been redeemed by God; therefore it’s possible for all men to do good.
3. All men, believers and non-believers share a common ground where they must meet, doing the good for the world.

The Pope is a Jesuit. He’s not asking himself all of the possible interpretations that can be given to his sermon. Jesuits are not wired this way. If they were, they would be Dominicans, very systematic. Jesuits are practical. They go for what speaks to all people. The foremost question in their mind is, “What does God want me to do for my salvation?” They later send in the Dominicans to flesh out what they preached and the Franciscans to demonstrate how it’s lived in by the common man. Together, you have the complement of two great Mendicant traditions and the greatest tradition of Clerks Regular, which is the Society of Jesus.

Stop asking the pope to be a Dominican. He’s not a Dominican and apparently, Christ has not called him to be one or to speak as a Dominican. He has many Dominicans who work for him. They can pull all this apart later. He seems called to be more of a Franciscan Jesuit, which is not a surprise, because Ignatius borrowed much from the Franciscans. He had nothing against the Dominicans, but he wrote to his brothers, “If only we could do what St. Francis did the way he did it.”

Take the good in what Pope Francis says, live it in your own life. Let me speak to you from my own experience. As you are facing your mortality, the most important question becomes not what others are going to think about his talk or the other. The most important question in your life is going to be, “What is Christ saying to me through this talk that I must take care of, before I die?” You can be sure that whatever it is that he’s asking you to do before you die, is going to benefit you and the world, if you do it right.

I’m going back to bed. And don’t forget to read what he told the Missionaries of Charity today. It was awesome. The man is a great preacher.

Wow, sorry we aren’t up to your standards.

Why can’t simple laity take what they may out of H.H. sermons and let it help them along without being expected to live under some unsaid requirement to measure everything Catholic against some sort of Franciscan Litmus test.

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be mean spirited, but you just seem to talk down to the average Catholic as though we missed a boat no one ever told us we need to be taking a ride on.

 

[Indyann]

Wow, sorry we aren’t up to your standards.

Why can’t simple laity take what they may out of H.H. sermons and let it help them along without being expected to live under some unsaid requirement to measure everything Catholic against some sort of Franciscan Litmus test.

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be mean spirited, but you just seem to talk down to the average Catholic as though we missed a boat no one ever told us we need to be taking a ride on.

Well, Whitey, I am not the brightest bulb in the box, but I got it after one reading. Maybe, you did miss the boat. Study and get ready, and we’ll catch ya next trip

 

[AndyP2010]

Homily 5/23/13
Reading Sirach 5:1-8
Gospel Mark 9 41 - 50

“The Christian originality is not a uniformity! It takes each one as he is, with his own personality, with his own characteristics, his culture – and leaves him with that, because it is a treasure. However, it gives one something more: it gives flavour! This Christian originality is so beautiful, because when we want to make a uniformity - all salted in the same way - things will be like when the woman throws in too much salt and one tastes only salt and not the meal. The Christian originality is this: each is as he is, with the gifts the Lord has given him.”

“In this way is the salt conserved, [in this way it keeps] its flavor. With the worship of the Lord I go beyond myself to the Lord, and with the proclamation of the Gospel I go out of myself to give the message. If we do not do this, however - these two things, these two transcendences, to give the salt - the salt will remain in the bottle, and we will become ‘museum-piece Christians’. We can show the salt: this is my salt - and how lovely it is! This is the salt that I received in Baptism, this is what I received in Confirmation, this is what I received in catechesis - But look: museum-piece Christians! A salt without flavor, a salt that does nothing.”

Brother JR You are in my prayers as well. If you are but a drop in the ocean of the world, know that you at least caused a ripple. May that ripple be joined with others to form a single wave. Then many waves and with the breath of the Holy Spirit a storm forms. Great is the power of our Lord.

 

[McCall1981]

Knowing what we know about Ignatian pedagogy and the Ignatian method, that would not be the right question. The question would be, “What is the best thing for his soul?” Ignatius first principle is always, “What does God want for me today?”

The next Ignatian question would be, “Are the subjects compatible?” The answer is “No.” The subject of this sermon is “Doing the good” not “Redemption and Salvation”. That’s a subject for a future sermon or if one wants to get into real depth, it’s a subject for theologians at a university.

Finally, there is the fidelity that is owed to the founder. Ignatius established a very specific way of organizing a sermon and of teaching. It’s one subject at a time with three supporting arguments. To make a parenthetical remark to clarify the difference between redemption and salvation is to step outside of Ignatius’ method.

You will find that Jesuits, Franciscans, and Benedictines would rather walk on hot coals than contradict their patriarchs. These men were masters of holiness. The one thing that they all taught is “Tomorrow’s another day.” If it’s necessary, you can teach it tomorrow. No one will go to hell for what they don’t know or don’t understand. That’s the beauty of the scholarship of these great orders. They understand that people don’t go to hell and souls don’t get lost, because of missing information. God does not operate that way. Man does. While man has a right to the whole truth, the teacher does not have to deliver it all in one session. Such an expectation is impossible to meet. Here again we are confronted by Ignatian practicality.

The fact is that Pope has spoken on what is necessary for salvation. One cannot take a sermon out of context. It has to be taken within the entire corpus of a man’s preaching. No preacher can address everything in one session. That’s why Ignatius insists on his method: one subject and three supporting ideas. By doing so, it keeps the preaching organized. If one wants to know what the pope has to say on salvation, one can find the answer in one of his other sermons.

This question isn’t just directed at Br. JR, if anyone else has an opinion, please chime in.

Unfortunately, I’ve seen a number of threads pop up on CAF (and blog articles etc) relating to this homily, and a lot of people seem confused and upset by it. That is what I’m really getting at, because a lot of us could see this confusion and hurt coming. Regardless of the Ignatian style of homiletics, or good intentions, it seems that quotes like this cause confusion and “scandal” so to speak.

The crux of it for me is: I can’t imagine that Pope Francis could be unaware of how his words will be taken, and that those words will have consequences for other people. Given that, why would he say them?

I’m really trying to understand, but I’m at a loss

 

[Lormar]

I’m realizing more and more that my life has not contributed much to this world.

That’s what you think. You are looking at the wrong side of the tapestry.

 

[AndyP2010]

This question isn’t just directed at Br. JR, if anyone else has an opinion, please chime in.

Unfortunately, I’ve seen a number of threads pop up on CAF (and blog articles etc) relating to this homily, and a lot of people seem confused and upset by it. That is what I’m really getting at, because a lot of us could see this confusion and hurt coming. Regardless of the Ignatian style of homiletics, or good intentions, it seems that quotes like this cause confusion and “scandal” so to speak.

The crux of it for me is: I can’t imagine that Pope Francis could be unaware of how his words will be taken, and that those words will have consequences for other people. Given that, why would he say them?

I’m really trying to understand, but I’m at a loss

Can you provide a link to one of the other threads in question or to blog article, thanks?

 

[McCall1981]

Can you provide a link to one of the other threads in question or to blog article, thanks?

I’m in the threads, too

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=789771

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=789514

wdtprs.com/blog/2013/05/pope-francis-on-the-possibility-of-salvation-for-atheists/#comments

huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-being-an-atheist-is-alright-as-long-as-you-do-good-8629390.html

salon.com/2013/05/23/pope_francis_atheists_are_all_right/

catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077

 

[JReducation]

The crux of it for me is: I can’t imagine that Pope Francis could be unaware of how his words will be taken, and that those words will have consequences for other people. Given that, why would he say them?

I’m really trying to understand, but I’m at a loss

I’m peaking in again, because I have to sit here for a while. I really want to try to help those who are struggling with this.

Let’s go back to something that I have always said. I’ve said that context is important. There is context when it comes to a statement, which is part of a larger piece of writing or a longer talk. There is also social context and finally there is spiritual context. I’d like to look at this last one for a moment and see if this helps everyone to understand why Pope Francis speaks this way.

If we remember, there were two things that happened very early in his pontificate. One happened on the day of his election and the other within the first week. On the day of his election, he chose the name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi. He explained that he had done so because a brother cardinal had whispered to him, “Don’t forget the poor.” He clearly wants to make poverty a theme of his pontificate. To understand this, one has to understand Franciscan poverty. We go to context again. In the Franciscan school, poverty begins with material detachment, but it does not stop there. It goes on to embrace every human being as brother, believer or non believer. It sets aside all notions of Catholic triumphalism. While the Franciscan is a great lover of the Church and a faithful son of the Church, he also understands that the Church reaches out beyond her borders and draws others in, one tiny step at a time. Hence the idea of calling all men to do good is part of this detachment from the notion that we are Catholics; therefore, we’re right and everyone else is wrong. We do not deny that we’re Catholics, nor do we deny that the Church of Jesus Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. However, we reject triumphalistic language and behavior, because it’s contrary to poverty. There is one part of this context.

The other part of this is the Jesuit element. A few short days after his election, Pope Francis summoned the Superior General of the Society of Jesus. He pledged to him that he would do whatever was necessary to promote the spirituality and mission “of our order”. His words are very important here. He is not willing to disconnect from his order. On the contrary. If we observed his inaugural mass and read the reports, there were two concelebrants among the cardinals who were not bishops or prelates of any kind: the Superior General of the Jesuits and the Superior General of the Conventual Franciscans. He has deliberately chosen to surround himself with Jesuits and Franciscans.

He is determined to operate out of that context. Why you ask?

The answer lies in Ignatius first exercise. The Jesuit must always ask himself, “What does God want for my salvation today?” That question must be the first question that he asks each day. The understanding is very clear. Whatever is good for the salvation of the individual Jesuit, will be good for the whole, because each Christian is part of a body, as St. Paul reminds us.

In his case, the Holy Father’s answer may be something like this. “God wants me to deliver a message that Francis of Assisi would deliver.” He’s delivering a Franciscan message, not because he’s a Franciscan. He’s doing it because he’s a Jesuit and his Jesuit spirituality leads him to discern that this is what God wants him to do for his own salvation. In procuring one’s salvation, one also procures the salvation of the body.

The problem that I have seen in the media is that everyone is quoting this homily, but forgetting one that he gave a week or two ago when he said that looking for Jesus outside the Church was lunacy. He went on to quote Pope Paul VI extensively. What the media has done is take the homily out of the corpus of his preaching. In other words, they have taken it out of context. That is not his fault. This would happen if he preached on peanuts.

He preached a homily on doing the Good, because God wanted him to do so in order to save his soul. He propped it up the way he did, because Ignatius taught him that this is the way to do it. He does not ignore the question of salvation and redemption. He had addressed this in a previous homily. These homilies have to be taken like chapters of a book.

 

[Lucky7]

The crux of it for me is: I can’t imagine that Pope Francis could be unaware of how his words will be taken, and that those words will have consequences for other people. Given that,** why would he say them?**

I’m really trying to understand, but I’m at a loss

That’s the $64,000 question.

 

[JReducation]

We’ve never had a Jesuit pope. It’s going to take us a while to think like a Jesuit. For that matter, we have not had a religious pope in almost 200 years. That’s going to take a while to get used to. We’re so used to secular popes who are trained in classical systems, because that’s how much of the secular clergy is formed. Religious who are priests undergo a very different formation. They go through graduate school for theology degrees like everyone else. They get the training that the Church prescribes for priests. HOWEVER, (here it comes), because they are also going through religious formation at the same time, they return to the formation house where they are taught the spirit, philosophy, theology, mission and vision of their order. They are taught that when there is a conflict between what they learn over at the seminary and what they learn in religious formation, religious formation trumps the seminary. They don’t make vows to live life according to the seminary’s dictums. They do make vows to obey the order and to live according to the mind of the founder. This has been approved by the Church.

This is a new experience for us, unless anyone here is 300 years old and remembers that last religious pope.

 

[McCall1981]

The problem that I have seen in the media is that everyone is quoting this homily, but forgetting one that he gave a week or two ago when he said that looking for Jesus outside the Church was lunacy. He went on to quote Pope Paul VI extensively. What the media has done is take the homily out of the corpus of his preaching. In other words, they have taken it out of context. That is not his fault. This would happen if he preached on peanuts.

He preached a homily on doing the Good, because God wanted him to do so in order to save his soul. He propped it up the way he did, because Ignatius taught him that this is the way to do it. He does not ignore the question of salvation and redemption. He had addressed this in a previous homily. These homilies have to be taken like chapters of a book.

I see, and I’m trying to see his homilies as all connected, like chapters, and he has said some very good, strong things about looking for Christ outside the Church etc (like you said).

But he must know, when he says something like this, that it will cause confusion, scandal, and that the media will run awway with it, etc. Right?

So is it that he knows there are these negatives repercussions, but thinks there are positives that outweigh them? Like maybe he knows it will upset Catholics, but thinks it will attract Atheists and thus be “worth it”?

 

[Lormar]

This question is for Brother Jay only to answer.

Brother, but as Supreme Pontiff and Vicar of Christ, shouldn’t being a Jesuit be secondary to him? Also, you mentioned something else that I have always had a problem with - it used to be that the Church of Christ IS the Catholic Church; now it subsists. If they both mean the same thing, why change the word? “Is”, at least to me, is a lot more specific and clear.

 

[Lucky7]

We’ve never had a Jesuit pope. It’s going to take us a while to think like a Jesuit. For that matter, we have not had a religious pope in almost 200 years. That’s going to take a while to get used to. We’re so used to secular popes who are trained in classical systems, because that’s how much of the secular clergy is formed. Religious who are priests undergo a very different formation. They go through graduate school for theology degrees like everyone else. They get the training that the Church prescribes for priests. HOWEVER, (here it comes), because they are also going through religious formation at the same time, they return to the formation house where they are taught the spirit, philosophy, theology, mission and vision of their order. They are taught that when there is a conflict between what they learn over at the seminary and what they learn in religious formation, religious formation trumps the seminary. They don’t make vows to live life according to the seminary’s dictums. They do make vows to obey the order and to live according to the mind of the founder. This has been approved by the Church.

This is a new experience for us, unless anyone here is 300 years old and remembers that last religious pope.

Whether religious or not, popes have the responsibility of saying things that are not confusing in matters of faith and morals (as do all of our leaders). This homily is confusing to many as evidenced by the numerous posts we have seen here on CAF and on other websites.

Did he not think that by saying “Atheists are redeemed, not just Catholics” that a plethora of people (some innocently and some not so innocently) would translate that as “Atheists are saved, not just Catholics”? Or better yet, that they are saved by their good works?

This man is intelligent and he knows the Faith, so I just don’t get why he would leave those comments out there like that.

 

[McCall1981]

Whether religious or not, popes have the responsibility of saying things that are not confusing in matters of faith and morals (as do all of our leaders). This homily is confusing to many as evidenced by the numerous posts we have seen here on CAF and on other websites.

Did he not think that by saying “Atheists are redeemed, not just Catholics” that a plethora of people (some innocently and some not so innocently) would translate that as “Atheists are saved, not just Catholics”? Or better yet, that they are saved by their good works?

This man is intelligent and he knows the Faith, so I just don’t get why he would leave those comments out there like that.

This sums up what I’m struggling to ask.

Either he must be exceedingly naieve (which I don’t think is the case), or something else must be going on.

Is it that being “controversial” and leaving it open ended is suppossed to attract atheists to the Faith?

It just seems so counter productive to what the Church is trying to do, to the evangelization that he emphasizes so much