Pope Francis, Innocent until proven guilty?

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MountCarmel said:
If Pope Francis ‘resigns’, it will almost certainly not be solely because of public opinion, but mostly because of internal Vatican and Curia balances of power - I’m struggling to phrase things clearly and
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This argument is getting a little worn out. The media LOVES to refer every power decision to a sinister, secret government operating in the Vatican - the mystery Curia. For years it was mostly the Left that played that song, since 1965 both Left and Right.

Enough!

Right now the Left in the Church, and outside, are mostly quiet or ambiguous re Pope Francis. They can’t appear to be condoning abuse. They will let him be pushed to resign.

Later, under future popes, they will portray him as a victim of the secret cabal, the Mafia behind the papal throne, whose nanes and influence are unknown to the common rabble. But They know. The Left will wrote endless articles, history, and novels, about how this Pope, like Pope JP I, was removed just when he threaten their power.
 
Ask the victims of Cardinal McCarrick if they consider him the “fall guy”.
 
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Muting this garbage now.
 
RosalieM said:
I kind of liked Pope Benedict’s way of doing things, altho sometimes he was way over my head. Francis is more simple. I wish the Church would shine some attention on the good things about celibacy and being single and stop playing up marriage so much. I’m guessing about half of us aren’t married and are left out of most homilies. I think perhaps many of the offenders may have felt deprived instead of blessed. (my opinion).
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“Stop playing up marriage so much”? No marriage, no babies. No babies, far fewer new Catholics. Additionally, marriage is a sacrament. I’ve no problem with the Church increasing speech about and outreach to singles. But “stop playing up marriage so much”? Not gonna happen. Thankfully.

In the secular world, marriage is constantly threatened. I’m proud to be part of a church that values and prioritizes it.
 
In the secular world, it’s faith that’s being threatened, not just marriage.
 
You mean ‘exclusive’?
Marriage is a vocation, not only a sacrament – as are holy orders. Not everyone is meant for marriage or called to holy orders. But we are all called to keep the faith. St. Paul was in favor of being single; but said in so many words, that it is ‘better to marry than to burn’. I’m single as you probably guessed…but my best friends are married. 😀
 
RosalieM said:
You mean ‘exclusive’?
Marriage is a vocation, not only a sacrament – as are holy orders. Not everyone is meant for marriage or called to holy orders. But we are all called to keep the faith. St. Paul was in favor of being single; but said in so many words, that it is ‘better to marry than to burn’. I’m single as you probably guessed…but my best friends are married. 😀
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Yes, exclusive! Heh.

As I said, I’ve no problem with Church putting more resources toward single folks. But putting less attention on marriages would be disastrous. Most of my friends are married. And divorced. And remarried. Or shacking up. Or discussing “maintenance sex with strangers with me.” There’s a crisis regarding marriage.
 
I don’t think in terms of the pope being innocent or guilty.
I trust no matter what happened he has a good heart.

But I do look at it as either we get an explanation or we don’t.

If we don’t get a full and frank explanation I don’t think of the pope as a bad man but one that is taking the wrong options and to be honest, together with other obfuscations, that doesn’t endear me to his leadership.
 
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There appears to be a pattern of extreme confidence in a few advisors who think like him, and distancing himself from conservatives. I don’t think he’s getting a broad (name removed by moderator)ut of information.

I think he is innocent of any condoning of abuse. But his tendency to bypass traditional structures and people he disagrees with results in miscommunications and division among bishops.
 
In the current situation the hierarchy are between a rock and a hard place - the issue being ‘omission’ and/or ‘commission’ - these seem to be so heavily intertwined. It is through ‘omission’ that ‘commission’ finds comfort/encouragement/room to continue and indeed expand operations. The whys and wherefores are very complex, and probably in ‘modern terms’ stem from the time of Pope Leo XIII’s vision of Satan complaining to Jesus. It was this vision that moved the Pope to pen the Saint Michael prayer. Something that was dropped from most post-Vatican II Masses - but that the present pastor of my parish church, has thankfully reinstated at the end of Masses, and indeed as part of other occasions.
 
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Wow. That reminds me I once thought they spoke a lot about marriage simply because it was necessary.
 
Yes, innocent until proven guilty and because of the seriousness of this whole thing the Holy Father needs to be open and forthright with the faithful members of the Church. We need action, not inaction . We need words, not silence.
 
I’m sure if someone accused Pope Benedict he would have a fair trial first…
it works both ways guys
 
“Pope Francis, innocent until proven guilty?”

Archbishop McCarrick, too. I heard that he has denied all the charges, yet that hasn’t stopped tongues from wagging, big time. He hasn’t had his canonical trial at the Vatican, has he?
 
  1. The Catholic church continues intact above and beyond any one individual or individuals’ lifetimes. Our Catholic teachings will always be preserved.
  2. Pope can’t be removed or impeached, read First Vatican Council
  3. Exactly 500 years since the Reformation. Council of Trent cleaned house. Lots of similarities today. Time for another Church General Council.
 
To further amplify your point, amidst the seriousness of the allegations and the crumbling of the credibility/unity of the Church, the flock expects Pope Francis and the alleged bishops/Cardinals to tell the whole truth and fully explain their decisions.

In the life of the Church, we have seen frivolous/false accusations made against the Church that went nowhere. Therefore, it is reasonable and even wise to not have to respond to every accusations made against the Church. But so far, credible/honest bishops, priests, theologians, investigators, journalists, etc… have deemed the accusations made by Archbishop Viganò to be credible, and the gravity of the accusations themselves to be very serious. Meanwhile, the responses from Pope Francis, Cardinal Cupich, Cardinal Wuerl and Cardinal Maradiaga so far have been at best very weak and evasive—to put it charitably. It therefore merits a thorough investigation. To choose to remain silent on this will be disastrous to the credibility and unity of the Church. And it will get even worse by each passing day.

Pope Francis is our Holy Father and I will continue to pray for him. He knows what he should do… The Catholic Church is the church of Jesus Christ and is the bride of Christ. The Church will survive through this mess as she always has throughout her long history. Christ will make sure of it.
 
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