Pope Francis, Judaism and Yoga

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Hi Guys. What exactly is the Council of Florence talking about regarding Judaism? Is it saying that Catholics CANT celebrate Jewish Festivals? What about Hebrew Catholics who want to participate in them just for remembrance of how God delivers his people? Is that ok as long as they don’t hold that these festivals have any means of Salvation? If NO then why has Pope Francis participated in Jewish Festivals such as Hanukkah? Theres pictures online for people to see it. So is it ok to attend these festivals just for rememberance and not for any “benefits” of getting closer to God? If YES then why is Yoga bad if someone ONLY does it for exercise and not for “deeper spirituality” or “getting to know oneself”? By the way I am against all forms of Yoga.
 
Church_Militant said:
Okay, before we get into this I want you to provide a link to whatever part of a verifiable document from that council that says what you say it does. Then we can talk.

Furthermore, Yoga has nothing at all to do with this and CA’s apologists have addressed this many times.
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catholicism.org/cantate-domino.html

Scroll to the tenth paragraph
 
Church_Militant said:
Okay, before we get into this I want you to provide a link to whatever part of a verifiable document from that council that says what you say it does. Then we can talk.

Furthermore, Yoga has nothing at all to do with this and CA’s apologists have addressed this many times.
Click to expand...
I still disagree with their positions on Yoga by the way. Many exorcists including Fr Gabriel Amorth I believe are against yoga. Calling it evil and satanic.
 
lethalbean95 said:
Hi Guys. What exactly is the Council of Florence talking about regarding Judaism? Is it saying that Catholics CANT celebrate Jewish Festivals? What about Hebrew Catholics who want to participate in them just for remembrance of how God delivers his people? Is that ok as long as they don’t hold that these festivals have any means of Salvation? If NO then why has Pope Francis participated in Jewish Festivals such as Hanukkah? Theres pictures online for people to see it. So is it ok to attend these festivals just for rememberance and not for any “benefits” of getting closer to God? If YES then why is Yoga bad if someone ONLY does it for exercise and not for “deeper spirituality” or “getting to know oneself”? By the way I am against all forms of Yoga.
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Hebrew Catholics have full freedom to participate in Jewish rites and rituals. Where these Jewish holidays and practices do not conflict with Catholic doctrine, they are kept for ethnic reasons e.g. Passover, Rosh Hashana, Shavuot, etc. The Church sees no contradiction because our faith stems from theirs.

Muslims who convert to Catholicism are not allowed to participate in muslim rituals or Buddhist converts in buddhist rituals etc. This is a special dispensation only provided for Hebrew Catholics.

The point of contention has been from the other end. For the most part Jewish clerics do not approve of this. This is understandable given our historical and theological differences.

There is a broad range of Jewish Catholics. From those who observe nothing much of the Jewish ways up to those who observe the same as Orthodox Jews.

Fr. David Neuhaus, patriarchal vicar for Hebrew-speaking Catholics in Jerusalem and himself a Jew by birth, declared in 2008 that “Dietary laws are not obligatory for those who live in Christ. I would only understand dietary laws being observed by Jewish Hebrew Catholics if they had always practised these laws before becoming Catholic. It certainly does no harm. But adopting the laws as Catholics (or as secular Jews who have become Catholic) does not make much sense as we have the fullness of the promise in Jesus.”
 
lethalbean95 said:
catholicism.org/cantate-domino.html

Scroll to the tenth paragraph
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This website and the order who runs have been on shaky with the Church

They subscribe to Feeneyism, which is a strick unsertanding of the text you showed.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

They believe that God will not show mercy to those who faithfully try to follow God but who are not Catholic out of no fault of their own.

The Church teaches that God MAY show mercy and if He does, it’s because of the Catholic Church. This is why we pray for peoples of all Faiths on Good Friday and why we pray for mercy on us and on the whole world. We have a hope that God will show mercy.

However, Feeneyism denies that mercy exsists and takes an “sola scriptura” type approach to that Bull.
 
lethalbean95 said:
I still disagree with their positions on Yoga by the way. Many exorcists including Fr Gabriel Amorth I believe are against yoga. Calling it evil and satanic.
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So you are willing to trust your own thinking instead of that of the church?

Good luck with that.

And where are these documented citations of the Council of Florence?
 
lethalbean95 said:
I still disagree with their positions on Yoga by the way. Many exorcists including Fr Gabriel Amorth I believe are against yoga. Calling it evil and satanic.
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I agree with you regarding yoga. So does the women from Women of Grace, the National Catholic Register, and EWTN.

I feel the problem with the yoga debate is two part:
  1. we fail to define the different kinds of “yoga”
  2. we fail to provide good alternatives
I feel that we have 4 kids of “yoga catagories”
  • traditional, religious, Hindu Yoga; which obviously bad for Catholics
  • spiritual yoga classes with candles, etc; which is still bad even if taught by a blonde hippie
  • yoga at a local gym without candles, etc, lead by a fitness professional but it still has some religious positions which the leader might not even know about; this is what most Catholics who do yoga do, but this is still bad (even if it’s not called yoga)
  • finally, a yoga like class where the leaders made a deliberate effort to remove any and all traces to religious yoga, nothing left except safe exersise; there are not many of these, but we should be pushing the ones that exist because they are good
An example of a good alternative to yoga is SoulCore - soulcore.com

In their workouts, they worked with Catholic specialists like Sue Brinkman and others to remove all yoga, leaving just a Christian / Catholic friendly alternative. Note: not all “Christian Yoga” has done this, so it’s important to make sure the program has ALL yoga removed.

SoulCore prays the Rosary or Divine Mercy Chaplet while performing non-yoga stretching and exercising.

On their website, you can see some of the press they received from the National Catholic Register and other Catholic programs.

Spread the word to you parishes, Catholic High Schools, Catholic Colleges, and even local YMCAs.

Let’s give our Catholic women a ligitimate alternative to yoga

God Bless
 
Church_Militant said:
So you are willing to trust your own thinking instead of that of the church?

Good luck with that.

And where are these documented citations of the Council of Florence?
Click to expand...
The Church is against yoga. The issues is where to draw the line between exercise and new age practices.

Women of Grace and other groups who have studied yoga very closely all believe that we should not be doing any yoga religious stretches at all, and that we should only be taking part in exercises that do not have any of those stretches (for many reasons)
 
phil19034 said:
The Church is against yoga. The issues is where to draw the line between exercise and new age practices.

Women of Grace and other groups who have studied yoga very closely all believe that we should not be doing any yoga religious stretches at all, and that we should only be taking part in exercises that do not have any of those stretches (for many reasons)
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No argument from me. 👍

I believe there are far too many better forms of exercise anyway.

And the OP has still not shown us where Pope Francis and Judaism is tied into all this.

When he offers his findings from the council of Florence then maybe we can get started.

So far…all his remarks come off empty due to his lack of citation. 🤷
 
Church_Militant said:
So you are willing to trust your own thinking instead of that of the church?

Good luck with that.

And where are these documented citations of the Council of Florence?
Click to expand...
What do you mean the Church? These are opinions of Apologists. The Apologists says its ok in some cirucmstances. And the excorcists say to NEVER do it. So then whos right? Wheres the Church teaching on this?
 
phil19034 said:
The Church is against yoga. The issues is where to draw the line between exercise and new age practices.

Women of Grace and other groups who have studied yoga very closely all believe that we should not be doing any yoga religious stretches at all, and that we should only be taking part in exercises that do not have any of those stretches (for many reasons)
Click to expand...
Heres another source about the 11th paragraph down dailycatholic.org/history/17ecum11.htm
I just want to know if Pope Francis or anybody else isn’t going against church teaching.
 
Church_Militant said:
No argument from me. 👍

I believe there are far too many better forms of exercise anyway.

And the OP has still not shown us where Pope Francis and Judaism is tied into all this.

When he offers his findings from the council of Florence then maybe we can get started.

So far…all his remarks come off empty due to his lack of citation. 🤷
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“Lack of citation”. Um I posted a source earlier but you probably didn’t see it. Heres another site dailycatholic.org/history/17ecum11.htm go to the 11th paragraph down. I want to know what the Document is saying regarding Judasim. If its ok to celebrate festivals of the Old Covenant as long as people dont hold those festivals as having any means of salvation? And if NO then why is Pope Francis participating in these festivals? Heres one picture for example. cfnews.org/page88/files/bergo-hannwww.jpg Why I brought up Yoga was because many people think that Yoga isn’t entirely bad if you don’t include the Hindu Spirituality. Just as many people don’t think that Celebrating Jewish holidays is bad as long you dont hold them to having means of Salvation. I just want to know if the Council of Florence, doesn’t allow any participation in Jewish Festivals at all.
 
lethalbean95 said:
“Lack of citation”. Um I posted a source earlier but you probably didn’t see it. Heres another site dailycatholic.org/history/17ecum11.htm
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go to the 11th paragraph down. I want to know what the Document is saying regarding Judasim.Okay, got it. I’ll clip the paragraph to deal with the issue.
… Whoever, after the passion, places his hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself to them as necessary for salvation and as if faith in Christ without them could not save, sins mortally.
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I think this is the key and how you missed I can’t imagine because it plainly says **“places his hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself to them as necessary for salvation” **Has Pope Francis indicated in any way that he holds that belief? No he has not. Issue resolved…case closed…by virtue of reading what is there in the text.
Therefore it denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.
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Okay…here again, read what is there. Has Pope Francis indicated anything like this? No he has not. Therefore your issue is resolved.

By the way…did you ever read in the New Testament about the Judaizers? You should and then you’ll have a proper context for reading this particular document.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Judaizers

Who were the Judaizers? | Catholic Answers
I just want to know if the Council of Florence, doesn’t allow any participation in Jewish Festivals at all.
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🤷 I think I answered your issues. Until and unless Pope Francis tells us that we need to follow all the OT Law in order to be saved then there’s no problem. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for him to do that.

As for Yoga…I don’t see it as that good of an exercise program and I have seen too many practitioners get involved in Hinduism through it, (Though that also holds no interest for me…it just seems as pagan as the deities of Roman and Greek paganism.

One example I can relate to you is my long training in traditional Japanese Karate. I have read a great deal of ancient Japanese Budo material, (Budoshushinshu, Go Rin No Sho, and Hagakure) and found the philosophy of traditional Japanese martial arts to contain much wisdom in my studies. Zen was especially appealing though Buddhism or Shinto was not.

Anyone who cannot discern the difference between martial arts techniques and training and religion should find something else to do. Even the Hagakure tells us that the way of the Samurai and religion are not one and the same and should never become so to budoka.

Hopefully this clears things up for you.
 
Church_Militant said:
Okay, got it. I’ll clip the paragraph to deal with the issue.I think this is the key and how you missed I can’t imagine because it plainly says **“places his hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself to them as necessary for salvation” **Has Pope Francis indicated in any way that he holds that belief? No he has not. Issue resolved…case closed…by virtue of reading what is there in the text.
Okay…here again, read what is there. Has Pope Francis indicated anything like this? No he has not. Therefore your issue is resolved.

By the way…did you ever read in the New Testament about the Judaizers? You should and then you’ll have a proper context for reading this particular document.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Judaizers

Who were the Judaizers? | Catholic Answers

🤷 I think I answered your issues. Until and unless Pope Francis tells us that we need to follow all the OT Law in order to be saved then there’s no problem. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for him to do that.

As for Yoga…I don’t see it as that good of an exercise program and I have seen too many practitioners get involved in Hinduism through it, (Though that also holds no interest for me…it just seems as pagan as the deities of Roman and Greek paganism.

One example I can relate to you is my long training in traditional Japanese Karate. I have read a great deal of ancient Japanese Budo material, (Budoshushinshu, Go Rin No Sho, and Hagakure) and found the philosophy of traditional Japanese martial arts to contain much wisdom in my studies. Zen was especially appealing though Buddhism or Shinto was not.

Anyone who cannot discern the difference between martial arts techniques and training and religion should find something else to do. Even the Hagakure tells us that the way of the Samurai and religion are not one and the same and should never become so to budoka.

Hopefully this clears things up for you.
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I understand. One of the reasons I brought this issue up is because a lot of so-called “Catholics” say that Pope Francis is a heretic because hes participated in Jewish Festivals. Thats why I was trying to figure out what was the correct interpretation of the Council of Florence. Thanks for posting that little part that I missed by the way,
 
This fear of stretching exercises is crazy. These are basic human abilities owned by every person that has a body. Just because a religious group decides that something is holy to them doesn’t mean it automatically becomes evil for anyone else. Hindus were also praying before Christians existed. Should Catholics stop praying too? 🤷
 
lethalbean95 said:
I understand. One of the reasons I brought this issue up is because a lot of so-called “Catholics” say that Pope Francis is a heretic because hes participated in Jewish Festivals. Thats why I was trying to figure out what was the correct interpretation of the Council of Florence. Thanks for posting that little part that I missed by the way,
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I have found that if one sticks to what Pope Francis actually says and does versus what some people say he says and does and their respective opinions/interpretations of it that you find that Pope Francis has it all together and the other folks are full of baloney. (with apologies to the lunch meat)🙂
 
corefaith said:
This fear of stretching exercises is crazy. These are basic human abilities owned by every person that has a body. Just because a religious group decides that something is holy to them doesn’t mean it automatically becomes evil for anyone else. Hindus were also praying before Christians existed. Should Catholics stop praying too? 🤷
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If one does a search at Scholar google on Yoga and health there is ample evidence that it is a healing gift. Yoga predates Christianity and so can actually prepare one for the Gospel. Same goes for Buddhism. It comes down to how wide we see God’s plan of salvation. Think of all the billions of non Christians. I think a few Church documents even touch on that though I do not have them at my finger tips.
 
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