Pope Francis' Overtures To Protestants

[SojournerOnEarth]

You are probably aware of your Pope commemorating the Reformation and visiting a Lutheran church in Sweden. Here is a background article on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/...catholic-lutheran-reconciliation.html?mcubz=0. Article is just a general reference.

Did your church commemorate the Reformation this past year? If so, how? What do you think about his efforts towards reconciliation? Are you familiar with recent documents (as in post-Vatican 2) that change the way Catholics should think about and approach Protestants? Are you bound to those documents or free to disregard them? Are they official church teaching (which may be the same question, not sure here).

** celebrate changed to commemorate by author. Other Bold added to help clarify what this is about.

 

[Saxum]

I would never celebrate the Protestant Revolt because it severely wounded the body of Christ and led many souls to Hell. The Catholic Church is the True Church and all human beings need to convert to the One True Faith. I support ecumenism and inter religious dialogue that leads to conversions. The Catholic Church is missionary in her very nature and we must not lose sight of this fact.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

So you are in revolt against your own Pope? Sounds pretty Protestant to me. I think you just excommunicated yourself, if I understand things correctly.

 

[1ke]

I think “celebrate” somewhat overstates things.

Regarding documents of the Church I recommend mend Ut Unum Sint by John Paul II.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

I think “celebrate” somewhat overstates things.

Regarding documents of the Church I recommend mend Ut Unum Sint by John Paul II.

What, then would be a more accurate word choice, and what is pertinent in the document you referenced?

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

I read several Catholic documents pertaining to ecumenism. I think that was one of them. I came here in hopes of some decent communication, thinking that Catholics had read them and would apply the principles laid out in them. Let me say that from what I have seen so far, the situation is less than optimal.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

What, then would be a more accurate word choice, and what is pertinent in the document you referenced?

The word commemorate is what I’ve seen used most often when referring to the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. The commemoration is an opportunity for reflection and reconciliation.

There are some Catholics who don’t understand what the Church is doing with ecumenism, and they hold to some sort of erroneous view of non-Catholics.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

How about representing Holy Father Pope Francis accurately,

HERE IS THE HEADLINE

Pope Francis, in Sweden, Urges Catholic-Lutheran Reconciliation

Where is the word celebrating in the article that refers to what you allude to?

In fact in reading the article

This is a historic event,” she said. “I am a Catholic. We are not celebrating the Reformation. That was a sad separation. But we are celebrating taking a step closer. It is wonderful that we can work together instead of thinking about all of the differences that separate us.”

If you think this is celebrating , you are confused, the Pope celebrated Mass

Ms. Jodar said she planned to stay for an All Saints’ Day Mass that the pope will celebrate on Tuesday in Malmo for an estimated 19,000 people.

 

[Saxum]

So you are in revolt against your own Pope? Sounds pretty Protestant to me. I think you just excommunicated yourself, if I understand things correctly.

It’s apparent you don’t ‘understand things correctly’ because a Catholic cannot excommunicate oneself by disagreeing with a Church policy. Catholics are bound accept with docility whatever the Pope teaches on matters of Faith and Morals but they are free to disagree with the Pope when he expresses opinions. The way the Church deals with protestant ecclesial communities is policy and not part of the Sacred Deposit of Faith; therefore, I am free to disagree with this approach.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

I should say I did not celebrate the reformation. That is, I used to when I was Reformed, but now it is a point of great sadness. Commemorate, yes. Be aware of, for all the ramifications historically, yes. My church is the first post reformation Catholic church to be allowed to be built. Why would I ‘celebrate’ the events which led to that not being allowed to happen until centuries later?
I respect the holy father, and his admirable desire for bringing everyone back into the fold of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church, but I think he is often widely misreported as doing and saying things which he is not.

 

[PluniaZ]

Now the publicans and sinners drew near unto him to hear him.

And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying: “This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”

And he spoke to them this parable, saying:

"What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:

And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?

I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance."

Luke 15:1-10

 

[Saxum]

Luke 15:1-10

This Gospel passage isn’t relevant to the topic. All Catholics want our separated brethren to return to the One True Church that is founded on Peter. This thread is not about the return of the protestants - it’s about the apparent ‘celebration’ of the protestant revolt. There is nothing to celebrate about Father Luther’s deformation.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

How about representing Holy Father Pope Francis accurately,

Always a good idea. Perhaps that is why I am here asking about this.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

Now the publicans and sinners drew near unto him to hear him.

And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying: “This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”

And he spoke to them this parable, saying:

"What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:

And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?

I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance."

Luke 15:1-10

Your pope did come asking for forgiveness. From what? And curious that a Catholic would put him in that role in this parable.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

PluniaZ:

Luke 15:1-10

This Gospel passage isn’t relevant to the topic. All Catholics want our separated brethren to return to the One True Church that is founded on Peter. This thread is not about the return of the protestants - it’s about the apparent ‘celebration’ of the protestant revolt. There is nothing to celebrate about Father Luther’s deformation.

For my part, it would be good for Catholics to accept the insights of the Reformation. Having Mass in the vernacular was a good step. Your pope came in seeming humility. I am pondering as to what an appropriate response should be.

I do not think incendiary language (revolt, deformation) is conducive to dialog. Please stop using it. Thank you.

 

[PJH_74]

There certainly were issues around the Reformation, but it didn’t come from nowhere. There were a number of thing the Catholic church need reforming on.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

There certainly were issues around the Reformation, but it didn’t come from nowhere. There were a number of thing the Catholic church need reforming on.

I don’t want to rehash issues from 500 years ago. Pointless. We are where we are. Some of the reforms the Reformers were calling for happened at Trent.

I think we can learn from each other. And believe it or not, that is quite a concession for a Reformed Christian to say.

I think most Reformed Christians who observe what your Pope is doing are only responding with suspicion. I am giving the situation the benefit of the doubt. And a number of your fellow Catholics are not helping with their uncharitable and troll-like behavior. I am thinking about starting to report these posts (not yours). There is a mechanism.

 

[Saxum]

Having Mass in the vernacular was a good step.

It was a terrible step because it weakened the unity of the Roman Rite; it also contradicted the wishes of Vatican II and St. John XXIII.

I do not think incendiary language (revolt, deformation) is conducive to dialog. Please stop using it. Thank you.

I believe in accurate language. The Protestant Revolt was no reformation. It was disaster for Western Christendom and it destroyed the unity of the Church. The Catholic Church certainly needed reformation - it needed to reform how men lived but not what they believed. The Church had a genuine reform in the Council of Trent.

Luther wrote some terrible things about the Mass. His revolt is nothing to praise or celebrate - it’s something to mourn. However, I don’t hate Father Luther. I pity him because the historical record shows that he suffered terribly from mental health issues. Since he died excommunicated, we must pray that God forgives his many and great sins against the Faith. Lord have Mercy on his soul.

If you are a Protestant, I encourage you to learn about the Catholic Faith and come home to the fullness of Truth. Our Lord Jesus is waiting for you in the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[hvizsgyak]

I have been talking to my fellow Protestant friends, my fellow Catholic/Orthodox friends and my fellow atheist/agnostic friends about Christian unity for about 25 years and one thing I’ve noticed amongst a lot of these friends is that they have no idea of the history involved in Christianity. Many of my friends believe that their Protestant Church existed for as long as the Catholic Church. Many of them refuse to recognize that Jesus created the kernel that grew into the Catholic Church (and not some invisible Church that includes all forms of Christianity) by giving it the authority to make decisions in His name (loose and bind on Earth). Its hard to strive for unity if some don’t even recognize the history that brought us to where we are today.
And with the press a lot of the times misrepresenting what the Pope truly means, you have to understand a lot of us Catholics are skeptical about what is said in the news. I will continue to pray for Christian unity because I know that is the only way non believers will really take Christians seriously about God’s Word. Jesus’ prayed that we would be one as He is one with the Father. Let’s stop mistrusting one another and work together but let’s also recognize the past. God bless.

 

[Saxum]

And a number of your fellow Catholics are not helping with their uncharitable and troll-like behavior. I am thinking about starting to report these posts (not yours). There is a mechanism.

Report all you want. There’s nothing troll like about my posts. Our Holy Mother Church said far worse than what I’ve written here. Try reading St. Thomas More and you’ll see that my words are very tame. You can’t blame Catholics for not celebrating a man who wounded the body of Christ and wrote such vile things about Holy Mass. And I could continue with Luther’s role in the Peasant Revolt but I’ll stop here.