Pope Francis & Reform of Liturgy

[CNormal]

We know that Pope Emeritus Benedict was a strong and active supporter of the reform of the liturgy – to restore due reverence in the Mass.

Does anyone have any evidence, experience, or insight into our new Holy Father in this regard?

I would like to see him pick up the torch and run with it, probably more than would be wise for him. Nonetheless, I have my hopes.

 

[malphono]

As my late and very beloved grandmother taught me many many years ago: don’t expect anything. That way, if it doesn’t happen, you won’t be disappointed. I have tried to live by that philosophy for over 35 years. When I do, it works to a “T” but on the rare occasions when I didn’t, indeed I was disappointed.

 

[Megan7]

We know that Pope Emeritus Benedict was a strong and active supporter of the reform of the liturgy – to restore due reverence in the Mass.

Does anyone have any evidence, experience, or insight into our new Holy Father in this regard?

I would like to see him pick up the torch and run with it, probably more than would be wise for him. Nonetheless, I have my hopes.

 

[Arrependida]

We know that Pope Emeritus Benedict was a strong and active supporter of the reform of the liturgy – to restore due reverence in the Mass.

Does anyone have any evidence, experience, or insight into our new Holy Father in this regard?

I would like to see him pick up the torch and run with it, probably more than would be wise for him. Nonetheless, I have my hopes.

The only kind of evidence of our new Holy Father regarding liturgy are things like:
youtube.com/watch?v=RwS9umpEkvs

Better not to hope too much in this regard…

 

[Arrependida]

As my late and very beloved grandmother taught me many many years ago: don’t expect anything. That way, if it doesn’t happen, you won’t be disappointed. I have tried to live by that philosophy for over 35 years. When I do, it works to a “T” but on the rare occasions when I didn’t, indeed I was disappointed.

this

 

[Julia_Mae]

We know that Pope Emeritus Benedict was a strong and active supporter of the reform of the liturgy – to restore due reverence in the Mass.

Does anyone have any evidence, experience, or insight into our new Holy Father in this regard?

I would like to see him pick up the torch and run with it, probably more than would be wise for him. Nonetheless, I have my hopes.

God has a reason for this man to be sitting in the Chair of Peter. His ways and His reasons are not going to be ours, much of the time. I’m wondering at this time, if our Holy Father and our Church and our souls would be better served if we all stop speculating about what he would do that we would like, or might do that we wouldn’t, and just pray and wait and support him in whatever he does do. What he does will be God’s will, whether we love it or don’t.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

Arrependida, can you clarify what exactly you have a problem with in this video.

Did you have a problem with his homily? Did you understand what he said?

Or did you have a problem with how the Gospel acclamation and the prayers of the faithful were presented?

Or was it the “dancing puppets” around 2:50 in the video, which looks to have taken place before the Mass and he referenced in his homily?

Or maybe you have a problem with "children’s Masses in general?

 

[Catholic_Wife]

God has a reason for this man to be sitting in the Chair of Peter. His ways and His reasons are not going to be ours, much of the time.

I’m wondering at this time, if our Holy Father and our Church and our souls would be better served if we all stop speculating about what he would do that we would like, or might do that we wouldn’t, and just pray and wait and support him in whatever he does do. What he does will be God’s will, whether we love it or don’t.


If we believe that the Cardinals’ decision was influenced by the Holy Spirit, then we cannot second guess it, lest we second guess God Himself.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

God has a reason for this man to be sitting in the Chair of Peter. His ways and His reasons are not going to be ours, much of the time. I’m wondering at this time, if our Holy Father and our Church and our souls would be better served if we all stop speculating about what he would do that we would like, or might do that we wouldn’t, and just pray and wait and support him in whatever he does do. What he does will be God’s will, whether we love it or don’t.

:yup:

 

[Arrependida]

Arrependida, can you clarify what exactly you have a problem with in this video.

Did you have a problem with his homily? Did you understand what he said?

Or did you have a problem with how the Gospel acclamation and the prayers of the faithful were presented?

Or was it the “dancing puppets” around 2:50 in the video, which looks to have taken place before the Mass and he referenced in his homily?

Or maybe you have a problem with "children’s Masses in general?

Hi! How are you doing! I am from south america. I do understand spanish. I prefer reverent masses, I believe they better convey the doctrines of our faith to children, teen and adults alike. Unfortunately due to our Bishops and their generally liturgically liberal and leftist idological leanings, it is almost impossible to find reverent masses in South America for the last 30, 40 years. The irreverent masses kept me away from the church when I was a teen in South America. It just did not look like anything serious or important was happening up there . It felt more like a pretty silly party. Never like a holy sacrifice of Jesus for us in the calvary, like I came to learn the mass actually is 5 years ago here in America. It is never too late to learn, right? Yes, this kind of mess kept me away from Church and that is why I do no like it. At all.

 

[The_Scott]

Hi! How are you doing! I am from south america. I do understand spanish. I prefer reverent masses, I believe they better convey the doctrines of our faith to children, teen and adults alike. Unfortunately due to our Bishops and their generally liturgically liberal and leftist idological leanings, it is almost impossible to find reverent masses in South America for the last 30, 40 years. The irreverent masses kept me away from the church when I was a teen in South America. It just did not look like anything serious or important was happening up there . It felt more like a pretty silly party. Never like a holy sacrifice of Jesus for us in the calvary, like I came to learn the mass actually is 5 years ago here in America. It is never too late to learn, right? Yes, this kind of mess kept me away from Church and that is why I do no like it. At all.

Isn’t it possible that then-Cardinal Bergoglio was “forced” (not the exact right word) into that situation? As in, he was contacted ahead of time, showed up, and everything was set up without his knowledge?

I don’t know. We’ll see.

 

[CNormal]

I didn’t mean anything sinister in my “wondering” about Pope Francis’ views or future actions with regard to the liturgy. It is something important to me so, naturally, I wonder. Of course, he has many things on his plate!! Zillions of things. But I am only human and wonder about things that I care about. And of course, I have absolutely no desire or plan to resist whatever he does or does not do.

But, I thought someone might know something more specific - not so much a video of something he was involved with - but something he wrote or said.

I have heard that he was one of the first bishops to voice his support for Pope Benedict when he encouraged the restoration of the Tridentine Mass. That, I believe, is a positive sign.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

Hi! How are you doing! I am from south america. I do understand spanish. I prefer reverent masses

, I believe they better convey the doctrines of our faith to children, teen and adults alike.
I understand this completely. I attend the Mass I do because the style of worship seems more “serious”.

Unfortunately due to our Bishops and their generally liturgically liberal and leftist idological leanings

, it is almost impossible to find reverent masses in South America for the last 30, 40 years.
I also understand this. It has been a topic of discussion between my husband and me since we first met.

The irreverent masses kept me away from the church when I was a teen

in South America. It just did not look like anything serious or important was happening up there . It felt more like a pretty silly party. Never like a holy sacrifice of Jesus for us in the calvary, like I came to learn the mass actually is 5 years ago here in America. It is never too late to learn, right? Yes, this kind of mess kept me away from Church and that is why I do no like it. At all.
I’m sorry that this kept you away. While this style of music at Mass is not necessarily my taste, the people at the Spanish Masses I have attended have been reverent and serious about what was happening. I guess I appreciate their joy and celebration rather than the dourness I’ve seen at some Masses. Then again, I’ve never been to South America and don’t know the attitudes and seriousness of the people there. I doubt that Pope Francis would have a cavalier attitude toward the Mass or the Eucharist.

 

[Arrependida]

Isn’t it possible that then-Cardinal Bergoglio was “forced” (not the exact right word) into that situation? As in, he was contacted ahead of time, showed up, and everything was set up without his knowledge?

I don’t know. We’ll see.

As you can see on youtube he used to do this ëvent"every year. There is 2011, 2012, and so forth…
After all he is a jesuit, if I am not mistaken they don’t care so much for liturgy. And besides he is south american, and down there they definetely are stuck in the 70s in this regard. (personal experience and research)

Hey fellow catholics, it is ok, I do not like this liturgical abuses but he certainly has other qualities…I will try to learn to love him. But I believe it is important to know the truth. The truth will set you free right? How to love someone that you know nothing about? I certainly do not want to fall in love with a fantasy or do some kind of personality cult…

 

[ProVobis]

I’m sorry that this kept you away. While this style of music at Mass is not necessarily my taste, the people at the Spanish Masses I have attended have been reverent and serious about what was happening. I guess I appreciate their joy and celebration rather than the dourness I’ve seen at some Masses. Then again, I’ve never been to South America and don’t know the attitudes and seriousness of the people there. I doubt that Pope Francis would have a cavalier attitude toward the Mass or the Eucharist.

Same here. All the Spanish Masses I’ve attended have been amplified guitars and music clapping. Fewer than half receive communion but their devotion seemed to be authentic to me.

 

[coranewf]

God has a reason for this man to be sitting in the Chair of Peter. His ways and His reasons are not going to be ours, much of the time. I’m wondering at this time, if our Holy Father and our Church and our souls would be better served if we all stop speculating about what he would do that we would like, or might do that we wouldn’t, and just pray and wait and support him in whatever he does do. What he does will be God’s will, whether we love it or don’t.

Well said!

 

[Arrependida]

I have heard that he was one of the first bishops to voice his support for Pope Benedict when he encouraged the restoration of the Tridentine Mass. That, I believe, is a positive sign.

Unfortunetely I do not have a direct quote from Pope Francis, but here is a link to a blog in english which explain it a bit. The text has several links to their argentinian sources that date from 2010, 2011, etc.

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-summorum-pontificum-was-blocked-and.html

 

[DexUK]

Why do people seem to believe that there should only one strict ‘style’ of worship within the Mass?

‘Solemn’ Masses are all very well but not everyone’s ‘cup of tea’ any more than ‘youthful’ less ‘formal’ Masses are not appropriate for everyone either.

Moreover, why is it that a priest or a bishop who presides at a Mass of one style should be automatically derided for doing so and held up as an ‘example’ of a bad presider of Mass when the following day he may be celebrating a Mass in the other style?

I would remind people here that upon the promulgation of the Motu Proprio regarding the Extraordinary Form, Cardinal Bergoglio, as he was then, organised a Mass in the EF in his Cathedral within TWO days…

While the OF may be his personal preference, he has done nothing to hinder the traditional form of Mass and he deserves neither opprobrium nor suspicion of his liturgical credentials in this regard.

 

[PJD1987]

Why do people seem to believe that there should only one strict ‘style’ of worship within the Mass?

‘Solemn’ Masses are all very well but not everyone’s ‘cup of tea’ any more than ‘youthful’ less ‘formal’ Masses are not appropriate for everyone either.

Moreover, why is it that a priest or a bishop who presides at a Mass of one style should be automatically derided for doing so and held up as an ‘example’ of a bad presider of Mass when the following day he may be celebrating a Mass in the other style?

I would remind people here that upon the promulgation of the Motu Proprio regarding the Extraordinary Form, Cardinal Bergoglio, as he was then, organised a Mass in the EF in his Cathedral within TWO days…

While the OF may be his personal preference, he has done nothing to hinder the traditional form of Mass and he deserves neither opprobrium nor suspicion of his liturgical credentials in this regard.

Also, I found his first Mass at the Sistine Chapel very reverent, despite the nit-picking from some circles.

To read some reactions I would have thought there would be dancing clowns and a puppet parade appearing from the Room of Tears…

 

[DexUK]

Also, I found his first Mass at the Sistine Chapel very reverent, despite the nit-picking from some circles.

To read some reactions I would have thought there would be dancing clowns and a puppet parade appearing from the Room of Tears…

Quite… the phrase “there’s no pleasing some people” comes to mind…

Personally, I think the Holy Father has it just right: Christianity is not just for the ritual, it’s also for the living.

Our ritual supports and feeds our lives, and some lives need feeding differently than others. One size does not fit all.