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Arwing
Guest
Really insightful stuff IMO, I had never really thought if it like that.
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jack63
Guest
It is great to see how the commandment to Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as yourself fits in perfectly with the “Our Father” in the sense that there is no “I”.
Sometimes when I pray the our father, I actually wondered why the words “us” and “our” are used, while I was alone at the moment. Pope Francis insights here give the prayer significantly more meaning for me.
Sometimes when I pray the our father, I actually wondered why the words “us” and “our” are used, while I was alone at the moment. Pope Francis insights here give the prayer significantly more meaning for me.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I like Pope Francis, but are there really people in the world over age 15 who bother to pray, who aren’t already aware that we should be praying for other people and considering other people’s sufferings and such?
I mean, we have a whole Prayer Intentions subforum right on here and a lot of the individual prayer intentions themselves are asking prayers for someone else other than the thread poster.
I always feel kind of bad for saying something like that, because I know we can all use improvement when it comes to putting others ahead of ourselves, but sometimes my response is kind of a “Thank you, Father Obvious” when priests, or Popes, say these sorts of things.
I mean, we have a whole Prayer Intentions subforum right on here and a lot of the individual prayer intentions themselves are asking prayers for someone else other than the thread poster.
I always feel kind of bad for saying something like that, because I know we can all use improvement when it comes to putting others ahead of ourselves, but sometimes my response is kind of a “Thank you, Father Obvious” when priests, or Popes, say these sorts of things.
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jack63
Guest
A few things…First, Pope Francis did something that I’m not at all good at. He made a very concise argument/point about our faith. I’m not good at concise. The “Our Father” that we say at every mass contains no “I”. When you’ve had to talk to friends, family, and colleagues who are not even Christian let alone Catholic, concise descriptions of our faith are really really helpful. Someday I’ll use the no “I” thing in the “Our Father”. It is connection that never occurred to me before.
Second, he actually said more, so it is important to put this in context. There was another expanded article on this.
Pope: True prayer is compassionate, no hypocrisy or tricks - Vatican News
Pope Francis tells the faithful during his weekly General Audience that prayer with God is a silent dialogue with love at its core, where there is no ...
www.vaticannews.va
A Pope actually said…
Other Popes have said such things? Really, and with such bluntness?..I don’t think so. I’ve seen prayer that appears to be isolated, tribal, excluding of others, or just a physical high. He calls it out!
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
First, the point of there not being an “I” in “Our Father” is fine. That’s a reminder that we should always think of others and also realize we are in a community of faith.
However, as a longtime anxiety sufferer, I don’t think there is anything wrong with using prayer as a way to help oneself relax. It doesn’t mean you suddenly wall yourself off and forget that other people are suffering too. There is nothing wrong with bringing one’s own concerns to God (I’ve been told by priests to do this very thing) or using prayer as a relaxation rather than using alcohol or some mindless TV show or worse yet, something sinful. I know the Pope isn’t saying that this is wrong, but it could easily be read that way.
It’s kind of like a few weeks ago when he talked about people who just repeat words when they pray and aren’t really sincere. This Pope seems to be very concerned with/ fixated on Catholics whom he thinks are insincere or self-centered. It’s not an unusual way for a person to speak if that person has been very involved with social justice; I’ve been hearing this sort of thing my whole life. But it does come off as a bit tone deaf to those of us who pray sincerely both for ourselves and our own needs and also for others. It seems like he’s always scolding.
I have wondered lately if the Holy Father is stressed or upset. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was. It’s just the tone of some of the stuff he has been saying.
However, as a longtime anxiety sufferer, I don’t think there is anything wrong with using prayer as a way to help oneself relax. It doesn’t mean you suddenly wall yourself off and forget that other people are suffering too. There is nothing wrong with bringing one’s own concerns to God (I’ve been told by priests to do this very thing) or using prayer as a relaxation rather than using alcohol or some mindless TV show or worse yet, something sinful. I know the Pope isn’t saying that this is wrong, but it could easily be read that way.
It’s kind of like a few weeks ago when he talked about people who just repeat words when they pray and aren’t really sincere. This Pope seems to be very concerned with/ fixated on Catholics whom he thinks are insincere or self-centered. It’s not an unusual way for a person to speak if that person has been very involved with social justice; I’ve been hearing this sort of thing my whole life. But it does come off as a bit tone deaf to those of us who pray sincerely both for ourselves and our own needs and also for others. It seems like he’s always scolding.
I have wondered lately if the Holy Father is stressed or upset. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was. It’s just the tone of some of the stuff he has been saying.
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jesusmademe
Guest
There is an “I” in the Jesus prayer, right?
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jack63
Guest
I believe there is a lot more going on with what Pope Francis is saying.
As for anxiety, if a technique works well for you, this sounds good… I’m certainly not in any position to dispense significant advice on such things here…
Perhaps a short story though…maybe it will help…maybe not? I had a family member who was in therapy. They also used meditation very similar to centering prayer (where you repeat a phrase) as a way to put things in context for them. They were agnostic at the time. I was told by my family member this technique genuinely helped put things (including anxiety) into perspective. Years later this family did come back to the Catholic Church. Did the meditation help bring my family member back to the Church. I don’t know. It certainly did not hurt. It may have helped in that there was a gradual healing process that brought them back to the Church and the meditation played and indirect role in that.
Was my family member praying in using this meditation? No. However, the mediation seemed to be a positive healing technique.
As for anxiety, if a technique works well for you, this sounds good… I’m certainly not in any position to dispense significant advice on such things here…
Perhaps a short story though…maybe it will help…maybe not? I had a family member who was in therapy. They also used meditation very similar to centering prayer (where you repeat a phrase) as a way to put things in context for them. They were agnostic at the time. I was told by my family member this technique genuinely helped put things (including anxiety) into perspective. Years later this family did come back to the Catholic Church. Did the meditation help bring my family member back to the Church. I don’t know. It certainly did not hurt. It may have helped in that there was a gradual healing process that brought them back to the Church and the meditation played and indirect role in that.
Was my family member praying in using this meditation? No. However, the mediation seemed to be a positive healing technique.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I was fortunate today to hear the Pope’s entire speech from which the quote was taken in the car, as I was driving somewhere and WAOB aired the entire speech, translated to English, as part of their program “St. Peter is Still Speaking”.
The Pope’s talk was a bit odd in that the entire first part of the talk had to do with going and being in communion individually with God, maybe even without words, just looking at him and him looking at you, and being honest with each other. While this was great stuff, it was also very much about the individual.
From there, the Pope kind of abruptly shifted into how the Our Father contains no “I” but instead is about “we” and “our” and being a community, and the importance of bringing the needs of the community before the Lord, so you aren’t just praying for yourself but for the needs of the group, friends, neighbors and even enemies, and not thinking you’re better than others because you pray. This again seemed like pretty basic stuff, but maybe it’s mostly tourists at the Pope’s audiences rather than “prayer warriors”. It didn’t sound so finger-pointy in the context of the whole speech as it did when taken out of context, though. My biggest issue with it when listening was trying to reconcile it with the first part of his talk.
He did have a good ending though. He said a prison chaplain had once asked him, "What is the opposite of “I” "? The Pope responded with “You” and was told that is the wrong answer and leads to conflict. The answer to “I” is “We”, which resolves conflict.
The Pope’s talk was a bit odd in that the entire first part of the talk had to do with going and being in communion individually with God, maybe even without words, just looking at him and him looking at you, and being honest with each other. While this was great stuff, it was also very much about the individual.
From there, the Pope kind of abruptly shifted into how the Our Father contains no “I” but instead is about “we” and “our” and being a community, and the importance of bringing the needs of the community before the Lord, so you aren’t just praying for yourself but for the needs of the group, friends, neighbors and even enemies, and not thinking you’re better than others because you pray. This again seemed like pretty basic stuff, but maybe it’s mostly tourists at the Pope’s audiences rather than “prayer warriors”. It didn’t sound so finger-pointy in the context of the whole speech as it did when taken out of context, though. My biggest issue with it when listening was trying to reconcile it with the first part of his talk.
He did have a good ending though. He said a prison chaplain had once asked him, "What is the opposite of “I” "? The Pope responded with “You” and was told that is the wrong answer and leads to conflict. The answer to “I” is “We”, which resolves conflict.
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dochawk
Guest
A “me”, not an “I”–and it is an explicit acknowledgment of one’s own sinful status.
The Communion Prayer is similar in the use of the singular: " . . . sinners, of whom I am the worst."
While the Jewish and Christian relationship with God and worship is fundamentally communal, emphasizing others’ sins is prideful and obnoxious . . .
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Dan_Defender
Guest
It is also my experience that when we pray for others God has a way to reward us too. 
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Hoosier-Daddy
Guest
“There is no I in team. But you cant spell win without it”
There is no I in the our father but you cant spell hallowed be thy name without “me”
This is fun. The Pope has started a game of sports cliches.
There is no I in the our father but you cant spell hallowed be thy name without “me”
This is fun. The Pope has started a game of sports cliches.
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