Pope Francis to wash feet of prisoners in pre-Easter Mass

[Brendan_64]

Well, observable liturgical law would indicate it, wouldn’t it?

Is the Pope infallible in this matter?

How can the Pope do something in contravention of a law he is not governed by?

He is the Pope, he is the law.

From Fr. Z’s Blog: Liturgical law prescribes that only men (viri in Latin) can be chosen for that rite.

And a great many bishops (probably most) have been granted permission to allow the washing of women’s feet in their diocese, and have been for many years now (Pope Benedict was happy to permit this). The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit, and therefore can given permission for bishops to bypass many Church laws. Just because a Church law exists doesn’t mean that the Pope cannot grant permission for this law to be broken.

The Pope is the supreme Earthly monarch of our Church. The will of the Pope supersedes the laws of the Church.

 

[Moore11]

He is the Pope, he is the law.

I cannot say if he did or did not. But That quote sounds more like a king or a pharaoh than a Pope.

A Pope is the leader of the Church. he is the Vicar of Christ. He is our leader. He is not the “Law”. He can, however, legislate.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

How can the Pope do something in contravention of a law he is not governed by?

He is the Pope, he is the law.

Really? The Pope is the sole arbiter of The Magisterium? Do tell.

If that’s true then what about all of those bad Popes through the ages?

 

[Lormar]

The will of the Pope supersedes the laws of the Church.

Except divine and natural law - I read somewhere today that a pope is as subject to them as any Catholic.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

And a great many bishops (probably most) have been granted permission to allow the washing of women’s feet in their diocese, and have been for many years now (Pope Benedict was happy to permit this). The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit, and therefore can given permission for bishops to bypass many Church laws. Just because a Church law exists doesn’t mean that the Pope cannot grant permission for this law to be broken.

Again I cite Canon Lawyer Ed Peters:

" 3. Few people seem able to articulate when a pope is bound by canon law (e.g., when canon law legislates matters of divine or natural law) and when he may ignore it (e.g., c. 378 § 1 on determining the suitability of candidates for the episcopate or appointing an excessive number of papal electors contrary to UDG 33). Those are not hard cases. Most Church laws, however, fall between these two poles and require careful thinking lest confusion for—nay, dissension among—the faithful arise. Exactly as happened here. Now, even in that discussion, the question is not usually whether the pope is bound to comply with the law (he probably is not so bound), but rather, how he can act contrary to the law without implying, especially for others who remain bound by the law but who might well find it equally inconvenient, that inconvenient laws may simply be ignored because, well, because the pope did it.

1. A pope’s ignoring of a law is not an abrogation of the law but, especially where his action reverberated around the world, it seems to render the law moot. For the sake of good order, then, the Mandatum rubrics should be modified to permit the washing of women’s feet or, perhaps upon the advice of Scriptural and theological experts, the symbolism of apostolic ministry asserted by some to be contained in the rite should be articulated and the rule reiterated. What is not good is to leave a crystal clear law on the books but show no intention of expecting anyone to follow it. That damages the effectiveness of law across the board."

 

[Brendan_64]

I cannot say if he did or did not. But That quote sounds more like a king or a pharaoh than a Pope.

The Pope** is **the Earthly monarch of our Church. The church is not a democracy, or a republic with a written, binding constitution. The Pope is our constitution, and he is accountable to nobody on Earth.

The Holy Spirit guides and works through our Pope.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

The Pope** is **the Earthly monarch of our Church. The church is not a democracy, or a republic with a written, binding constitution. The Pope is our constitution, and he is accountable to nobody on Earth.

The Holy Spirit guides and works through our Pope.

Have there been any bad Popes through the ages?

 

[Brendan_64]

Except divine and natural law - I read somewhere today that a pope is as subject to them as any Catholic.

And I hardly think that the washing (or not) of women’s feet comes under divine or natural law, do you?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

And I hardly think that the washing (or not) of women’s feet comes under divine or natural law, do you?

The legality of it seems to be settled by the citation of Canon Lawyer Ed Peters.

However, the ramifications are hardly settled. The Pope needs to bring clarity to this. All this is doing is causing more fracturing and more confusion in an already divided and bewildered Church.

Not good by any measure.

 

[Brendan_64]

Have there been any bad Popes through the ages?

Yes there have been Popes who have greatly sinned, but bad Popes or not the Holy Spirit works through them and the Church moves forward just the same.

Are you suggesting that because there have been bad Popes that we ought not to trust any Pope?

Or are you suggesting that Pope Francis is a bad Pope because he washes the feet of women.

Regardless of this, the fact is that the Pope is not bound by the laws of the Church. Whether or not you think he ought to be matters not.

 

[Lormar]

And I hardly think that the washing (or not) of women’s feet comes under divine or natural law, do you?

No, I don’t; I was just saying that I read somewhere that he is subject to divine and natural law as much as anyone else.

 

[Moore11]

The Pope** is **the Earthly monarch of our Church. The church is not a democracy, or a republic with a written, binding constitution. The Pope is our constitution, and he is accountable to nobody on Earth.

The Holy Spirit guides and works through our Pope.

The Pope is a monarch? Could you direct me to something along these lines?

The church is not a democracy, or a republic with a written, binding constitution.

Absolutely! too many think it is.
We do have something written though and binding…

The Pope is our constitution, and he is accountable to nobody on Earth.

Where are you getting this from?
he is not accountable to me on matters of faith. I’ll concede that!
The Holy spirit guides and works through a man. A free will, man.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Yes there have been Popes who have greatly sinned, but bad Popes or not the Holy Spirit works through them and the Church moves forward just the same.

Are you suggesting that because there have been bad Popes that we ought not to trust any Pope?

Not at all. I’m suggesting we should educate ourselves with our faith and “trust but verify”. Isn’t that a good thing? Are you suggesting that we should trust all Popes blindly?

Or are you suggesting that Pope Francis is a bad Pope because he washes the feet of women.

I suggesting that he needs to be more aware and sensitive to the world wide repercussions of his actions. Is that such a bad thing to ask?

Regardless of this, the fact is that the Pope is not bound by the laws of the Church. Whether or not you think he ought to be matters not.

His not bound by Church Law? Really?

So if he declared that Christ was not God - does that make it legal and true?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

No, I don’t; I was just saying that I read somewhere that he is subject to divine and natural law as much as anyone else.

That is correct. He is not bound by canon law or custom though. Br JR has spoken of this and my priest has also said that when teaching our youth.

 

[Moore11]

So if he declared that Christ was not God - does that make it legal and true?

The Pope could not declare that.
That is where I differ with you.

 

[Brendan_64]

However, the ramifications are hardly settled. The Pope needs to bring clarity to this. All this is doing is causing more fracturing and more confusion in an already divided and bewildered Church.

Not good by any measure.

Outside of CAF I have not met one, not one, Catholic who is remotely disturbed by Pope Francis’s washing of the feet of women.

The Church is not fractured or divided (with the exception of a very small minority) and I have already met people who are coming back to the Church and people of other Christian denominations who are now coming to our Masses, as a result of the actions and example of Pope Francis.

Red shoes, mozetta, not following the verbatum rubrics of the mandatum, there really are a lot more important things in the Church than this. Let’s move on and focus on what is really important.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

The Pope could not declare that.
That is where I differ with you.

You misunderstand. I don’t think he could declare that either.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Outside of CAF I have not met one, not one, Catholic who is remotely disturbed by Pope Francis’s washing of the feet of women.

Uhm… do you not read Catholic blogs? Fr Z, Jimmy Akin, Mark Shea?

Because there have been some lively debates about this on those sites, and others.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

The Church is not fractured or divided (with the exception of a very small minority) and I have already met people who are coming back to the Church and people of other Christian denominations who are now coming to our Masses, as a result of the actions and example of Pope Francis.

Wah?

Are you serious? I don’t know what Catholic world you live in, but there is plenty of division.

Ratzinger has been talking about the coming schism for years.

 

[Brendan_64]

I suggesting that he needs to be more aware and sensitive to the world wide repercussions of his actions. Is that such a bad thing to ask?

Oh I think he is very aware of the worldwide repercussions of his actions. His actions set a positive example for humanity, he knew exactly what he was doing. If a few ultra-conservative Catholics get upset as a result of failing to see what the pope is doing and what, then that’s their problem really; the greater good is more important than keeping a few ultra-conservatives happy.

Don’t forget that Pope Benedict authorised a great many bishops to allow the washing of women’s feet in their dioceses. Pope Francis is merely doing what Pope Benedict authorised a great many bishops to allow their priests to do.