How are youth offenders in a juvenile detention centre betrayers? How are they any worse than the rest of us? Are all the people who walk down the aisle to receive Communion on any Sunday ‘whiter than white’?
As the Sovereign of a nation, he has jurisdiction over everything, including the bank. However, the Vatican City State is run like any other European country. There is a head of government, the Secretary of State. There is also a parliament that reports to the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State reports to the pope.
I see the issue as bigger than this. Whether the pope washes the feet of clergymen at the Vatican or young people in a juvenile detention center, it comes down to the same thing. The reason that people are discussing it so much is that people want to make policy for the pope.
Geez…I do not agree with this at all. I started the thread and hoped that people would discuss it at length. As the Vicar of Christ, the Pope showing us how we should live… As Christ did. Giving to and caring for the least of us. Living out the corporal works of mercy.
Thank you. I didn’t know such detail.
I think some people are just making the point that there is more to being the Pope than JUST modeling Christ like behavior. Of course he should do that, but he also needs to “run” the Church effectively. If you believe the Church is run best by having the Pope follow certain traditions then that is important to you. Remember, Jesus didn’t have to manage the Curia, appoint Cardinals, preside over masses, or any of the other “business” that the Pope has to do.
Sigh. I think you’ve been repeating the explanation over 10 times now. Sigh
BTW, I don’t know if this has been mentioned already (I haven’t read through the thread), but part of the reason why Pope Francis will be washing feet at the detention center is that the Basilica of St. John the Lateran is not YET officially turned over to him.
Merely following through on the analogy of another poster who mentioned that Jesus washed the feet of Judas, hence what is the problem with washing the feet of 12 juvenile prisoners?
I couldn’t disagree with this more…the only thing that matters is aspiring to be Christlike… In all of yours, mine or the Popes actions …including appointing bishops as Christ did, including saying mass as Christ did, including ministering to the poor as Christ did, including dealing with the very human government/pharasis as Christ did, up to and including dying for the sake of souls like Christ, St Peter and countless others.
This I agree with…And just for the record, I think its great he’s going to the prison
I will tell you where St. Thomas the Apostle Parish and School off of while - I personally witnessed it and at that time my girlfriend’s sister was a liturgical dancer. 7377 SW 64th Street, Miami, FL 33143. Late 80’s early 90’s. I can give you more but this one was pretty hard core.
I guess it depends what we mean by “Christ like”.
I agree with you, but unfortunately I really think Pope Francis is going to wash women’s feet as well.One of two things must happen for the washing of feet to make sense*:
The first option is practically difficult because, well, imagine the cries and wails and tears.
- It needs to be restricted to men, and the symbolism here needs to be clearly elucidated that it is not only an act of service, but an act of service to the Apostles, intended to be an example to them or whatever.
- It can be open to men and women, but if this happens, all pretense of the washing of feet having anything whatsoever to do with the Apostles and Holy Orders needs to be dropped completely, and the symbolism needs to be clearly elucidated that it is only, only an act of service and absolutely, precisely nothing more.
The second option is difficult because it divorces the liturgical symbolism from the Biblical and Apostolic reality, or at most, it is only a half-truth. No one denies that Jesus’s washing of feet was, on some level, an act of service. But there is more to it than that, no? After all, I thought there was a point to Jesus limiting His feet washing to the Last Supper/Apostles event. Had he wanted to wash the feet of everyone and anyone, he would have done it. But he didn’t. The Biblical and historical and Apostolic event doesn’t align with widespread current practice of washing the feet of women. It doesn’t add up. Furthermore, a second difficulty with this option is that Holy Thursday Mass is about the institution of two sacraments: Eucharist and Holy Orders. Naturally, the question is, what does the washing of feet have to do with Holy Orders if women are allowed to have their feet washed? Perhaps it can be said that Holy Orders is a Sacrament of service. Fine, no one denies that. But again, why did Jesus only wash the feet of His Apostles? Was it just convenient since they were the only ones there? I don’t think anyone would suggest that. That would mean the washing of feet of the Apostles didn’t really mean anything. There are two things going on: the Washing of Feet, and the Who Got Their Feet Washed by Whom.
If the status quo is maintained and we still go on about how this liturgical act is intrinsically connected to the Apostles, that is, if women are allowed to have their feet washed and we still say this is because Jesus washed the feet of the Apostles, then that is at the very least enormously confusing symbolism, given the fact that women cannot receive Orders.
My practical option of choice would be a third, namely, to eliminate the washing of feet so we don’t have to constantly tip-toe over political correctness and fidelity to the Bible.
*I’m not suggesting that any of these things must be done. The status quo can be maintained, as usual, but we will remain in a state of limbo and uncertainty about what, precisely, the liturgical washing of feet is supposed to be in the first place. I am not saying anything has to change, I am just saying the status quo does not work, and I’ve offered what are, in my judgement, the easiest and most practical courses of action.
Unfortunately, there are some people all over the Internet challenging the pope’s decision as if they had a right to do so. This is the part that I find totally unacceptable. When did we get the right to judge anything that the pope does, unless it’s a sin?
I have said it. If you watch EWTN, the friars there have said it. The Jesuits have said it. Parish priests have said it. I’m not sure why this is so difficult to understand. I can understand saying that it’s unusual. I’m a Franciscan. Most Jesuit thoughts and practices are unusual to me. Most Franciscan thoughts and practices are unusual for the Jesuits. If Cardinal O’Malley had been elected pope, we would be watching a pope in a brown habit and sandals, rather than a white cassock for anything other than choir dress.Sigh. I think you’ve been repeating the explanation over 10 times now. Sigh
What you just said (bolded) is very Jesuit. It’s in the Principle and Foundation found in the First Week of the Spiritual Exercises. I am beginning to suspect that Pope Francis’ Papacy will be of Franciscan theology framed in the Spiritual Exercises.
The Jesuit answer to this would be what St. Ignatius said. Do whatever is best for your soul first, then whatever is good for the neighbor’s soul.
I’ll tell you what I commanded my brothers tonight. If it’s not a sin and the pope wishes to do it, we have no other choice, no other thought, no other preference and no other desire than what he chooses, what he thinks, what he prefers and what he desires, because only through him do we have a continuous line that leads us back to Christ. If we break with him in small things, what is to keep us from breaking with him in more difficult things?
This is not a dogmatic requirement. Otherwise, the pope would be bound to this.
The liturgy has never said that the washing of the feet is about the Apostles. It’s about Christ’s diakonia.
There was no one else in the room. The custom was for men and women to eat the pasch separately. He himself had said that he wanted to eat it alone with them.
The diaconate is part of Holy Orders. Every priest and bishop is also a deacon. A presbyter does not cease to be a deacon when he is ordained priest. A bishop does not cease to be a presbyter when he is ordained bishop.
Every biblical scholar has. Join the crowd. The pope certainly knows his bible. That’s his doctorate.
No it’s not. The act is about Christ, not about the Apostles. You’re putting the focus on the wrong place. Jesus commands the Apostles to do a he does. He throws the light on himself and away from them.
Again, learn to think with the pope in all things but sin.I agree with you, but unfortunately I really think Pope Francis is going to wash women’s feet as well.