Pope Gregory XVII

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This website suggests the idea that there has been a pope in exile.

thepopeinred.com/index.htm

It mainly talks about how he was elected but hushed by the conclave by exterior forces or something to that nature. Does anyone know more about this claim?

The site also outlines prophecies by saints to further employ their point. What does anyone else think about this?
 
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speaker1777:
This website suggests the idea that there has been a pope in exile.

thepopeinred.com/index.htm

It mainly talks about how he was elected but hushed by the conclave by exterior forces or something to that nature. Does anyone know more about this claim?

The site also outlines prophecies by saints to further employ their point. What does anyone else think about this?
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Speaker,

My first reaction is that there is so much vitriol on this site and in its links to TCW that I do not trust it. Apart from this being a gut reaction, I will offer you Jude 9-10, in which Jude notes that you can tell false teachers because they revile things and people so much.

One of the TCW links mentions Hutton Gibson and Inside the Vatican magazine. That magazine (to which I subscribe–it’s an EXTREMELY good magazine) recently published an article explaining how the “Siri Thesis” of which this web site speaks has recently been demonstrated to be false.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
Speaker,

My first reaction is that there is so much vitriol on this site and in its links to TCW that I do not trust it. Apart from this being a gut reaction, I will offer you Jude 9-10, in which Jude notes that you can tell false teachers because they revile things and people so much.

One of the TCW links mentions Hutton Gibson and Inside the Vatican magazine. That magazine (to which I subscribe–it’s an EXTREMELY good magazine) recently published an article explaining how the “Siri Thesis” of which this web site speaks has recently been demonstrated to be false.
  • Liberian
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I am sorry to say but, that inside the Vatican magazine is not to be trusted at all. I am sorry, but the way it speaks about the Siri thesis is not to show the truth. but apperantly, to decieve. There is a refutation of that two penced article eclipseofthechurch.com/RebuttalArticle.htm

As for Jude 9-10, Saint Jude is talking about heretics who, using it as a red herring, attack the things which are not according to their caprices so as to draw others away from it. Martin Luther could npt answer the doctrine of Thomas Aquinas, so he instead, honoured him with a torrent of abuse. Now, what you assert on TCW, that they abuse Novus Ordo followers is withot foundation, as they rebuke and show what they thing is wrong. They do not act like Martin Luther. I am not affiriming or supporting the Siri Thesis, before I get locked for sedevacantism but I tell you, research it and try rebutting the Siri reality.
 
Cardinal Siri publically accepted the papacies of John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I and JPII
 
Through Mary Immaculate,

I mean not to intrude, but, would you please research the Siri Thesis a bit please? I am in no way confirming that I am a Siri thesis supporter but, that website(todayscatholicworld) does not seem to be a lying and a decieving website. I found it so honest and sincere that I have never found the like.

If it was made to make distrust among Catholics, why would he(Mr. David Hobson), spend so much money on his websites? Why would he go to all that trouble to prove a point which, according to you, is false? Why would he even bother? The majority who have heard about the Siri thesis reject because it does not go according to their liking. It is one thing to become a traditional catholic, but to be one who is with a Pope who others think he is not, is to be subject to the biggest persecutions and calumnies. When my friend talks to his father about the Siri thesis, his parents can’t answer him. And he[my friend] brought all his arguments from TCW.

As for recognizing the alleged anti-popes as Popes, Siri was probably refering to them by name only-he was not under their authority is he was the Pope.
 
Also, notice that Siri was under grave and unjust durress from the freemasons who apparantly infiltrated the Vatican. he was too weak to speak in the Council(maybe he was poisoned?) and that, if they really did kill him, nobody would know what happened in the 1958 conclave, and the Church really would come to an eend. This is, supposing that the Siri thesis really did happen.

There is a refutation on that John Vennari’s attack on the alleged Papacy of Gregory XVII. It shows just how Siri never really did celebrate a, strictly speaking Novus ordo Mass, how he was under no autorithy of the seemingly anti-popes, and all that. This of course, if ever the Siri thesis really did happen.

As for Siri signing the council degrees, yes, he did sign them, but Siri, in a fit of love for Mary Immaculate said: we will not be bound by these decrees. Notice that he used we, which really could show that Siri wanted you to know that he is the Pope.

todayscatholicworld.com/sept06tcw.htm

What people usually omit from the forums is the mentioning of that rather holy Priest Fr. Peter Khoat Van Tran. I am in no way trying to confirm that I believe in the Siri Thesis, so as to not get my account locked, but, would it not be a bit rash to not study the Siri thesis, and to reject it just because it does not go according to one’s liking?
 
philipmarie said:
Also, notice that Siri was under grave and unjust durress from the freemasons who apparantly infiltrated the Vatican. he was too weak to speak in the Council(maybe he was poisoned?) and that, if they really did kill him, nobody would know what happened in the 1958 conclave, and the Church really would come to an eend. This is, supposing that the Siri thesis really did happen.

There is a refutation on that John Vennari’s attack on the alleged Papacy of Gregory XVII. It shows just how Siri never really did celebrate a, strictly speaking Novus ordo Mass, how he was under no autorithy of the seemingly anti-popes, and all that. This of course, if ever the Siri thesis really did happen.

As for Siri signing the council degrees, yes, he did sign them, but Siri, in a fit of love for Mary Immaculate said: we will not be bound by these decrees. Notice that he used we, which really could show that Siri wanted you to know that he is the Pope.

todayscatholicworld.com/sept06tcw.htm

What people usually omit from the forums is the mentioning of that rather holy Priest Fr. Peter Khoat Van Tran. I am in no way trying to confirm that I believe in the Siri Thesis, so as to not get my account locked, but, would it not be a bit rash to not study the Siri thesis, and to reject it just because it does not go according to one’s liking?
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Trust in God is vey important here.

“The gates of hell shall not prevail”

The Peace of Christ to all,

bill
 
I find it quite interesting that with every breath our interlocutor here maintains that he is not a supporter of the Siri Thesis. He began by saying he was not going to say one way or the other, then he adamantly denied that he supported it. Interestingly still is the fact that no one ever prodded him on whether he supported this thesis. Further, he always says something about “getting locked for sedevacantism.” If you aren’t a supporter of the thesis, why worry about getting locked? Methinks there is a guilty conscience at work. Not that I can know that completely, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

-ACEGC
 
edward_george said:
I find it quite interesting that with every breath our interlocutor here maintains that he is not a supporter of the Siri Thesis. He began by saying he was not going to say one way or the other, then he adamantly denied that he supported it. Interestingly still is the fact that no one ever prodded him on whether he supported this thesis. Further, he always says something about “getting locked for sedevacantism.” If you aren’t a supporter of the thesis, why worry about getting locked? Methinks there is a guilty conscience at work. Not that I can know that completely, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

-ACEGC
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What! Call me my lawyer! Ok, I am justt joking! But what I say about fearing of getting locked is because that, one of my friends declared on this same forum that he believes in the Siri thesis… his account got locked for sedevacantism. I do not mean to draw others away from the forum but, I think it is unjust as I have already said in one of my posts how the Siri thesis supporters are sedevacantists. Always mantaining that I in no way decalred that I support it. Just do not be unjust. I am acting here like one who is a judge, a prosecutor, one who is a sort of skeptic.
 
philipmarie said:
If it was made to make distrust among Catholics, why would he(Mr. David Hobson), spend so much money on his websites? Why would he go to all that trouble to prove a point which, according to you, is false? Why would he even bother?.
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Websites aren’t very expensive today and some are even free. Some people like Mr Hobson believe strange things and so he tries to share his views with others.
 
KC91 said:
Websites aren’t very expensive today and some are even free. Some people like Mr Hobson believe strange things and so he tries to share his views with others.
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Joke: the first cookbook ever made was called:* The boke of coking.* Does that mean that the moon, should really be called the ‘mone’? that us blokes, should really be called ‘blooks’?

I do not hink Mr. Hobsons websites are free of course. If they were, they would like one of those websites which go under either freewebs, or geocities, and the like. And what I here speak is not about the websites, but about the material he is showing. He even has a letter made by Cardinal Siri, a ton load of material, some very old books and holy cards which can be viewed from his awesome website, and other such things. Also, I mean not to be severe at all you know, but the way you put it, ‘sharing’, he lloks like he is trying to be a nice guy, trying to trick us into believing him. But, I do not think this the point. He is trying to be like the Apostles, preaching something which he believes in.
 
Sorry but even if the site is probably not free it does not seem to be costing Mr Hobsons a lot of money considering that big files are not available for download.

The part of his ‘todayscatholicworld’ site that deals with Cardinal Siri, ‘thepopeinred’ looks definetly like it wants to stir up feelings among Catholics considering that it slanders Cardinals, calls John XXIII an antipope and has false interepretations of apparations, etc.
 
KC91 said:
Sorry but even if the site is probably not free it does not seem to be costing Mr Hobsons a lot of money considering that big files are not available for download.

The part of his ‘todayscatholicworld’ site that deals with Cardinal Siri, ‘thepopeinred’ looks definetly like it wants to stir up feelings among Catholics considering that it slanders Cardinals, calls John XXIII an antipope and has false interepretations of apparations, etc.
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In Mary Immaculate,

The point is, not how much it costs but what it is showing, you know? I mean, I bought a pet dog, who cares how much it cost me? Let me just pat it!

I am going to be severe but, if it really does it the way you put it, it would be looking alot diffirent from what it now is. This, “stirring up feelings” is done normally by those Fundamentalists. Just look at that website ‘jesusissavior.com’ and ‘jesusislord’; They are so full of deceit and anti-catholicsm, they even cite horrible maligant lies about the catholics. And you are telling half-truths! Please tell me the truth, it does not slander Cardinals, it just tries to reveal who they really are. I dare you, even though I never said that I am a Siri thesis supporter, to give me a link which really does show it slandering Cardinals and other prealtes and I am sure I can debunk it.

And when it call ‘JohnXXIII’ an anti-pope, it just says it because he[Mr.Hobson] really does think that he is an anti-pope. He cannot call somebody who is bad, good. Nor can he, to prove something, be reserved about it. As for interpreting private revelation wrongly, please tell me which revelation he is interpreting wrongly, as his revelations really do show very, very explicit material. Ok? Do not lie as lying is a sin.
 
In the Immaculate Heart of Mary,

Why did not that John Vennari, or that Nicholas Gruner,or the intelectually dishonest Atila S. Giumarez with their Tradition, Catholic Family news, the remnant, Traditioninaction, and other such traditional websites not speak about the Siri Thesis story and how Fr. Peter Khoat Van tran found the supposedely ‘Pope in exile’. Why not? Because in their pride and cowardice, they pretended to be ignorant of it so as to not lose money and to not take a heavier burden upon themselves.

Lokk at that Father Gruner with his autobiography and his false fatima message(the message which gruner is trying to transmit has nothing to do with the real message of Our Blessed Lady. Our Lady speaks of in the third secret that the Apostosy will begin at the top); look at that tradition in action and their proud, luxurious air. They think that by being severe, they are prevailing over the whole of Christndom; instead of bringing other to traditional Catholicsm, they bring them away from it. Our Lady told Saint John Bosco that: It is with kindness and gentleness that you must win these children back to God. You must teach them the ugliness of sin and the beauty of virtue. See? How simple is that? But the above quoted website seems to inspire other into severity.

Do not be drawn away from traditional Catholicsm just because you see the majority of it rather severe. They do not know what they are doing. I believe that traditional Catholicsm is the truth; and not according to the way of Gruner, Vennari, the SSPX, the Remnant, and a whole host of other, (un-)traditional websites. To tell the whole truth with whole sincereity, the only websites which I found that really revealed pure, traditional Catholicsm are the websites of Mr. Hobson and the great, Eclipseofthechurch. Although as to the Siri Thesis…???
 
philipmarie said:
I am going to be severe but, if it really does it the way you put it, it would be looking alot diffirent from what it now is. This, “stirring up feelings” is done normally by those Fundamentalists. Just look at that website ‘jesusissavior.com’ and ‘jesusislord’; They are so full of deceit and anti-catholicsm, they even cite horrible maligant lies about the catholics. And you are telling half-truths! Please tell me the truth, it does not slander Cardinals, it just tries to reveal who they really are. I dare you, even though I never said that I am a Siri thesis supporter, to give me a link which really does show it slandering Cardinals and other prealtes and I am sure I can debunk it.

And when it call ‘JohnXXIII’ an anti-pope, it just says it because he[Mr.Hobson] really does think that he is an anti-pope. He cannot call somebody who is bad, good. Nor can he, to prove something, be reserved about it. As for interpreting private revelation wrongly, please tell me which revelation he is interpreting wrongly, as his revelations really do show very, very explicit material. Ok? Do not lie as lying is a sin.
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Yes the site is not stirring up feelings in the way that Protestant Fundamentalists attack Catholics but it stirs up feelings in the way that it makes claims about ecclesiastical affairs that are not recognised by the Church.

Here is a quote from that site attacking a Cardinal
“Cardinal” Tisserant, Freemason and Dean (Head) of the 1958 Conclave
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And also when Mr Hobson calls John XIII an ‘antipope’ he places himself against the Pope and Church’s decision as in 2000 John XIII was beautified.
 
KC91 said:
Yes the site is not stirring up feelings in the way that Protestant Fundamentalists attack Catholics but it stirs up feelings in the way that it makes claims about ecclesiastical affairs that are not recognised by the Church. .
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When you say that ‘are not recognized by the Church’; if the Siri thesis was true, the alleged false church would not show that it is run by Masons, as it would lose it’s power and esteem and the Maons plot would be uncovered and ruined.
KC91 said:
Here is a quote from that site attacking a Cardinal.
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“Cardinal” Tisserant, Freemason and Dean (Head) of the 1958 Conclave

I am sorry but,(general laughter); it is not slandering the Cardinal, I have already told you that. This is slandering: I am the ugliest and the most silly person who has ever existed.

They were not slandering, they were just trying to reveal who he truly was.
KC91 said:
And also when Mr Hobson calls John XIII an ‘antipope’ he places himself against the Pope and Church’s decision as in 2000 John XIII was beautified.
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I think you meant beatified, not beautified! And when he calls him[john xxiii] an anti-pope, he is calling him that because he thinks he really is an anti-pope as I have said. But, let us say that John XXIII truly was an anti-pope; who beatified the anti-pope? The alleged false church which accepted the alleged false Mass, thats what. And he was beatified by another supposed anti-pope, who happened to be John Paul II. Always suposing that the Siri thesis is true.

I mean to support no one(let us pretend that I am not supporting the Siri thesis), but John XXIII really was going against church tradition by adopting modernistic thinking(he was a supporter of an italioan modernist who was excommunicated). Why would the Holy Spirit choose a heretical Cardinal? I know that there were some pretty bad and impure Popes, but they werwe not heretics. Maybe one of the reasons supporting the Siri Thesis could be that the Holy Ghost chose Siri the most orthodox Cardinal there ever was(always supposing that the Siri thesis could have happened).
 
for all i read and understand, connecting “DOTS” was not really easy, especially if you’re trying to be a devout catholic. you have to go back in time, read history of the faith and compare it for these present callous Vatican 2 props. one of the facts is that mind boggling truth about the pictures of Sr.Lucia of Fatima, if you’re a normal person, you’ll see that there is really an imposter. (WHY??? “they” have to do that?), second is the deliberate destruction of the Holy Latin Mass. tears fell, when i opened up and see the True Catholic Mass celebrated before 1960s (the start of Evil conquering almost everything in our lives, media, papers, etc.)(thanks to those people who uploaded old videos, God bless you). there is total difference in the consecration of the Body and Blood of our Savior and God Jesus Christ. but i still believe in His words that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (this is what Our Lord meant when He said it, that His own church will not be overcome by Lucifer who had already taken the seat of peter, long before we knew it. the Lord our God Jesus Christ has a Great plan but many will suffer like cardinal Siri, the true Pope! we believe and no one can take that away because Truth speaks in our hearts).
 
WARNING! Do not be fooled. Do your diligent research before submitting to any claim, especially to the papacy. Demand proof of ordination and documents leading to the papacy before doing anything else. In this diabolical times, papacy in exile is not enough to be recognized as such.

There are doubts about “Father” Tran Van Khoat. His claim to the papacy in exile is highly questionable. One example is due to his past and present involvement with the Viet Nam communist government in building a hospital under Keystone corporation. Due to lack of investors, he is trying to sell it incomplete for $70 million. One questions why would a Catholic priest be involve in such business instead of caring for souls? Is his worldly business caused him to be absent in his “priestly” duties, thus the papacy in exile excuse comes in handy and conveniently explains his physical absence in the Catholic community?
Here are some pictures of him in exile, wheeling and dealing in Viet Nam. The site is in Vietnamese, please scroll down for pictures. The article talks about Dr. Tran Van Khoat and the Keystone hospital project where he is the leader of. Compare these pictures with “Father” Tran Van Khoat on google search.

Above all, demand proof of his ordination and ascent to papacy.

vhdn.vn/chong-tieu-cuc/benh-vien-hoa-ky—bai-hoc-cay-dang-ve-thu-hoi-dat-cho-cac-du-an-kinh-te-tu-nhan-ky-3/idt112/nid1345.htm
 
This post makes a case against Siri thesis
betrayedcatholics.com/articles/8-14-gregory-xviii-yet-another-means-of-deceiving-the-elect/
We also know that the great cardinal Siri did not accept his election to the papacy which he had to do if he was to officially be entrusted to the office of the papacy and recognized as an official pope. Yes he was elected but he backed down before accepting. Cardinal Giuseppe Siri also publicly said that the pope was the valid pope.(nonetheless not very solid popes like those of the pre-Vatican 2 period)Never forget that Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against to church.(They may appear to prevail but in the end the immaculate heart of Mary will triumph)
 
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