Pope institutes commission to study the diaconate of women

[Gertabelle]

Interesting banter… considering the Vatican hasn’t even opened up the possibility of women being ordained.

I’ll see if I can find a little prize in my classroom treasure box for whoever racks up the most moot points by the end of this thread.:yeah_me:

Of course, moot points or not, I have absolutely been following the conversation. What does that say about me?!

Carry on.

 

[gilliam]

**Editors of America Magazine call for the ordination of women deacons. **

I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae,” wrote St. Paul in the Letter to the Romans (16:1). What did Paul mean when he referred to Phoebe as a deacon? What kind of diakonos was she? How did she serve the church? Was she ordained as a deacon? And if so, what did her ordination mean? These questions, which may once have seemed arcane, have taken on greater urgency in the wake of Pope Francis’ recent decision to appoint a commission to study the historicity of women deacons.

We should note that the ordination of women to the priesthood is not under consideration. In “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis,” the apostolic letter promulgated by St. John Paul II in 1994, which Pope Francis has endorsed on several occasions, the late pontiff declared “definitively” that only men can be ordained to the priesthood. While St. John Paul II made no definitive pronouncement on the separate question of women deacons, the apostolic letter forestalled consideration of the issue in some quarters out of concern that discussion of women deacons would inevitably lead to talk of the ordination of women to the priesthood. We welcome Pope Francis’ decision to reopen the question of women deacons, which manifests his faith in the Holy Spirit to guide the discernment of the people of God.

This is not the first time in recent history that the Vatican has examined the role of deacons. In 2002 the International Theological Commission concluded a study of the diaconate that included commentary specific to women deacons. For example, the document concluded that in Phoebe’s case, the Greek word diakonos was meant in the broadest sense, as “one who serves.” The commission noted that “the deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the ancient Church—as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised—were not purely and simply equivalent to the [male] deacons.”

At the same time, the commission said that “there is a clear distinction between the ministries of the bishop and the priests on the one hand and the diaconal ministry on the other.” In other words, while all three are sacred orders, essential differences among them may allow for women deacons. In the words of Bishop Emil Wcela (see America, 10/1/12), the commission left “the ordination of women to the diaconate an open question.”

americamagazine.org/issue/commending-phoebe

 

[Usige]

**Editors of America Magazine call for the ordination of women deacons. **

Not really news. America Magazine is the (slightly) less liberal sister of National Catholic Reporter. It would really have been surprising if NCR, Crux, and America Magazine didn’t support female ordination.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Not really news. America Magazine is the (slightly) less liberal sister of National Catholic Reporter. It would really have been surprising if NCR, Crux, and America Magazine didn’t support female ordination.

Isn’t America a Jesuit magazine? I seem to recall the Pope having an affinity for it and the Jesuits who run it.

 

[Usige]

Isn’t America a Jesuit magazine? I seem to recall the Pope having an affinity for it and the Jesuits who run it.

Yes it is a Jesuit ran magazine. It is also a magazine that was forced to remove one of its editors 10 or 15 years ago under pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith over editorials that supported positions contrary to Church teaching. They have always published articles with opposing view points, but have tended to lean liberal. The have been better about outright disagreement with magisterial teaching, but they certainly don’t propose more traditional possitions. If you read the comboxs they tend to read like NCR.

I have no clue what the Pope prefers to read. Being a Jesuit I am not suprised if he reads a magazine published by his brethren.

 

[phil19034]

Yes it is a Jesuit ran magazine. It is also a magazine that was forced to remove one of its editors 10 or 15 years ago under pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith over editorials that supported positions contrary to Church teaching. They have always published articles with opposing view points, but have tended to lean liberal. The have been better about outright disagreement with magisterial teaching, but they certainly don’t propose more traditional possitions. If you read the comboxs they tend to read like NCR.

I have no clue what the Pope prefers to read. Being a Jesuit I am not suprised if he reads a magazine published by his brethren.

But also, I think it is fair to say that all Jesuits are not the same as the stereotypical American Jesuits. Also, there are some traditional Jesuits too, like Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J. and Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.

ncregister.com/blog/reilly/american-jesuits-are-in-a-free-fall-and-the-crisis-is-getting-worse

 

[ComplineSanFran]

But also, I think it is fair to say that all Jesuits are not the same as the stereotypical American Jesuits. Also, there are some traditional Jesuits too, like Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J. and Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.

/QUOTE]

Without making too fine a point, my experience has been that Jesuits in the US are more like those involved with America than with with Fr Fesseio.

I read Fr James Martin, SJ. He is progressive, I realize, but he is also very good at presenting things (such as this article in America) in a neutral way and encouraging civil dialogues. People do get heated however and he is skilled at demanding civility.

Fr Tom Reese, SJ is another excellent person I follow.

 

[Usige]

But also, I think it is fair to say that all Jesuits are not the same as the stereotypical American Jesuits. Also, there are some traditional Jesuits too, like Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J. and Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.

ncregister.com/blog/reilly/american-jesuits-are-in-a-free-fall-and-the-crisis-is-getting-worse

Oh, I’d agree. I’m not the “Jesuits are protestants in disguise” type. I know many Franciscans and Dominicans that lean liberal, but also those of the same orders that tend to be theologically conservative. Perhaps, as an order, Jesuits tend to lean more theologically liberal because they have a greater association with US higher education which skews strongly away from more conservative ideologies. I don’t think America Magazine’s outlook is specifically because they are Jesuits, but suspect it goes more toward their readership and potentially their location in NYC.

It’s also possible that I simply only run across articles from them that are theologically liberal without reading contrasting counter pieces. I’ve just never been able to shake a feeling that even unbiased pieces still weigh towards the left.

 

[Corki]

Isn’t America a Jesuit magazine? I seem to recall the Pope having an affinity for it and the Jesuits who run it.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a radically progressive magazine that presents a view of the Church that is based on a progressive agenda, not on actual Church teaching or Church history. In recent history, they even had their editor removed for promoting dissention.

 

[phil19034]

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a radically progressive magazine that presents a view of the Church that is based on a progressive agenda, not on actual Church teaching or Church history. In recent history, they even had their editor removed for promoting dissention.

I believe, based on its name and the name of the publisher: America Press, that America Magazine was founded by Jesuits who were influenced by Americanism.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I believe, based on its name and the name of the publisher: America Press, that America Magazine was founded by Jesuits who were influenced by Americanism.

Or who were part of the American provinces.

 

[Paganus]

But also, I think it is fair to say that all Jesuits are not the same as the stereotypical American Jesuits. Also, there are some traditional Jesuits too, like Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J.

Fr. Pacwa is an interesting case. His book “Catholics and the New Age” describes his experiences as a seminarian and are quite startling.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

My ecclesiology professor assures me that there are religious permanent deacons, but I have never actually met one. I would assume it is for similar reasons that you rarely see a secular deacon that is not married or a widower. In the case or a religious perhaps they simply feel their religious vocation serves similar needs as the diaconate?

I have no proof (having never met one), but I would suspect that this would only be in active orders like the Franciscans. I’d have to think of how a permanent deacon would live out their ministry in a cloistered/contemplative order. That being said, it is always possible that a friar that was on the path to priesthood might stop after being ordained to the diaconate. While we often treat a transitional and permanent deacon as related, but different beasts, they are no different from a sacramental standpoint.

Assuredly, I have encountered Religious who are permanent deacons over the years. More in the earlier years of the restoration but not exclusively so.

The Religious Deacons I know who are friars have served in a number of capacities, both internal to their community as well as in assignment to one of the parishes staffed by friars.

The monks I have known who were permanent deacons fulfilled their diaconal ministry in the context of their monastic life…they had their work assignment, such as secretary to the abbot…and they exercised their liturgical functions at the daily conventual Mass, functioning actually on a daily basis and therefore more so than any parish in which I had a deacon assisting me, unless he was transitional and residing therefore in the rectory.

 

[Rosebud77]

Was remembering this

churchofengland.org/media/35581/deaconesses.pdf

and this

recdss.org/

Surely no real reason why not within the Catholic Church?

 

[OraLabora]

Assuredly, I have encountered Religious who are permanent deacons over the years. More in the earlier years of the restoration but not exclusively so.

The Religious Deacons I know who are friars have served in a number of capacities, both internal to their community as well as in assignment to one of the parishes staffed by friars.

The monks I have known who were permanent deacons fulfilled their diaconal ministry in the context of their monastic life…they had their work assignment, such as secretary to the abbot…and they exercised their liturgical functions at the daily conventual Mass, functioning actually on a daily basis and therefore more so than any parish in which I had a deacon assisting me, unless he was transitional and residing therefore in the rectory.

I know of one recently-ordained permanent deacon who is a monk. He is originally from an abbey in France of the same congregation, and he had been living in a hermitage on the grounds of a women’s abbey just outside of Montreal, as a hermit, with the permission of his abbot. Obviously the hermitage is outside the nun’s enclosure which is the more severe Papal Enclosure. He had been working as gardener/handyman for the nuns, looking after the public part of the grounds (the part outside the enclosure).

Since his ordination he now also assists the chaplain at the daily conventual Mass, which is a big help to him as the chaplain’s job is rather a lonely one. Moreover twice a week the conventual Mass is sung entirely in Latin (Ordinary Form), so the liturgical role of the chaplain is quite heavy at Mass. Most in fact do not assist at the Divine Office with the nuns all the time but pray a large part of the Office in private in their quarters. The nuns use the original schema of St. Benedict in Latin (but in modern post-conciliar form), but since their community is ageing, they have permission to split Vigils over two weeks, and recited the evening before by anticipation.

So in this case the deacon’s role is both liturgical service, but also service to the community as the public part of the grounds cannot be maintained by the nuns themselves who are restricted by the enclosure; there are two external nuns for errands and such but they are too elderly and frail for heavy grounds maintenance, so the deacon provides a very useful service and is much more economical than hiring outside help.

The community to which I’m attached also has two monks who are deacons, but they’re transitional and headed for the priesthood. In the times when there was no transitional deacon, one of the priest-monks would take the role of deacon at the conventual Mass.

 

[phil19034]

Or who were part of the American provinces.

Maybe, but I don’t think so. They choose the name “America Magazine” out of hundreds of proposed titles.

While I’m sure that no one was saying “we need an Americanism name,” at that time there were a lot of theologians and Bishops who believed that if the Catholic Church could shed its image as an immigrant Church they could convert mass numbers of Americans to the Church. There were many who believed that it was only a matter of time before America became a “Catholic nation.”

What magazine name could be remotely more American than “America Magazine”? The title screams “we are American first” which is exactly what Americanism is basically about.

Plus, there is the fact that Cardinal Spellman of New York (who subscribed to Americanism) was a huge supporter of the Magazine (helping them purchased their current HQ building) makes me believe they were Americanist from the beginning.