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weirdcatholic
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Pope John Paul II said in his Will “Let the notes be burned” and now Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz a close friend of his is having them published in Poland in book form. What do you make of all of this?
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tafan
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I read a little about this last week, and one the surface, I don’t like it. Not at all. But perhaps the whole story has not been reported.
From his “will”:
The Catholic News Service story about why
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1400357.htm
From his “will”:
Pretty specific, and I would have guessed they had been burned already.I leave no possessions of which it will be necessary to dispose. As for the things I use every day, I ask that they be distributed as seems appropriate. Let my personal notes be burned. I ask that Fr Stanisław see to this, and I thank him for his help and collaboration, so understanding for so many years. On the other hand, I leave all my other “thank yous” in my heart before God Himself, because it is difficult to express them.
The Catholic News Service story about why
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1400357.htm
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Joe_5859
Guest
I like Jimmy Akin’s run-down:
**Should John Paul II’s personal meditations have been burned or not? 14 things to know and share **
Cardinal Dziwisz was probably closer to John Paul II than anyone else in the world. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in interpreting John Paul’s wishes. And even if it does amount to a lapse in judgment on the cardinal’s part – as Jimmy Akin said – I’m sure John Paul would forgive him for it. Who am I to do otherwise?
**Should John Paul II’s personal meditations have been burned or not? 14 things to know and share **
Cardinal Dziwisz was probably closer to John Paul II than anyone else in the world. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in interpreting John Paul’s wishes. And even if it does amount to a lapse in judgment on the cardinal’s part – as Jimmy Akin said – I’m sure John Paul would forgive him for it. Who am I to do otherwise?
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weirdcatholic
Guest
It’s a rough issue because being respectful of one’s will is a very serious matter.
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Vasallus
Guest
It’s not unusual. Most saints ask that their personal notes and journals be destroyed. They almost never are. The writings are too valuable.
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tafan
Guest
Could you please provide examples? I have never heard of this.It’s not unusual. Most saints ask that their personal notes and journals be destroyed. They almost never are. The writings are too valuable.
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weirdcatholic
Guest
Agreed. Other examples would be interesting.Could you please provide examples? I have never heard of this.
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tafan
Guest
Bl JP II left us a wealth of writing that theologians and philosophers will be studying for decades. As to his personal notes, it seems very possible he wanted them burned because he had never spent the time editing, proofing, etc to make them as ready as he felt they needed to be, and did not want those to be part of his “teaching legacy”.
The explanation that they would have been lost to historians does not seem adequate, in my mind, to justify their publication.
The more I think about this, the more it seems very wrong. Atkins supposes that maybe there was verbal agreement between JP II and Cardinal Stanislaw which gave Stanislaw the option of not burning them. But that as a ring of “wishful thinking” so that there is a justification of this. I can share that wishful thinking, because it seems the only way this can be justified.
The explanation that they would have been lost to historians does not seem adequate, in my mind, to justify their publication.
The more I think about this, the more it seems very wrong. Atkins supposes that maybe there was verbal agreement between JP II and Cardinal Stanislaw which gave Stanislaw the option of not burning them. But that as a ring of “wishful thinking” so that there is a justification of this. I can share that wishful thinking, because it seems the only way this can be justified.
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Pax2u
Guest
I don’t like it. The Pope was specific in writing down what he wanted done with his notes…he wanted them destroyed, not published. IMO it was wrong to do so.
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Pax2u
Guest
Just another thought on this…if he wanted the notes destroyed, I wonder why he did not do it himself when he realized how ill he was becoming? I guess if I had notes I knew others would want access to but I DIDN’T want them out there, I would have gotten rid of them myself.
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weirdcatholic
Guest
You can expect that I won’t be touching those notes or any published version of them with a 15 1/2 foot pole.
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Magdalena59
Guest
Is there someplace to here Father Stanislaw’s side of the story. I can’t help but wonder if the Pope didn’t explain more of what to burn and what not to burn in maybe some verbal conversation. There are always two sides of the story.
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agapewolf
Guest
I took a class by Waldstein (translator of TOB) several years ago.
This is what he relayed:
Many saints suggest that their writings be burned from humility. It’s a common “phrase” that doesn’t necessarily mean literally. Before these items are burnt, it is common there is a short period of time they are read through. Those doing the reading “didn’t find anything worthy of being burned” (that is a word for word quote from Waldstein). Waldstein was hoping to get to read through it too to offer additional assistance to the 3rd edition of TOB translation from Polish to English, but wasn’t able to.
After this period of time, the writings are hidden. Not available for reading for a period of something like 75 years: “the equivalent of burning” (another word for word quote from Waldstein). Then be made available.
So from what I gather, this process has some traditions to it, and its not a literal command. I dont’ know why the 75 years aren’t being honored though-- possibly because Dsiwisz thinks its too valuable to be lost? Maybe because of upcoming canonization, its appropriate.
This is what he relayed:
Many saints suggest that their writings be burned from humility. It’s a common “phrase” that doesn’t necessarily mean literally. Before these items are burnt, it is common there is a short period of time they are read through. Those doing the reading “didn’t find anything worthy of being burned” (that is a word for word quote from Waldstein). Waldstein was hoping to get to read through it too to offer additional assistance to the 3rd edition of TOB translation from Polish to English, but wasn’t able to.
After this period of time, the writings are hidden. Not available for reading for a period of something like 75 years: “the equivalent of burning” (another word for word quote from Waldstein). Then be made available.
So from what I gather, this process has some traditions to it, and its not a literal command. I dont’ know why the 75 years aren’t being honored though-- possibly because Dsiwisz thinks its too valuable to be lost? Maybe because of upcoming canonization, its appropriate.
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manualman
Guest
Most probably, JPII simply journaled quite a bit. If any of you have ever done that, you probably realize that it’s a great way to organize your thoughts, but the result is much like dreaming: plenty of nonsense ends up on paper in the process. I can see why JPII would be concerned enough about that to want it all burned.
But I can also see how valuable it could potentially be for serious study of JPII’s thought processes and spirituality to actually sift through this stuff in context. I don’t think it’s wrong to make it available for that. The problem is that there will always be hacks and jerks out to cherry pick the poorly phrased words, the struggles and the humanity of the man and play them into some sort of “skewer the saint” sick game.
Catholics who recognize that saints start off as regular people like anybody else won’t be fooled. But young or immature catholics who mistakenly expect the life of a saint to look like something from a hagiography may be scandalized.
In short, somebody like George Weigel could potentially learn a lot from those notes and be able to summarize any lessons in there well for the faithful. Somebody like Maureen Dowd would try to turn it into a circus shooting gallery.
But I can also see how valuable it could potentially be for serious study of JPII’s thought processes and spirituality to actually sift through this stuff in context. I don’t think it’s wrong to make it available for that. The problem is that there will always be hacks and jerks out to cherry pick the poorly phrased words, the struggles and the humanity of the man and play them into some sort of “skewer the saint” sick game.
Catholics who recognize that saints start off as regular people like anybody else won’t be fooled. But young or immature catholics who mistakenly expect the life of a saint to look like something from a hagiography may be scandalized.
In short, somebody like George Weigel could potentially learn a lot from those notes and be able to summarize any lessons in there well for the faithful. Somebody like Maureen Dowd would try to turn it into a circus shooting gallery.
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