Pope John Paul II

[Louree]

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

 

[tkdnick]

Louree:

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

From what I have heard, he did consecrate Russia. Why shouldn’t be at least be considered?

 

[jimmy]

Louree:

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

Hello Louree, welcome to the forums. I hope you enjoy them. But be forwarned, they are quite addictive. Whether Pope John Paul II is made a saint is ultimately up to God. God makes it known to his Church in ways that a man/woman is with him in heaven.

John Paul II had some weaknesses as pope, but you will not find any man who is perfect for the job. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. John Paul II was a saintly man in the way he lived. He showed the faith through every moment he lived. He made mistakes, but that can be expected from any person.

The thing about Russia being consecrated, that is debatable and I would disagree with you. I believe that one of the predictions of Fatima was that Sr. Lucia would be alive for the Consecration. She has died, so I think it is impossible to claim that it has not occurred.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Louree:

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

Unless Russia is not a part of the world it has been consecrated,how do you know he never disciplined them,or did you want a public display:nope:

 

[threej_lc]

1. He did consecrate Russia. Sr. Lucia even said that “Heaven accepted the consecration.”
2. The pope’s job is not to nag at you for what you did wrong int he past. It is to help make progress for the future. By the time the word got out to the Vatican, the bishops were already being punished through civil suits, and had already come up with a pretty good plan of action to reform themselves. The pope then proceeded to apologize to anyone who had been harmed. I was there when he did. What else would you have him do?
3. The logic on this is unsound anyway. Why canonize St. Joan of Arc? She didn’t restore the rift between Orthodox and Catholics during her lifetime. Why beatify mother theresa? She didn’t stop communism in her lifetime. Just because they didn’t do something you wanted them to doesn’t disqualify the holiness of their lives.

Josh

 

[MrS]

well…

at the risk of being banned or at the very least shunned…

Many popes have consecrated many areas (including the world) many times… and I am sure if JPII had consecreated even my little parish, that consecration would be accepted in heaven.

As for the figment of some one’s imagination, the revelations of Fatima nowhere state that Sr Lucia would be alive to witness the consecration.

But her comment that the consecration was accepted in heaven has no bearing on the detailed instructions of Our Lady. The consecration must be for Russia, (not the whole world), must be in union with the bishops of the world (none in Michigan ever took part). Further JPII never stated that he did what Mary asked. Perhaps he was exercising personal wisdom in knowing it would be upsetting to Russia (where the number of Catholics is no greater than in 1917), and it would/could be an obstacle to ecumenism if Russia (where JPII never was allowed to set foot) was singled out (as the Lady required) as in need of special consecration.

Sr Lucia never wrote that it occured (except for one letter which was the only one she ever typed ). On the contrary, she hand wrote many times that it has not occured and she awaited it till the day she died.

I pray Benedict XVI will lay this all to rest as he now pursues a re-unification with the separated churches, and will in his Pontificate do as the Lady asked. Even his chosen name was last used by the pontiff during the apparitions !!

now, watch for the opposing view…

 

[epower]

As far as I know he did get extremely angry with the American Cardinals. He asked them what was going on with the scandals. They replied that they had everything in control. When everything blew up he summoned them all to Rome, and yelled and screamed at them for not keeping things under control, and for not informing him of what was really going on,

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Louree:

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

1. If he didn’t consecrate Russia (and I believe he did), who says it has to be him as the Pope who does it? It could be any latter Pope. The Pope isn’t even bound to believe in Fatima, though HHJPII manifestly did. None of us are required to believe it (and yes, I do).
2. Popes don’t micromanage the Church. There are over 1billion of us.
3. Saint John Paul the Great? Yes, yes!!!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

1) If he didn’t consecrate Russia (and I believe he did), who says it has to be him as the Pope who does it? It could be any latter Pope. The Pope isn’t even bound to believe in Fatima, though HHJPII manifestly did. None of us are required to believe it (and yes, I do).

1. Popes don’t micromanage the Church. There are over 1billion of us.
2. Saint John Paul the Great? Yes, yes!!!

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a fifty-year gap between death and the beginning of the canonical process. That would give people time to calm down and see him in a longer perspective, without any attendent hysteria; it would also allow him to be more fairly estimated by historians.​

In fact, IMO, there should be an interval this long in all causes for canonisation. IIRC, there used to be. Five years is much too short. In fact, the criteria for canonisation should be much stiffer, so that no duds would slip through and be canonised. As for letting causes begin earlier than canon law allows - what is the point of laws if one is not going to observe them ? If some one is really a Saint, devotion to them won’t die within fifty years; it will last. Then a cause for canonisation can be properly opened - but not within a mere five years.

As for miracles - a real Saint shouldn’t be incapable of working as many as could be asked: so why dispense any of them ? Lowering standards is a very bad idea - real holiness should be able to meeet any test, however tough, that is thrown at it.

I think we are far too impatient these days for our favourite figures to be canonised - there is a lot to be said for the long drawn-out causes which took centuries. Some are still taking centuries - and that is as it should be, IMO

If canonisation is made too easy, it will be too easy to find good reasons to criticise those canonised. ##

 

[HagiaSophia]

If canonisation is made too easy, it will be too easy to find good reasons to criticise those canonised. ##

Canonisation via acclamation was the norm for many years before a protocol was developed. St. Padraic was never canonised - he simply was a saint and recognized as so.

In modern times I would normally be in agreement with your stance, personally I think the cause of Mother Teresa was hastily done.

But in the case of JPII - the public living out of his entire life before the eyes of the world has sufficed IMO for it to be done by acclamation and now. If JPII isn’t in heaven - well I ain’t never gonna make it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

HagiaSophia:

Canonisation via acclamation was the norm for many years before a protocol was developed. St. Padraic was never canonised - he simply was a saint and recognized as so.

In modern times I would normally be in agreement with your stance, personally I think the cause of Mother Teresa was hastily done.

But in the case of JPII - the public living out of his entire life before the eyes of the world has sufficed IMO for it to be done by acclamation and now.*** If JPII isn’t in heaven - well I ain’t never gonna make it***.

Me, either.

 

[jjwilkman]

jimmy:

Hello Louree, welcome to the forums. I hope you

John Paul II had some weaknesses as pope, but you will not find any man who is perfect for the job. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. John Paul II was a saintly man in the way he lived. He showed the faith through every moment he lived. He made mistakes, but that can be expected from any person.

please enlighten me as to the mistakes.

The thing about Russia being consecrated, that is debatable and I would disagree with you. I believe that one of the predictions of Fatima was that Sr. Lucia would be alive for the Consecration. She has died, so I think it is impossible to claim that it has not occurred.

the error of communism has been pretty much eliminated, so russia has ceased to spread error. so one could infer that the wishes of our lady of fatima have been fulfilled.

the people of china are not going to stand for opression much longer. sooooo…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

HagiaSophia:

Canonisation via acclamation was the norm for many years before a protocol was developed. St. Padraic was never canonised - he simply was a saint and recognized as so.

In modern times I would normally be in agreement with your stance, personally I think the cause of Mother Teresa was hastily done.

But in the case of JPII - the public living out of his entire life before the eyes of the world has sufficed IMO for it to be done by acclamation and now. If JPII isn’t in heaven - well I ain’t never gonna make it.

One can certainly argue that constant media coverage was a sort of continuing inquiry into his character.​

And it’s not difficult to think of Saints whose causes were pretty short, because there was little doubt as to their holiness: St.Alphonsus Liguori’s case was delayed by the Napoleonic wars. yet it took a mere 52 years from death to canonisation (The Holy See was strapped for cash - another reason for delay).

St.Simon Stock has never been canonised

OTOH, I would like to see the Devil’s Advocate come back - just to eliminate, as far as possible, all bias in favour of a candidate. I would very much like to see Cesare Baronio beatified: he’s been Venerable since 1745 - but I can wait

images.nypl.org/?id=1101008&t=w

theezine.net/c/caesar-baronius.html

newadvent.org/cathen/02304b.htm ##

 

[elm]

Mr. S.,

I thoroughly agree with your comment about my question concerning John Paul II.

No Pope has consecrated Russia as the Virgin Mary requested. Her request is for the Pope, along with all the Bishops of the world, to consecrate Russia and then there would be peace and a return to faith? Has that happend in Russia yet? Hard to understand why this is not done according to Her request.

Pope John Paul consecrated the world not Russia, specifically, and that is not what our Lady requested.

Let us pray that Pope Benedict will consecrate Russia as our Lady requested.

I am a little late in replying - like a couple of years.

God Bless you.

P.S. Guess someone is more worried about upsetting Russia then doing what the Blessed Virgin asked. Man is more important, I suppose. What a disgrace.

 

[LDNCatholic]

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

Your logic is fatally flawed. For some reason you assume it is the pope who decides who is and is not in heaven and therefore a saint. It is not. That decision belongs to the Lord.

Edit: Wow, didn’t notice how late I was for that

 

[puzzleannie]

How can Pope Benedict consider Pope John Paul II for sainthood when Pope John Paul never consecrated Russia as the Blessed Mother requested and he NEVER disciplined the Bishops and Priests in the U. S. about our pedophiles? I am sure that he had some saintly qualites about him - but trying to make a saint out of him - no, no. Louree

there is absolutely nothing in Divine Revelation or Church teaching passed on through scripture and sacred tradition about consecrating Russia to Mary, so whether this or any Pope does or does not do this is immaterial. This and other popes have done what is prescribed in canon law to discipline priests and bishops found guilty of crimes against civil laws, moral laws or canon law. There is a long list of priests laicized or otherwise disciplined for this and similar transgressions, so both charges in OP are entirely baseless.